Hornby announce TT:120

[D9020 Nimbus]

19 minutes ago, frobisher said:

Hornby's point gives a cross over in the length of two G1 straights.  I suppose Hornby could have rejigged the EW1 to give a cross over within two G2's the same way they sorted the EW2, but they would look hella tight.

A crossover with two Tillig EW1 points requires 255.5mm; the compensating straight tracks being G2 (83mm—half straight) and G3 (43mm). Quarter straights are G4 (41.5mm) and there is also a G5 (36.5mm) in the range.

 

The curved part of the point is what Hornby call radius 3 (Tillig, counting from 0, call it radius 2). Since AFAICT most Hornby locos are supposed to cope with (Hornby) radius 2, they should be OK on these.

 

The Tillig catalogue has lots of diagrams showing the track geometry.

[Covkid]

6 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

Which is what happened.

 

While it gives fuel to the nitpickers, Hornby are perfectly entitled to display engineering prototypes and livery prototypes so consumers can see that their efforts are not entirely hot air and how things are progressing.  The cosmetic appearance of the misplaced balance weights doesn't affect the mechanical performance of the model, which is of interest to most people.

 

The balance weight problem, according to SK, has been addressed in the production model, the correction of which, together with possible manufacturing holdups (the Chinese Zero Covid policy) meant that the Boxed Sets missed the boat for Christmas delivery. 

 

We have been told (SK again) that SOME sets may be airfreighted and could be available before Christmas, but I expect that the bulk of production will come towards the end of January/beginning of February.

 

 

No, you're not Hornby, you don't have a release timetable to work to and you don't have product in the pipeline to offer to potential purchasers.

 

Phew. Thank god i am not Hornby then. Clearly as a nitpicker thats me told !!! But just remind me how long Hornby have been working on the TT:120 project ? Since 2017 ? 

 

OK. I will back away now and leave it to you. I will stick to the tradition way of model railways.

[frobisher]

37 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

A crossover with two Tillig EW1 points requires 255.5mm; the compensating straight tracks being G2 (83mm—half straight) and G3 (43mm). Quarter straights are G4 (41.5mm) and there is also a G5 (36.5mm) in the range.

 

That's exactly why they didn't go with the EW1 then - it's not even close to a simple division of the standard straight (my failing memory thought it was close to the G2 in size).

[Going Spare]

2 hours ago, Michanglais said:

 

Tell me about it!

 

I live in France and contacted Hornby regarding the deduction of UK VAT when sending to an EU State. I was assured it would be deducted at 'check-out'. So, I've gone ahead and placed an order but the 'Pre-order Total' still includes UK VAT. Maybe that status will change when it stops being a 'Pre-order'...

 

It's all very confusing. I've contacted Hornby because I don't want to pay UK VAT and then be charged French VAT upon arrival of my goods in France. Even if that would STILL make the models cheaper than Continental models!

 

It seems strange that Hornby wouldn't be VAT registered in France given their ownership of Jouef - even Hatton's is VAT registered in France now. Makes things much easier, no nasty surprises when your gleaming new toy arrives at your doorstep!

 

 

According to the EU Delivery Terms and Conditions on Hornby's website 'Support' menu, as of July 2021 VAT and duty fees are included "in the final price you pay when you place your order on our website, meaning no additional fees when your order arrives".

[Forward!]

I don't think there's much to add, but assuming some poor marketing intern at Hornby is chained to a laptop and forced to read this thread, here's my two cents to prolong his agony.

 

I probably follow a quite common trajectory of  Gen X and millennials. Enjoyed toy trains as a kid (at various degrees of seriousness), dropped away from the hobby in my 20s, and is now re-discovering the hobby as someone in their 30s or 40s, maybe along with introducing their own kids to the wonderful world of model trains too. 

 

Now it's too late for me, because when I went through this rediscovery in the mid 2000s I opted for N gauge. But I can certainly see how someone making that choice of scale (unencumbered with decades of accumulated stock) might take a punt on 120. I moved to N at a time when I felt standards of detail and running quality were just about becoming acceptable- see through spokes on steam engine wheels, separately applied details and good livery application. 

 

I haven't seen these TT120 locos, but they remind me of the level of detail that was achieved in N gauge around 10 years ago. In some ways I wonder whether Hornby has missed the boat a bit by not releasing TT120 back when N gauge was still considered rubbish on both detail and running quality! I must admit the apparent large flanges of the TT120 steam locos and compromises in plate frames/cartazzi trucks to negotiate set track curves are a bit of a disappointment. The improvement in couplers over N gauge is welcome though. I'd want to see them in the plastic, but to me they look more like larger N gauge models than smaller 4mm ones. 

 

I'm probably unusual though in that I am lucky that I have a good sized layout- 16ft scenic area, which in  N gauge is just about enough to run something approaching scale length express trains of 10-12 carriages without appearing to be tail chasing. But let's be honest, put your hands up. Who really runs top-link expresses on their HOME layouts in prototypical formations, even in N gauge? I don't know anyone much my age (38) who does! They just don't have the space to replicate "railway in landscape" convincingly.

