C&L Finescale Slide Chairs 2CH103A

[Rowsley17D]

Has anybody experienced the poor quality of these mouldings? They do not grip the foot of the BH stock rail due to not having a "undercut" for it to go into. Some photos comparing them with C&L's 2CH301A which I got a while ago which are no longer stocked. The poor ones are dark brown.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry about the poor quality but my camera doesn't have a macro setting.

 

 

[martin_wynne]

Hi Jonathan,

 

If you have a resin 3D printer or a friend has one, you can now print your own slide chairs using STL files exported from Templot. Templot is free and the files are free.

 

The CAD:

 

 

 

Sample prints in EM, sprayed with grey primer:

 

 

 

Notice the wider joint chairs at the switch front rail joint.

 

The rough patterned surface on the timbers is from FDM printing of the timbering base. It looks much worse in the photo than reality -- I should have rubbed some filler into the surface.

 

The chairs normally have a lower plug part for plugging into the timbers, but that is easily omitted from the file by one click in Templot (impossible to photograph unpainted).

 

 

This is all still very experimental, but the slide chairs are finished and can be 3D printed. Also these chairs:

 

 

More info about this project: https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?forums/plug-track.34/

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Rowsley17D]

Thanks, Martin. No printer I'm afraid and I don't know anybody with one. Luckily I have some slide chairs I recovered from turnouts from an old layout.

[drduncan]

3 hours ago, Rowsley17D said:

Has anybody experienced the poor quality of these mouldings? They do not grip the foot of the BH stock rail due to not having a "undercut" for it to go into. Some photos comparing them with C&L's 2CH301A which I got a while ago which are no longer stocked. The poor ones are dark brown.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry about the poor quality but my camera doesn't have a macro setting.

 

 

I’m not quite sure what you mean. Slide chairs don’t have anything to grip the stock rail you have to glue them in place. (See Iain Rice’s book on finescale track construction). The Exactoscale ones do come with a stub block chair which is very helpful.

 

Regards

 

Duncan

[Stephen Freeman]

The one on the left looks suspiciously like an Exactoscale one. 

 

I can't pass judgment on the new siderail chairs yet as my recent order has yet to arrive.

[Hibelroad]

I believe the OP is referring to the side of the chair which is not shaped to accept the foot web of the rail ( sorry is the terminology is a bit off) . Looking at Martin’s drawing it is clear what is needed and it is very generous to offer the printer files for free. 

[Siberian Snooper]

Modelu, produce slide chairs and very good they are too!

 

https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product-category/detailing-components/infrastructure-detailing/permanent-way-infrastructure-detailing/

 

 

[hayfield]

18 hours ago, Rowsley17D said:

Has anybody experienced the poor quality of these mouldings? They do not grip the foot of the BH stock rail due to not having a "undercut" for it to go into. Some photos comparing them with C&L's 2CH301A which I got a while ago which are no longer stocked. The poor ones are dark brown.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry about the poor quality but my camera doesn't have a macro setting.

 

 

 

The slide chairs on the left look to me to be the Exactoscale 4mm scale (not P4) slide chairs 4CH 401A, not C&L.

 

C&L chairs have always been a darker brown, with the latest mouldings sometimes being even darker

 

Be careful when buying Exactoscale slide chairs

4CH 302A are much smaller being P4 4 bolt slide chairs

4CH 401A are the larger ones for EM & 00 gauges 

 

Unless I use the Exactoscale plastic turnout track bases (not E4XX PCT0 point and crossing timbers) I always use a dab of superglue in the joint between rail and chair

Edited August 19, 2022 by hayfield

[martin_wynne]

This image, linked from the C&L web site:

 

 

clearly shows the bolted jaw fitting into the web of the rail.

 

But as the sprue is labelled K&L Components it is obviously from the (very) old tooling.

 

It appears to be light brown.

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

 

Exactoscale on the left, C&L on the right. Easy to spot the difference by the shape of the sprues. I have never seen C&L chairs in light brown, 

 

There are other makes/suppliers out there where the products look almost the same. I think Len did work certainly for other societies, but other makes do turn up, older Slaters products come to mind as well as others

[Rowsley17D]

Many thanks for the input of so many.

 

The good quality slide chairs I did buy a good while ago probably from the "old" C&L but they are definitely 4CH301A as they are still in their packet price £7. 

 

While the C&L website photo of their slide chairs shows the bolted jaw where the rail foot sits, @Martin Wynne it is totally filled in in the chairs I have. It seems the mould is time expired. 

 

Just a further reply to Martin, I do have and use Templot and would not have the railway model I have without it. Many thanks.

