Upper Hembury, East Devon - a GWR / SR Branch line

[The Stationmaster]

I wonder if the 'stores and lamps' legend on theh drawing is correct in respect of its actual intended use and theh room was actually intended for something else?   Stotres are one thing but having a stove in a small room containing a barrel of lamp oil sounds rather worrying although the relevant Regulations probably post-dated the design of the building.  Normal sign on the door of lamp huts said 'No Naked Lights'

[BWsTrains]

13 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I wonder if the 'stores and lamps' legend on theh drawing is correct in respect of its actual intended use and theh room was actually intended for something else?   Stotres are one thing but having a stove in a small room containing a barrel of lamp oil sounds rather worrying although the relevant Regulations probably post-dated the design of the building.  Normal sign on the door of lamp huts said 'No Naked Lights'

 

Agreed but as @melmoth noted....

 

On 02/07/2023 at 22:43, melmoth said:

It is worth pointing out that at no time did either Portesham or Abbotsbury appear to acquire any extra station structures such as lamp huts.

 

and I've not seen one in my photo collection of several Clarke stations with the outbuilding / chimney design. Then at Kingsbridge with no third chimney (as built) there is a most promising looking hut standing near to the Engine Shed. It even makes it to the 1906 OS 25" map.

 

There seems to be plenty of circumstantial evidence in support of "Stores and Lamps" use. Perhaps when the Regs. came into force, the fireplace use was banned? They were after all mostly tiny, minor along-the-line stations, perhaps rarely needing to tend lamps.

 

I'll make provision for a suitable hut at UH, there's a very fine Engine Shed waiting (H/T @john dew) to de deployed.

 

Thx again everyone for adding to the discussion.

 

Colin

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by BWsTrains
correction

[BWsTrains]

One interesting issue arising from this conversation is that in a 1921 Kingsbridge photo, a detail which I'd missed previously, holds crucial new information.

 

The station in its original form (up to 1910 at least) was in the 56' +21' flat roof outbuilding form.

By 1936 I've many photos showing the full final format, 90' building after the outbuilding was incorporated into the main structure and a canopy, now curved to match the platform, along the entire length.

 

What I'd missed in the 1921 photos (*2) was that the station building extension but not the canopy was already in place.

 

This excellent aerial photo - source Britain from above

Kingsbridge Station 1928

 

It is a delightful timestamp of life at a busy BLT around my era and shows that the extension retained the inset rear wall of the orginal design. A candidate for the lamp hut can be seen to the right of the station.

 

I'm thinking that as the "true" William Clarke testing ground for his later Kingsbridge, my Upper Hembury design should also move forward, and have the improved Parcels handling extension rather than the flat roofed design as built in 1882.

 

 

This Close up from a 1921 photo shows the extension before addition of the canopy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by BWsTrains

[Neal Ball]

It was certainly a busy day when the Tiger moth fly over….

 

I wonder why the passenger carriage is in the road leading to the cattle dock.

 

For 1928 there seem to be a lot of lorries, I would have expected there to be more horse drawn vehicles.

[BWsTrains]

If only you had the space, it'd be a wonderful terminus to model in full, so much activity.

 

Must surely capture an iconic BLT at the very peak of its illustrious lifetime.

[Harlequin]

10 minutes ago, BWsTrains said:

If only you had the space, it'd be a wonderful terminus to model in full, so much activity.

 

Must surely capture an iconic BLT at the very peak of its illustrious lifetime.

My design for @Graham T's Chuffnell Regis MkII was a compressed and simplified version of Kingsbridge, all executed in British Finescale trackwork:

 

[BWsTrains]

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

My design for @Graham T's Chuffnell Regis MkII was a compressed and simplified version of Kingsbridge, all executed in British Finescale trackwork:

 

 

That's good, @Graham T should be able to draw on what I've been able to uncover about the Kingsbridge station design. My latest research reveals it had a 56' main station building and 27' outbuilding which after a major building extension post WWI gave the BLT a station of about 100-103' length. This including a major parcels handling facility. More to follow here......