 

No doubt Hornby has considered all of this, and I wish them well.

 

Will

[Michanglais]

32 minutes ago, Going Spare said:

According to the EU Delivery Terms and Conditions on Hornby's website 'Support' menu, as of July 2021 VAT and duty fees are included "in the final price you pay when you place your order on our website, meaning no additional fees when your order arrives".

 

Cheers for that!

That would be much better than the VAT being deducted at check-out, then French VAT and duty fees being added upon arrival (all highly unpredictable!).

[Les1952]

4 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

And here I sit, wondering what's so difficult about shipments across customs boundaries... 😆

 

Having had a packet returned to me having been rejected by Irish Customs at the port of entry because "the barcode on the Customs form didn't match the barcode on the postage" - the postage was done quite legally with those little sticky things called stamps- I would say there isn't a lot right with shipments across customs boundaries.

 

In addition, when you pay extra for International Tracked from the UK why does the tracking end as soon as the item is put on the plane?

 

Les

 

[britishcolumbian]

1 hour ago, Forward! said:

I haven't seen these TT120 locos, but they remind me of the level of detail that was achieved in N gauge around 10 years ago.

If the level of detail on Hornby's products will be similar to what we expect in Continental TT, it'll be closer to the H0 average than N.

[Les1952]

 

I've taken the plunge and got my first TT item to play with.  This is a Piko Class 290 (German) diesel, which should be physically a little larger than a Class 20.  Note the droopy coupler at this end where I've swapped the one on the loco for an Easi-Shunt.  Piko use a different style of couplers to Arnold/Tillig/Hornby et al so I may go Easi-shunt by default.  I'll put a new Easi-shunt in tomorrow to see if the droop is because the pocket is oversized or whether I just picked a coupler that had been squashed into an undersized Farish NEM pocket..

 

 

The other end of the loco showing the Piko coupler.  early impressions are that with my advancing RSI and arthritis this is going to be a much easier scale to model in than N, and this loco in particular is a lot less fragile than some of my OO.

 

I'm still not sure whether the first 1:120 scale layout will be Broken Scar or Bregstadt....

 

Les

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Les1952

[britishcolumbian]

4 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

 

I've taken the plunge and got my first TT item to play with.  This is a Piko Class 290 (German) diesel, which should be physically a little larger than a Class 20.  Note the droopy coupler at this end where I've swapped the one on the loco for an Easi-Shunt.  Piko use a different style of couplers to Arnold/Tillig/Hornby et al so I may go Easi-shunt by default.  I'll put a new Easi-shunt in tomorrow to see if the droop is because the pocket is oversized or whether I just picked a coupler that had been squashed into an undersized Farish NEM pocket..

 

 

The other end of the loco showing the Piko coupler.  early impressions are that with my advancing RSI and arthritis this is going to be a much easier scale to model in than N, and this loco in particular is a lot less fragile than some of my OO.

 

I'm still not sure whether the first 1:120 scale layout will be Broken Scar or Bregstadt....

 

Les

 

I have one of these on the way to me too, I'll be adapting the chassis (hopefully!) to fit under the Class 22 shell I got from Lincoln Loco.

 

The coupler Piko use are the former standard BTTB coupler introduced in the 1970s sometime, which was replaced by the current standard Tillig and most others use. Roco use the Fleischmann N "Profi" coupler, IIRC.

[natterjack]

Since I am not connected to social media beyond the odd forum such as this, can anyone shed light on Hornby's TT120 advertising to date beyond the standard 'model railway' platforms? For example, I have not yet seen anything on TV and I'm beginning to wonder if a supply chain issue is gumming the works for a Christmas push.

[Robin Brasher]

There has been some news of Hornby TT:120 in the November Railway Modeller and the December Hornby Magazine. I have not seen anything on TV and I have read here that the trains sets will not appear until February unless some are flown in.

[irishmail]

11 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

Having had a packet returned to me having been rejected by Irish Customs at the port of entry because "the barcode on the Customs form didn't match the barcode on the postage" - the postage was done quite legally with those little sticky things called stamps- I would say there isn't a lot right with shipments across customs boundaries.

 

In addition, when you pay extra for International Tracked from the UK why does the tracking end as soon as the item is put on the plane?

 

Les

 

I have had a couple of items in the past returned to uk. Anpost, the  Irish postal service at one time would just stop packages just because the scanners could not read the barcodes. Last year seemed to be the worst, but seems to have settled down  now. There's is plenty of discussion on the subject of Customs etc in the sub thread 'buying and selling to/from europe' in the German railways thread.

Edited November 12, 2022 by irishmail

[Chris116]

Having joined the TT:120 club I am now getting regular emails from Hornby. Trouble is they all are adverts for OO sets and stock. Not a single message about TT:120.

