Avoiding other pedestrians

[AyJay]

good afternoon.

Probably not a good subject heading, but you should get the meaning soon.

This is something that I have observed for some time now and it is beginning to grate on me.  I presume that most others here are ‘Baby boomers’ as I am? Well when I was in primary school, one of the lessons drilled into us was that we should give way to our seniors, even to the point of stepping aside. It’s just respectful. 
Yet nobody else today seems to know this and it seems that those younger than me are the worst! When I walk along, my eyes are scanning ahead, checking where others are and where they will be. The result is that I end up weaving a path from side to side around others that just won’t give an inch! I have been shoulderbutted in the past by people that just ignore me. The scenario is always the same; I see person approaching and they are looking everywhere but at me. Then at the critical moment, they are distracted by the conversation with their friend and they continue straight on, neither slowing down or attempting to avoid. Young females seem to be the worst at this. I have now started the ploy of slowing down and pretending to be distracted myself.  It really is disrespectful. Does anyone else feel this?

[Halvarras]

Yes, entirely agree and they don't even have to be distracted by their friends, because now we have that ultimate personal distraction, the mobile phone. The head-down plough-on-regardless mentality can be observed in every town centre. Well, everywhere actually.......

The same 'bubble' behaviour can be seen in supermarkets where I often wonder whether these people drive their cars in the same way they manoeuvre their shopping trolleys, i.e. oblivious to everyone else around them. Scary.

[woodenhead]

I learnt that when in London, you look stare into the floor at a distance and not at the other pedestrians - this stops them enforcing their own route through the other pedestrians and they have to step aside from you because you've not made eye contact and formed that non verbal agreement to give way.

 

Didn't think it would work but it does, obviously your own look forward has to identify potential immovable objects and other pedestrians also exhibiting non look ahead indications such as staring into a phone; then it is your choice whether to yield or plough on and risk a collision.

[Hroth]

Plough on, its the only solution.

At least you're prepared for the inevitable collision, and eventually they might learn to pay attention to their surroundings and walk more considerately.

 

Some things to bear in mind.

• Always apologise profusely after colliding, this may defuse the situation.
• Wear something padded to absorb the shock.
• In some places, a stab vest might be appropriate.

On the other hand, perhaps its best to walk defensively.  At least you're being a good example!

 

[jjb1970]

This is annoying, but I do find most people maintain some sense of spatial awareness and will make the effort to avoid collisions with other people, those who really are completely oblivious to the world or who refuse to accommodate others are the exception rather than the norm.

[SR71]

Woodehead is right, a little less care is sometimes what's needed.

 

As a child of baby boomers this isn't an age thing. My partner has terrible trouble with it but I rarely have. A lot of people are too wrapped up in their own world and a few are just *.

 

I can walk through a crowd only to find she is stuck way behind me. With COVID it actually got better for her. She has the most trouble with... Baby boomer men who in her words, expect her to leap into the road and let them through. 

 

I will endeavour to merge but, as you say, shoulder barging is sometimes unavoidable with the closing speed. You try to make sure the person is given a only start at most. It is give and take needed across all generations. 

 

Speaking as a son if you have need of consideration don't be afraid of showing it. My Mum has a stick and only complete **** will not make way for her.

 

...And if all else fails I have pretended to be drunk. Stagger a bit and mutter and you'll have the pavement to yourself!

[Wheatley]

Having spent my lunch breaks in York for most of the last 30 years I've given up giving way to people or waiting politely for people to take their photo before  walking past, etc etc. Walk purposefully in a straight line as though you have no intention of giving way and generally people will move, especially if they're  tourists  just faffing around with no real clue as to where they're going. 

 

On a  shopping street walk as far away from the shop fronts  as possible, thus  avoiding the window shoppers  and anyone  coming 'blind' out of a  shop, elsewhere (especially Lendal Bridge) walk fast as far away from the kerb as possible giving off vibes of "you need to go round me because I obviously can't walk through this wall / fence / building immediately next to me".  

 

Obvious exceptions for small children, little old ladies, anyone carrying something which looks breakable, anyone bigger than me etc. Looking like a  grumpy old man helps too. 