Edited July 4, 2023 by BWsTrains
typos

[1466]

10 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

One interesting issue arising from this conversation is that in a 1921 Kingsbridge photo, a detail which I'd missed previously, holds crucial new information.

 

The station in its original form (up to 1910 at least) was in the 56' +21' flat roof outbuilding form.

By 1936 I've many photos showing the full final format, 90' building after the outbuilding was incorporated into the main structure and a canopy, now curved to match the platform, along the entire length.

 

What I'd missed in the 1921 photos (*2) was that the station building extension but not the canopy was already in place.

 

This excellent aerial photo - source Britain from above

Kingsbridge Station 1928

 

It is a delightful timestamp of life at a busy BLT around my era and shows that the extension retained the inset rear wall of the orginal design. A candidate for the lamp hut can be seen to the right of the station.

 

I'm thinking that as the "true" William Clarke testing ground for his later Kingsbridge, my Upper Hembury design should also move forward, and have the improved Parcels handling extension rather than the flat roofed design as built in 1882.

 

 

This Close up from a 1921 photo shows the extension before addition of the canopy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re the intriguing carriage in the siding . When I zoomed in , i thought I could see circular vents on the roof . Might it be a catering vehicle of some sort?

[Neal Ball]

2 hours ago, 1466 said:

Re the intriguing carriage in the siding . When I zoomed in , i thought I could see circular vents on the roof . Might it be a catering vehicle of some sort?

Interesting…..

 

It’s a 70ft Dreadnought- which I would have thought would be banned on the branch…. The reason I say it’s a Dreadnought is because of the recessed doors.
 

Circular roof cowls where a later addition, earlier extractors were oblong in shape over the kitchen (usually only one).

 

Fascinating photo - I’ll see if I can work out the carriage shortly!

 

Possibly a H8 or H11 70ft Restaurant carriage, built 1904 /05. Still don’t know why they would be at Kingsbridge though.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Neal Ball
Carriages identified

[BWsTrains]

Some water has passed under the bridge since my build update of Sunday, and now here are my personal "how to" pics which got me there.

Most likely nothing much new here, just my spin on solving some typical build issues.

 

Framework assembly - my own home made corner brackets:

 

Aluminum angle with two strong tablet 20*10*2mm Neo magnets taped to the outside. One or two inside the wall as required, enough to hold the entire assembly rigid and square plus the bonus that when finished the magnets can be removed and all stored together safely out of harms way.

 

A bonus compared to using outside + inside angle assemblies is that if you're using corner timber structural supports of any sort, as seen here in top right corner, an inner bracket won't fit. The strong Neo or 2 is small enough yet more than strong enough to work all the same.

 

Quoins - drawing up and cutting

 

Cut from 0.27mm quality card, easily marked up and cut with a sharp scalpel. One picture.....

 

The card is scored after cutting to define the mortar joins

 

 

Slaters PS brickwork sheet - Chimney completion.

 

I was unsure how well this would work as I needed three layers to build the chimney design which was found on this station.

 

 

I managed to get very fine corner joints by the simple trick (probably widely known I guess) of creating the bevel during the cutting process rather than after.

 

Following the Slaters advice I scored the rear of the sheet, not too deeply that it would snap immediately then bent the two sides to a 90 degree angle and with a fine oblique scalpel, shaved along the cut edge to create bevels at 45 degrees on both sides of the cut.

 

 

It gives a very tidy fit if you allow the correct overlay of 0.5mm at the ends.

Edited July 4, 2023 by BWsTrains
addition

[BWsTrains]

Full Plans for Upper Hembury's Station and outbuilding

 

With valuable input and assistance from @john dew the various information available on Kingsbridge has been used to deduce the plan of the Upper Hembury outbuilding.

 

Key information about Kingsbridge

Many of our inferences have been drawn from the consistent design elements appearing across the entire range of William Clarke's 24 stations. For example canopy supports spaced 9' apart, standard room and door sizes etc.