 

Using reclaimed chairs I have managed to complete the final turnouts I need to make more prototypical the throat of my station, Derwent. See my thread for renewal developments!

Edited August 30, 2022 by Rowsley17D
Removed offer to give away the chairs as they have been sent back.

[Stephen Freeman]

8 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Exactoscale on the left, C&L on the right. Easy to spot the difference by the shape of the sprues. I have never seen C&L chairs in light brown, 

 

There are other makes/suppliers out there where the products look almost the same. I think Len did work certainly for other societies, but other makes do turn up, older Slaters products come to mind as well as others

Small point but the exactoscale chairs in the photo are for P4, they do some for EM/00 but they are only available from EMGS whereas the P4 ones are available from both Scalefour and EMGS. At one time C&L did sell the Exactoscale range as well, so they could have come from them some time ago.

 

Just had another look at the original photo and the light brown chair is definitely Exactoscale and designed for P4 as you can see it is shorter than the other one. Whichever slidechair you use, it is likely to fall off unless you use superglue and even then it can be a bit uncertain. In the prototype the chair is bolted to the rail, possible in 7mm but not 4mm (go on prove me wrong someone!).

Edited August 19, 2022 by Stephen Freeman

[martin_wynne]

 

 

3 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Exactoscale on the left, C&L on the right. Easy to spot the difference by the shape of the sprues.

 

 

Hi John,

 

The C&L sprue in your picture is labelled K&L and appears to be the same as the current image on the C&L web site.

 

Jonathan seems to be saying that those are no longer available, and have been replaced with a new design which is faulty.

 

Looking at some of the prices, C&L and ModelU, folks might want to have a think -- resin printer £180, material cost for 300 chairs, £1.

 

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08FR2Y1PT

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Stephen Freeman]

7 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

 

 

Hi John,

 

The C&L sprue in your picture is labelled K&L and appears to be the same as the current image on the C&L web site.

 

Jonathan seems to be saying that those are no longer available, and have been replaced with a new design which is faulty.

 

Looking at some of the prices, C&L and ModelU, folks might want to have a think -- resin printer £180, material cost for 300 chairs, £1.

 

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08FR2Y1PT

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

On my hit list but my main problem is where exactly do I put the printer? I already have 2 Inkjets, Laser, FDM and even a pen plotter (packed in box for the moment).

 

Elastic sided houses or TARDIS not yet invented ( I think). I do have a small order in the pipeline from Phil so only when I receive it, will I be able to compare the various offerings. At the moment my preference is for Exactoscale.

 

You might wonder why 2 inkjets, well the HP one comes with a scanner (main reason for purchase) and the Epson user-defined page length (max 1120mm approx) is very handy.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Stephen Freeman

[martin_wynne]

12 minutes ago, Stephen Freeman said:

Small point but the exactoscale chairs in the photo are for P4, they do some for EM/00 but they are only available from EMGS

 

p.s. If exporting STL files from Templot, the slide chair size is adjusted to match the current track gauge.

 

And the current scale -- you can make 7mm slide chairs just as easily as 4mm.

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

8 minutes ago, Rowsley17D said:

Many thanks for the input of so many.

 

The good quality slide chairs I did buy a good while ago probably from the "old" C&L but they are definitely 4CH301A as they are still in their packet price £7. 

 

While the C&L website photo of their slide chairs shows the bolted jaw where the rail foot sits, @Martin Wynne it is totally filled in in the chairs I have. It seems the mould is time expired. If anybody want a free pack let me have a PM otherwise they are going back.

 

Just a further reply to Martin, I do have and use Templot and would not have the railway model I have without it. Many thanks.

 

Using reclaimed chairs I have managed to complete the final turnouts I need to make more prototypical the throat of my station, Derwent. See my thread for renewal developments!

 

 

4CH301A is the code for the Exactoscale chairs, though at one time they were distributed by C&L and may have a C&L label, these are now available from the EMGS stores

[Stephen Freeman]

11 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

 

 

Hi John,

 

The C&L sprue in your picture is labelled K&L and appears to be the same as the current image on the C&L web site.

 

Jonathan seems to be saying that those are no longer available, and have been replaced with a new design which is faulty.

 

Looking at some of the prices, C&L and ModelU, folks might want to have a think -- resin printer £180, material cost for 300 chairs, £1.

 

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08FR2Y1PT

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Modelu slide chairs (2 bolt GWR I think) are very accurate but you still have the problem of fixing them being resin, superglue is the only way I know of and then there is the colour, originally red now a light grey. Now if he made them pluggable...