 

If I was interested in the OO Collectors Club I would not have joined the TT:120 club. The unsubscribe link will be used if they don't remember very quickly why they have my email address.

[Hroth]

8 hours ago, Chris116 said:

Having joined the TT:120 club I am now getting regular emails from Hornby. Trouble is they all are adverts for OO sets and stock. Not a single message about TT:120.

 

If I was interested in the OO Collectors Club I would not have joined the TT:120 club. The unsubscribe link will be used if they don't remember very quickly why they have my email address.

 

I suppose that it's because there's not a lot of new TT:120 stuff to communicate at present so Hornby would rather send something than nothing at all. If the OO stuff is annoying you, why not filter it into a "Hornby Club" folder and then it'll be out of sight. Weed it out occasionally and you're sorted.

 

Why not email customer services and complain to them? They're more likely to get things done than posting here!

 

[boxbrownie]

On 11/11/2022 at 10:36, Covkid said:

Now where have i heard that before !

 

 

Well I’m not going back over one hundred pages just to find it for you 😆

[boxbrownie]

22 hours ago, britishcolumbian said:

If the level of detail on Hornby's products will be similar to what we expect in Continental TT, it'll be closer to the H0 average than N.

You seem very confident, have you seen them in the flesh?

[britishcolumbian]

Just now, boxbrownie said:

You seem very confident, have you seen them in the flesh?

Please note the "if": "If the level of detail on Hornby's products will be similar to what we expect in Continental TT"

[boxbrownie]

4 minutes ago, britishcolumbian said:

Please note the "if": "If the level of detail on Hornby's products will be similar to what we expect in Continental TT"

Fair enough but did you see my post comparing the price of EU TT models and the Hornby prices, Hornby are around £100 less for  comparable models, somehow I doubt we’ll be getting that refinement.

[britishcolumbian]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

Fair enough but did you see my post comparing the price of EU TT models and the Hornby prices, Hornby are around £100 less for  comparable models, somehow I doubt we’ll be getting that refinement.

Piko did that too when they first jumped into TT, asking €90 for a Taurus...

[BachelorBoy]

Two common pricing strategies for new products

 

Penetration and Skimming.

 

Penetration: if you think customers will be sceptical about your new product, you sell it cheaply at first so customers are taking less risk. Then, as the product gains popularity, you raise prices.  Dangers: customers might equate "cheap" with "low quality", and the product gets a bad reputation from the start, and sales fall as prices rise.

 

Skimming. Some people "just gotta have it" and don't care how much they pay. So you charge a high price when you launch the product, and make lots of extra profit from the people who aren't sensitive to price. Then, you drop the price to what ordinary customers, who do care about price, might be prepared to pay.

 

 

 

[gc4946]

This is my entry into TT:120.

I bought a Tillig starter set from Modelbahnshop Lippe for about £115 including postage.

My primary reason for buying the set is its track. Its curved pieces are 310 mm radius. There's also a pair of 166 mm straights.

Included is a PKP Cargo Traxx diesel plus three wagons. Hovever over time my future collection will primarily be of British prototypes.

[Les1952]

15 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

You seem very confident, have you seen them in the flesh?

 

I have, and have handled the A3.  It is solidly made and has the look and feel of an A3, with handrails that seem solid, and no "ski slope" to the running plate. It is also quite heavy for its size, SK saying in the promo vid that he wanted to do without traction tyres.  On the layout the A1 (LNER) moved like a Gresley Pacific, being long legged in the way that Gresley's are and those of lesser designers just aren't.

 

I have A3s in N and the loco is a lot more robust than those.  I also have a couple in OO, and this one compares well with those, though admittedly none of my OO A3s are the latest iteration.  However I'm fed up to the back teeth of bits dropping off OO locos in the middle of an exhibition.  Heljan and Accurascale seem to be the worst culprits here.

 

With the full price at £145.99 the TT loco is a sight cheaper than Hornby's latest OO offering.  4mm sale Lemberg is £252.99 on the Hornby Website.  It is also a sight cheaper than N-gauge Dapol's A3 , which Gaugemaster have showing at £172.70.

 

Yes, it will be a couple of years before there is a decent sized range- SK indicated that 2 to 3 releases a year was the plan but that stuff would be released as soon as it was ready after the sets have arrived.

 

Just a few more relevant points

 

Les

 

[Les1952]

1 hour ago, gc4946 said:

This is my entry into TT:120.

I bought a Tillig starter set from Modelbahnshop Lippe for about £115 including postage.

My primary reason for buying the set is its track. Its curved pieces are 310 mm radius. There's also a pair of 166 mm straights.

Included is a PKP Cargo Traxx diesel plus three wagons. Hovever over time my future collection will primarily be of British prototypes.

 

Any customs issues?

 

Les

[gc4946]

5 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

 

Any customs issues?

 

Les

No issues at all