 

The original design will have been 83' long comprising the main building 56' + outbuilding 27'. This fits with the 1906 OS 25" map detail.

The main building had 7 canopy supports so (6*9') =54' + 2' of exterior wall width = 56'

 

From a near face-on photo taken after closure as well as from early photos we derive the 27' length for the original flat roofed outbuilding.

This had no chimney hence no lamp room.

Other evidence points to there being a standalone lamp hut at Kingsbridge.

Photos of the rear spanning the entire life of the building show three small toilet windows in the outside wall (vs the standard two in small format stations) plus one additional larger window but no roadside access.

 

The later extension (believed to be between 1910-13) added a further 20', again derived from the face-on photo.

Various photos indicate that much of the original outbuilding plus the extension handled parcels (and possibly forwarded luggage?).

 

Implications for Upper Hembury.

At construction, it seems appropriate that the footprint of the building would match that at Kingsbridge and accordingly so, the design. Would Upper Hembury have ever been extended? I believe not. Kingsbridge grew enormously with strong passenger and freight traffic as my earlier posted aerial photo of 1928 showed. UH lacked the same diverse drivers for strong growth, facilities which might have been spacious in 1882 might have become somewhat cramped by the 1930s but not enough for a major project.

 

I present this full plan of the station as it would have appeared in my setting. It will retain the original flat roof for the outbuilding. It has become clear that access to the "Gentlemens" must have been from the platform. The increased space compared to Portesham allowed for two ladies cubicles, still accessed from their waiting room.

 

 

PS Anyone wishing to model the extended Kingsbridge Station (103') needs to add these elements / changes to the above.

• 20' extension of Outbuilding, 5' door platform side, 5 or 6' wide roadside access possibly with dock to load trucks
• replace entire outbuilding flat roof with a slated pitched roof , apex matching the Station building. Roof pitch steeper because of  2' narrower floor-plan
• Glazed skylights along roof crest, can be modelled  based on photos showing them post closure.
• third chimney - about 9' along into the original outbuilding, i.e corresponding to my internal wall there.
• Canopy extended to the full 103' length. A bridging flat section between roof base and the rear of the canopy proper all along the outbuilding + extension.

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by BWsTrains
PS

[BWsTrains]

Quick progress report -roofing

 

Following @KNP's excellent guide to tiling, I knocked together a template for Duchess sized slates and set forth to tile the roof.

 

It goes together easily enough once you get the hang of things; seen here with some colour adjustment because it was a quick shot under my office lights on a dark wintry Melbourne night. Half  tiles at row ends were left uncut and the template painted over to make them into 1.5 tiles, as was the practice, I'm told. Painting is next up to a vaguely bluish slate grey.

[BWsTrains]

Finishing the Slated Roof

 

The larger format William Clarke stations, Kingsbridge and of course Upper Hembury, lacked much of the finery of their smaller cousins. No corbels, no stone capping at roof ends and no fancy ridge tile work either. What was harder was to work out was how gable ends and ridges were finished off; photos of the era focussing on more notable and interesting features of the terminus.

 

Then the other question I had was what colour is slate anyway? And which slate?

 

All this was leading me off to another diversion to address these various points. Ridge capping was the easiest, it being common practice even today to shape lead sheet into a simple ridge covering.

Various options existed for the ends, I went for simple flush lead flashing.

 

Regarding slates, Cornish seemed most appropriate and I found this excellent resource which helped answer the rest of my questions

Delabole Slate

 

There is a large gallery of photos of both old and reclaimed roofing. Regarding colour, I'm guessing it's to do with the physical layered structure of the mineral but it seems that slate simply echoes the colour of the sky.

Bright but totally overcast day, light grey; Gloomy dark clouds or total shadow over same roof, dark grey;, bright blue sky + sunlight, bluish violet shades of grey. None of the first two have the faintest hint of blue in them (by RGB) so, you take your pick, what sort of day do you want to reflect!