[hayfield]

9 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

 

 

Hi John,

 

The C&L sprue in your picture is labelled K&L and appears to be the same as the current image on the C&L web site.

 

Jonathan seems to be saying that those are no longer available, and have been replaced with a new design which is faulty.

 

Looking at some of the prices, C&L and ModelU, folks might want to have a think -- resin printer £180, material cost for 300 chairs, £1.

 

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08FR2Y1PT

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

 

No new tools as far as I am aware have been made recently for the slide chairs, some time back one or two of the C&L chairs were unavailable owing to problems with old tooling which had to be repaired, certainly the LSWR and 4 bolt chairs still use the older tooling

 

Can you print the chairs from Templot without the plug in bases?

 

Martin, Secondly can you PM me as I have a bit of news for you and cannot see a way to PM you

[martin_wynne]

27 minutes ago, Stephen Freeman said:

On my hit list but my main problem is where exactly do I put the printer? I already have 2 Inkjets, Laser, FDM and even a pen plotter (packed in box for the moment).

 

Hi Stephen,

 

The resin printer doesn't require a connection to the computer, so you can put it anywhere. It is driven from a USB stick. The one I linked to (my printer, excellent) requires only a space 8" square so would fit on a shelf. It does need to be used away from living areas because of the toxic uncured resin and the smell. But it is small enough to carry somewhere else to use. The power brick is separate, so the low-voltage connecting wire could be extended as far as you like, if no mains available. An outside shed perhaps. But not out of doors in daylight because the resin is UV-sensitive -- ok on dark evenings with a red head torch.  

 

Martin.

Edited August 19, 2022 by martin_wynne
typo

[martin_wynne]

9 minutes ago, hayfield said:

A. Can you print the chairs from Templot without the plug in bases?

 

B. Martin, Secondly can you PM me as I have a bit of news for you and cannot see a way to PM you

 

Hi John,

 

A. Yes you can, just one click in Templot to omit the plug part. BUT they won't necessarily have a flat base, the support/sprue is attached there, it would need sanding smooth after cutting off.

 

B. You can send me a message using this link:

 

 https://85a.uk/templot/club/index.php?misc/contact

 

or email martin at 85a dot uk

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Stephen Freeman]

26 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Stephen,

 

The resin printer doesn't require a connection to the computer, so you can put it anywhere. It is driven from a USB stick. The one I linked to (my printer, excellent) requires only a space 8" square so would fit on a shelf. It does need to be used away from living areas because of the toxic uncured resin and the smell. But it is small enough to carry somewhere else to use. The power brick is separate, so the low-voltage connecting wire could be extended as far as you like, if no mains available. An outside shed perhaps. But not out of doors in daylight because the resin is UV-sensitive -- ok on dark evenings with a red head torch.  

 

Martin.

OK so the use of an outside shed might be possible, you mention a low-voltage connecting wire, how low and could it be battery powered perhaps instead? Just depends on how much juice is needed, I do have a 12vdc lithium re-chargeable battery which I use mainly for use with LEDs, very rarely needs charging is this likely to be a possibility? As you mention a USB stick is the low-voltage 5vdc?

Edited August 19, 2022 by Stephen Freeman

[martin_wynne]

34 minutes ago, hayfield said:

4CH301A is the code for the Exactoscale chairs, though at one time they were distributed by C&L and may have a C&L label, these are now available from the EMGS stores

 

Hi John,

 

Jonathan said 103A in the topic title and 301A in his post.

 

Showing 103A on the C&L web site, for the K&L sprue:

 

 

Martin.

[Reorte]

58 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

 

 

Hi John,

 

The C&L sprue in your picture is labelled K&L and appears to be the same as the current image on the C&L web site.

 

Jonathan seems to be saying that those are no longer available, and have been replaced with a new design which is faulty.

 

Looking at some of the prices, C&L and ModelU, folks might want to have a think -- resin printer £180, material cost for 300 chairs, £1.

 

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08FR2Y1PT

Ooh, that's tempting...

[martin_wynne]

5 minutes ago, Stephen Freeman said:

how low and could it be battery powered perhaps instead?

 

Hi Stephen,

 

Printer power brick label says 12 volts 4 amps output. An old car battery would be fine. A 12-volt lithium battery would need to be quite large, maybe from a cordless power tool, old laptop, etc.

 

Printing a batch of 4mm chairs takes about 25 minutes, so it would need to sustain the output for that time.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

 

From left to right

Exactoscale E4CH 301A   6.67 mm long

C&L  SKU 4CH103S   6.99 mm long

Exactoscale E4CH 302A  5.98 mm long

 

I am using a cheap calliper and the chairs may compress a bit