 

If that doesn't work sing loudly and tunelessly to yourself whilst smiling at everyone. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Wheatley

[spikey]

Just two days ago I mistimed my afternoon walk such that I ended up returning home at infant school chucking-out time.  Towards me on the narrow pavement comes a kiddie of maybe 5 years, with her dad 5 yards behind her engrossed in his phone.  I naturally kept walking (with my stick).  So did the kid.  And dad.  

 

I stopped.  So did the kid.  Dad finally looked up from his phone and stopped, just as the kid stood aside onto the grass.  Dad does the same with very bad grace, muttering as he passes "Arrogant old git.  How about some consideration for children?" ...

[AyJay]

I noticed that when I was looking, then contact did happen with those who were not. Then I tried an experiment, I pretended to be looking sideways at all the shop windows while ploughing a completely straight line; not a single contact. The other things that riles me is when a group take up the entire width of the path, or when two groups insist on walking in a chevron, of offset pattern. It is impossible to walk beside my wife.

[Vecchio]

So means we all missed out in our young age, giving seats in public transport to older passengers, just thinking " when I am this age, I will have not to bother to get a seat" . Was all wrong, we should have been as rude as today's youngsters, just sitting down and having the feet on the seat opposite. Not only making the seat cover dirty, but to occupy also a second space. And please don't tell me this is not happening. 

Vecchio, feeling old (as my nickname says)

[chris p bacon]

Unfortunately I've found that those older than me have an attitude of entitlement.

 

I don't encounter the problems of younger not stepping aside, although I've oftened wondered if my dribbling might play a part in that...

[Wheatley]

1 minute ago, chris p bacon said:

I don't encounter the problems of younger not stepping aside, although I've oftened wondered if my dribbling might play a part in that...

My wife  and I were  walking along a footpath the other day, just enough room to walk side by side, when a  girl of about 6 or 7 came trundling towards us on a scooter. I was just checking over my shoulder to see whether it was   safe to step off the kerb for a  few  yards (even I don't make kids  walk in the road) when she  ducked into a gateway, dismounted and  waited politely for us to pass.

 

"Thank you" says I.

"You're welcome" she chirped back. 

 

I guessed (correctly) that the slightly harrassed looking lady walking 20 yards behind her  with a  schoolbag and a load of shopping was her mum, and made  a point of saying how  polite  her daughter had been. So I'm not a complete grump. 

[Reorte]

I'm afraid I won't give way to my seniors simply because they're older than me. I'll give way to people less able to move out of the way than me, which will include a fair number of people older than me, but not because of age. In my experience most people will go with a bit of give and take, I move slightly to one side, they move slightly to the other.

[Derekl]

I can't say I have noticed this and I walk regularly around this area. If anything, I find most people are considerate and reasonably careful. Obviously there are a few less so, and schoolkids can be a little thoughtless on occasion. It is possible that the population density on streets and paths is lower than areas like London, which may help.

[spikey]

In this neck of the woods, it seems that when walking on a pavement wide enough for two people to pass in comfort, the solo walker is expected to step into the road so as to allow the unimpeded passage of a person approaching with a dog on a lead ...

[duncan]

Jist use one of these electric scooters or bicycles, they usually get right of way on the pavement, unless you are carrying a golf umbrella horizontally  !!

[DLT]

I witnessed a student recently walking along staring at his phone, and walked slap-bang into a lampost.  Right between the eyes!

[Michael Hodgson]

Carry a sharpened umbrella horizontally and a briefcase full of bricks. 

When they barge into you, make sure it catches their shins.

[fulton]

9 hours ago, duncan said:

Jist use one of these electric scooters or bicycles, they usually get right of way on the pavement, unless you are carrying a golf umbrella horizontally  !!

I'm normally quite forgiving towards scooters and bicycles on the pavement, but if I see they have no intention of acknowledging my presence I do stand my ground and it is not always young people. A bit off topic, I regularly travel to Germany, in cities there are often marked cycle paths on the pavement, recent years has seen a growth of electric cargo bikes, almost like small cars, I can see problems ahead.

[Cwmtwrch]

12 hours ago, duncan said:

Jist use one of these electric scooters or bicycles, they usually get right of way on the pavement, unless you are carrying a golf umbrella horizontally  !!

Apart from mobility scooters [as long as the user does not exceed 4mph, I believe] both are illegal on pavements, albeit for different reasons.