 

 

 

I went for a very slight bias to the blue as shown below and then variations in darkness to reflect typical slate roofing. The corresponding pure grey shade would be RGB 149.149,149.

 

 

A bit of finishing off is required on a few bits of the flashing, things which only the camera picks up!

 

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by BWsTrains

[BWsTrains]

Following the old adage, "Measure twice, cut once" I went back to be sure before advancing with work on the outbuilding. TG.

Some things just didn't make sense. Several days ago I commented to @john dew that things were getting "Curious and curiouser" or as it should be "more and more curious, increasingly strange"

 

I had been puzzled by an apparent mismatch in my findings about Kingsbridge, (something I hope to address as a standalone topic) where clearly the main doors on the platform side are full sized, 10ft high yet the extension roof appeared to retain the original outbuilding wall tops of 9' or so it seemed. It didn't work.

 

Also the one 1906 photo I have shows a typical partially open, crude outbuilding structure with little usable space under cover for parcels handling

 

A new discovery of some 1950s / 1970s photos held the answers.

 

1) Kingsbridge's outbuilding was not built to the default 9' wall type but to approx 11', just 1' 6" short of the main building.

2) In the upgrade / extension (c 1910-13) the front wall was rebuilt forward to align with the main building at 12' 6" height so the canopy could be extended (and taller doors installed). This must have enabled a complete rework of the internal floor-plan, allowing for a substantial Parcels and Forwarded Baggage handling area.

 

Upper Hembury did not see the large growth in passenger traffic as at Kingsbridge,  but it was still clear that any 1880s partially open outbuilding was ill-suited to business in the early 20th C.

So the existing outbuilding (11') must have been remodelled but without any extension or additional canopy. This allowed for an increased Parcels area once the floor-plan was rationalised (as shown per my earlier plan). One key element was the addition of a suitable roof + skylights. The latter presumably easier and more effective than knocking holes in 1' thick solid walls!

 

Now to the modelling.

 

I've built the structure including gabled ends. Progress to date.

 

 

 

The outbuilding has a key to tie it firmly against the main building (it's sitting a bit high here in photo "2) but it will be detachable to make the structure more manageable to handle. The two different roof lines can be seen here, much as it appeared at the rear at Kingsbridge.

 

At Kingsbridge, where the front wall was was advanced and raised to align with the station wall, the roof line was as shown here by the purple line.

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by BWsTrains

[BWsTrains]

With the station buildings advancing well but in need of canopy parts from the UK, I turned my attention to the platform and what other extras might be needed there. By now you should know what's coming; first draw up yet another plan.

 

 

Having raided the Grandchildrens' texta supplies (rarely used now as they've advanced to artist colour pencils), the following items are highlighted

 

Orange line - nearside rail

Lemon yellow - PECO 420 station fencing (double gate  at the left end of the Rose shaded, paved platform area)

Grey hatching and boundary Edging overhang, will be bullnose pavers

Mustard shading  Paved walkway leading to the station access gates

 

To allow for the modest platform curvature a gap of 13.5mm has been allowed between the nearside rail and the platform edge.

 

And in situ you can get a better feel.

 

 

 

[BWsTrains]

The Platform and Station Approaches

 

I decided on using a solid piece of 12mm ply to form the base of the entire platform area and the surrounds as I figured it would be easiest to create the continuously curved main platform base from timber and also establish the various levels which I required..

 

Standard platform dimensions, are found and downloadable here:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/138479-platform-height/?do=findComment&comment=3334701

 

Applying these to my situation, Code 75 Bullhead is 4mm above base level and the standard platform height is 3' above top of rails or 12mm at scale.

Drawing on this and the various other specifications this is my planning list.

 

Platform height from baseboard , 16mm

Minimum separation between nearside rail centre and platform edge, 11mm, more for curved (I'll come back to this issue)

Minimum inset between platform edge and platform base structure (i.e. minimum overhand of edging) 4mm.

 

I planned to have 2mm thick edge stones and paving behind these of same thickness, hence I needed a further 2mm depth to bring the structure up to the required 16mm.

For the overhang, I decided the easiest way was to add this as a continuous strip of the required thickness.

 

The stages are shown following. The ply was cut to be 17.5mm from the nearside rail, this being the minimum to the edging (11mm) + 4mm for the minimum overhang + 0.5mm for the facing PS sheet + 2mm allowance for the curve (guestimate). A fine jigsaw cut and then hand planing gave a reasonable but not perfect outcome, imperfections I figured I could correct in the edging stages.

 

 

The second photo shows the first phase of the overhang buildup. subsequent card layers will extend out above this 3mm strip. (filled PVC, ex Venetian blind strip)

 

With this in place I was able to asses the tightness of the platform line with a standard 57' coach and decided a further 1.35mm thickness + the facing PS sheet 0.5mm for the facing edge support would give a comfortable nearest separation. Two layers of 1mm card to the platform top brought me to the desired 14mm height for my edging / paving layer. Once these were added the front strip of card and Slaters' stonework PS sheet was glued on the front.

 

Because of the stiffness of this strip it follows the curve bridging any minor gaps where my base curve was out of true and giving a satisfying smooth curve. The largest gap I carefully filled later but they all will be covered by the edging.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by BWsTrains

[BWsTrains]

Next up, edge stones and paving. Looking for a convenient way to produce a curving line of edging pavers, I came up with an old stand-by of mine, recovered Venetian blind strips. This time some from that famous Scandi Furniture establishment, so no doubt some Nordic pine species. Whatever, they are 2.5mm thick with a lovely curved edge and easy to cut and shape.

 

The first photo shows a section of the timber before sanding and trimming a 4mm strip from each edge. Saw cuts were then made at 16mm intervals including a clean cut from the back side of about 1mm, this allowed the strip to bend a little, enough for my needs.

 

The strip was glued down with a high quality flexible CA adhesive a short section at a time so I could follow the curve. The end result exceeded my expectations.

 

 

Next up paving. Many thanks are due here to @Mikkel as I directly used his paving method as described in great and helpful detail on his blog (The Stables). The material is a 2mm PS foam sheet, of which I bought a pack of 5 sheets (450mm *300mm) from my favourite Japanese supplier, DAISO, for the princely sum of$A2.80! That should last me. With all these savings I'm making perhaps I'll splash out on a Rapido wagon at some stage 🤣

 

It scrubs up very nicely with not too much effort and is a breeze for fitting to the difficult platform profile I have.

 

 

 

 

PS. Now I see them close up in photos I'm wondering if the gaps I've made are perhaps overly large for foot traffic? It's funny as to the unaided eye the looked fine in situ, but rather less so under the harsh gaze of the camera.

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by BWsTrains
addition

[Mikkel]

What an ingenious use of Venetian blinds! We have a stash of those in the attic that don't fit our current windows. Hmmmm!

 

The paving looks very neatly done. I suppose a little deep now that you mention it. Depends on the viewing/photo angle too, perhaps?

 

Thanks for the tip on the Japanese supplier, looks a lot cheaper than the "Forex" from Green Stuff World that I use. 

 

 

 

[BWsTrains]

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

What an ingenious use of Venetian blinds! We have a stash of those in the attic that don't fit our current windows. Hmmmm!

Thx Mikkel,

 

Both the timber and these days the more popular filled PVC are very useful items to have around. The latter (filled with inert calcium carbonate I suspect) has some nice properties for modelling. It can be cut with a sharp knife, planed, sawed, drilled, sanded and glues very easily with CA. I built these level crossing gates back in my early modelling days.

 

 

Aside the mesh (fly-wire) and fencing, everything white is cut from PVC 3mm blind strip.