[fulton]

41 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

Apart from mobility scooters [as long as the user does not exceed 4mph, I believe] both are illegal on pavements, albeit for different reasons.

Yes correct, electric scooters are illegal, except on private land and the few trial areas, but the cat is out of the bag and will not go back, until a few more accidents happen little will change, in the long term I wonder about the health issues, most users are young and could quite easily use a push bike and get some exercise!

Edited October 1, 2022 by fulton
correction

[Flying Pig]

21 hours ago, spikey said:

In this neck of the woods, it seems that when walking on a pavement wide enough for two people to pass in comfort, the solo walker is expected to step into the road so as to allow the unimpeded passage of a person approaching with a dog on a lead ...

 

 

Or two people walking abreast and chatting.  Or one person walking along the middle of the footpath.  And especially if you have your back to the traffic.  Oh and have you noticed how often the dog is on the outside, on an extensible lead (itself an invention of Satan)?

 

Honestly, I think the calculations required to work out how to share the space are just too much for a lot of folk.  A lot of the same people are currently starring in the Driving Standards thread.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Flying Pig

[Vistisen]

2 hours ago, fulton said:

Yes correct, electric scooters are illegal, except on private land and the few trial areas, but the cat is out of the bag and will not go back, until a few more accidents happen little will change, in the long term I wonder about the health issues, most users are young and could quite easily use a push bike and get some exercise!

Electric scooters are all the rage here in Denmark. They have to use cyclelanes, and the users now have to wear a cycle helmet.  Quite a large number of them are used by commuters, as a means of transport for the 'last miule' from either public transport, or even by electric car users who do not hava a charger at home and use them to get to and from thier cars at public charge points. They take up a lot less space than bicycles on both public transport and car boots. 

[Cwmtwrch]

3 hours ago, fulton said:

Yes correct, electric scooters are illegal, except on private land and the few trial areas,

Even in the trial areas, riding on the pavement, or any pedestrian only area, is illegal. They are classed as motor vehicles, and the same rules apply as apply to your car - the only difference is TP insurance for hired scooters, as that is dealt with by the hire company. The private land exception has a condition - only with the landowner's consent - so use on school grounds, parks, car parks etc. is not permitted as no owner's consent. Privately owned scooters are illegal anywhere, except on private land with owner's consent.

 

I do agree with you about the unlikelihood of the cat being put back in the bag; I just wish there had been much more thought given to enforcement issues before the trial scheme was allowed. I have seen an argument that scooters and bicycles should be allowed on pavements as it is safer for the riders, which is possibly true in some cases, but the threat to pedestrians, especially the old, the handicapped and the young from irresponsible riders is completely ignored. I live in one of the trial areas, and have seen some very responsible riders, and many not...

[ejstubbs]

5 hours ago, fulton said:

in the long term I wonder about the health issues, most users are young and could quite easily use a push bike and get some exercise!

 

Never mind a pushbike, I suspect most electric scooter journeys are within straightforward walking range.  (Personally, I don't think I'd much fancy using a scooter for any distance that I would regard as being better cycled.)

 

2 hours ago, Vistisen said:

Electric scooters are all the rage here in Denmark. They have to use cyclelanes

 

Which requires decent, segregated cycle lanes which go where people want to go.  Denmark generally has these, at least in Copenhagen.  A lot of other countries unfortunately don't.

 

2 hours ago, Vistisen said:

Quite a large number of them are used by commuters, as a means of transport for the 'last mile' from ... public transport

 

Again, journeys that could easily be accomplished on foot by the vast majority of scooter users.  (I'd suggest that anyone who is physically incapable of walking a mile is also likely to be unable to stand upright on an electric scooter - and control it safely - for such a distance.)

 

We were on holiday in Portugal earlier this year, in Porto and Lisbon which both have what seemed to be a thriving electric scooter rental culture.  Every single rental scooter has a large-ish sign on it stating that it is illegal to ride the scooter on the footway.  Every single electric scooter user blithely ignored it.  Some did so in a vaguely responsible fashion.  Others much less so: slamoming at unsafe speeds between pedestrians, and giving no kind of warning when approaching pedestrians from behind more or less silently.

Edited October 1, 2022 by ejstubbs