[Graham T]

3 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

Next up, edge stones and paving. Looking for a convenient way to produce a curving line of edging pavers, I came up with an old stand-by of mine, recovered Venetian blind strips. This time some from that famous Scandi Furniture establishment, so no doubt some Nordic pine species. Whatever, they are 2.5mm thick with a lovely curved edge and easy to cut and shape.

 

The first photo shows a section of the timber before sanding and trimming a 4mm strip from each edge. Saw cuts were then made at 16mm intervals including a clean cut from the back side of about 1mm, this allowed the strip to bend a little, enough for my needs.

 

The strip was glued down with a high quality flexible CA adhesive a short section at a time so I could follow the curve. The end result exceeded my expectations.

 

 

Next up paving. Many thanks are due here to @Mikkel as I directly used his paving method as described in great and helpful detail on his blog (The Stables). The material is a 2mm PS foam sheet, of which I bought a pack of 5 sheets (450mm *300mm) from my favourite Japanese supplier, DAISO, for the princely sum of$A2.80! That should last me. With all these savings I'm making perhaps I'll splash out on a Rapido wagon at some stage 🤣

 

It scrubs up very nicely with not too much effort and is a breeze for fitting to the difficult platform profile I have.

 

 

 

 

PS. Now I see them close up in photos I'm wondering if the gaps I've made are perhaps overly large for foot traffic? It's funny as to the unaided eye the looked fine in situ, but rather less so under the harsh gaze of the camera.

 

 

Nice work Colin.  You could reduce the depth between stones using some polyfilla or similar.  Just daub some onto the surface and then wipe away the high spots with a damp cloth.

 

[BWsTrains]

Another week has passed while I wait, growing ever more impatient, for my laser cut pieces to arrive via snail mail from the UK so I can complete the station build. All the same, other events conspired to keep me well occupied since my last post.

 

Turning my attention back to finishing the platform surface, I've been wondering about how to mass produce my edging stones using the Venetian blind resource. Hand measuring and cutting the initial smaller stones in from of the station building was not too bad but I need some 1400mm or so of the larger paver stones. In the end I devised this routine to prepare the 88 stones I needed.

 

1. sand down the blind strip and give the edges a slight further rounding.
2. slit the 27mm blind down the middle
3. tape the front curved edges accurately aligned together, then planed the back edges square and give the strips the required width.
    

For cutting the strips into 16mm lengths accurately, a simple template was assembled to enable deep scoring both side of the strip. The individual pavers could be snapped easily, leaving a minor residual which was trimmed off during installation

 

 

The stones came out cut remarkably even and took very little time once I got the rhythm going!

 

Installation didn't take long either, just the down ramps remaining now

 

 

 

I'll give them a coat of paint and a light sand may help remove any minor misalignments which become obvious.

Edited August 1, 2023 by BWsTrains
typo

[BWsTrains]

my small contribution to this week's Pannier-fest.

 

Class 64xx no 6424 in the bay with the morning autotrain service

Class 57xx no 5775 heading the arriving train at the main platform

Class 8750 no 9728 shunting the yard

Class 2721 no 2779 on shed with an unloading Loco coal wagon in front.

 

 

boring generic numbers in most cases I know but not my highest priority

 

 

[checkrail]

Good to see the layout coming along so nicely.  Following the build with interest. 

[john dew]

Hi Colin

 

Not long before you are running some trains!

 

I fear that my old shed looks far too grimy for sunny Devon - you will have quite the challenge there.

 

 

 

 

[Neal Ball]

On 02/08/2023 at 00:17, BWsTrains said:

my small contribution to this week's Pannier-fest.

 

Class 64xx no 6424 in the bay with the morning autotrain service

Class 57xx no 5775 heading the arriving train at the main platform

Class 8750 no 9728 shunting the yard

Class 2721 no 2779 on shed with an unloading Loco coal wagon in front.

 

 

boring generic numbers in most cases I know but not my highest priority

 

 

Welcome to Pannier week, thanks for shewing.

 

4 Pannier tank loco is quite good for a GWR BLT. After all the humble 0-6-0PT was one of the most numerous locos on the Great Western.