Hornby announce TT:120

[Les1952]

9 hours ago, Porfuera said:

 

As I said before it is probably about quick wins, saving time on resezrch, CAD and tooling (as was also pointed out by @natterjack) and the fact that they can't do everything at once - you can't please all of the people all of the time...

 

Funny. SK said exactly this in his reply on Monday to an email I sent suggesting that adding a NEM pocket to the front of his Pacifics would only require a change to one casting, and giving some examples of tender-first running with Pacifics- including A4s...

 

Les

 

[Les1952]

1 hour ago, Jeff Smith said:

Being a GWR/WR fan I would have preferred one of the two launch train sets to be an Era 4 BR Castle and chocolate and cream Mk1s rather than both be LNER/ER based.  But I guess I'll just have to wait......

 

I would have liked Windsor Castle and Mark 1s in Chocolate and cream- the same as my Tri-ang TT train set when I was 11......    I can wait for the Mark 1s to appear and I can get the name and number plates to renumber Whatever Castle to make 4082.

 

Les

[andrewshimmin]

8 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

I would have liked Windsor Castle and Mark 1s in Chocolate and cream- the same as my Tri-ang TT train set when I was 11......    I can wait for the Mark 1s to appear and I can get the name and number plates to renumber Whatever Castle to make 4082.

 

Les

 

The Triang Castle and Mark 1s are still available, at ridiculously reasonable prices, from the 3mm Society. Why not join?!?!

 

[rob D2]

I might be simplyfying it, but in my mind new entrants are at opposite end of the age scale.

 

The child that likes trains , and the parents indulge and foster that interest . Having maybe graduated from Thomas , possibly what he wants is at least some stuff he sees everyday and maybe some steamy stuff .

 

The other end of the spectrum - 65 + retired, bored, looking for a new interest . Maybe this demographic is more about steam .

 

The eras of modelling that may not get much stock assigned to them , would be the years between the two . Sectorisation and early privatisation .

 

But this is an online forum, this is conjecture , on my part like 99% of what we read.

[Les1952]

57 minutes ago, andrewshimmin said:

 

The Triang Castle and Mark 1s are still available, at ridiculously reasonable prices, from the 3mm Society. Why not join?!?!

 

 

I don't have the space for the radii needed in true 3mm scale, and don't want to model 4 foot gauge again...

 

sorry, 

Les

Edited February 15, 2023 by Les1952
grammar

[Les1952]

51 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

I might be simplyfying it, but in my mind new entrants are at opposite end of the age scale.

 

The child that likes trains , and the parents indulge and foster that interest . Having maybe graduated from Thomas , possibly what he wants is at least some stuff he sees everyday and maybe some steamy stuff .

 

The other end of the spectrum - 65 + retired, bored, looking for a new interest . Maybe this demographic is more about steam .

 

The eras of modelling that may not get much stock assigned to them , would be the years between the two . Sectorisation and early privatisation .

 

But this is an online forum, this is conjecture , on my part like 99% of what we read.

 

I wouldn't disagree.  You go to any model railway show and a huge proportion of those on layouts and society stands are, to put it politely, getting on a bit.  I'm not sure how many modellers there are in their thirties to mid fifties, but I suspect it will be a far smaller proportion of the population than the proportion of youngsters and old gits like me.

 

65+, I would add looking for ways of keeping their brains active.  One of my local dealers reckons he has seen a difference between his modelling customers and those who are model collectors.  The collectors are succumbing to dementia in very much higher numbers.

 

Younger folks with kids- my original TT gauge layout from when I was 11 lived behind the wardrobe in my bedroom.  My own N gauge when Mr Simon and his sister were growing up was built for a time on top of the wardrobe in my bedroom- my earlier HO in what became Mr Simon's bedroom had to go to make room for the offspring.  UK outline TT should give children more of a chance of accommodating a layout, and hopefully if the same proportion of kids who start with a train set continue the hobby will grow as more kids are able to start.

 

Just a thought (and a hope)

Les

 

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, rob D2 said:

I might be simplyfying it, but in my mind new entrants are at opposite end of the age scale.

 

The child that likes trains , and the parents indulge and foster that interest . Having maybe graduated from Thomas , possibly what he wants is at least some stuff he sees everyday and maybe some steamy stuff .

 

The other end of the spectrum - 65 + retired, bored, looking for a new interest . Maybe this demographic is more about steam .

 

The eras of modelling that may not get much stock assigned to them , would be the years between the two . Sectorisation and early privatisation .

 

But this is an online forum, this is conjecture , on my part like 99% of what we read.

They'd possibly be better advised to follow the money and aim at the late 20s/early 20s are which us currently the spot in the demographic where there is a lot of disposable income looking for something to spend it on.  Yes, I know that sounds strange but once you exclude married couples thaere are lots of singletons left and according to official data they are currently teh age group with the spending power.  And that age group is very much the IT inclinede generation who spenda lot of their disposable income via online purchasing.

 

My son - in that age group - spends a lot more on r-t-r than I do and I'm in the 'over 65' category.

[Hobby]

They've already said that they are aiming at non-modellers (though the advertising they were going to do seems to have been put on hold, i suspect that they've been caught out by the demand even without it) and I'd have thought that non-modellers could be of any age with disposable income, 20s, yes, but also middle aged married with no kids and the retired. Once they start advertising for real we'll have a better idea of their aims.

[Roy L S]

11 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

Plain blue is in the first release of Class 08.  Much easier to spray green if that takes your fancy - and I won't say I'm not tempted in that direction myself...

 

Les

Me neither Les

 

The real issue is availability of suitably sized transfers for the cabside numbers and smaller items of lettering (cycling lions are not such an issues as the "large" Fox N gauge ones will work OK I think). Commissioning bespoke transfers from Fox is a possibility but it isn't cheap and will understandably take time.

 

Another factor even before that is how easy the loco is to disassemble sufficiently (including glazing removal) if a "smart" design and things clip together it may not be a problem, but if loads of glue is involved it will be. 

 

As an N modeller and used to painting much smaller models to a fairly reasonable standard the thought doesn't daunt me, but no repaint is really a "shake a rattle can" job, it requires much more care and finesse, and even a "plain" black loco involves different colours in places, plus a decent varnish layer. All very easy to do badly......

 

Roy

Edited February 15, 2023 by Roy L S
Errors

[Moxy]

1 hour ago, Roy L S said:

 

The real issue is availability of suitably sized transfers for the cabside numbers and smaller items of lettering (cycling lions are not such an issues as the "large" Fox N gauge ones will work OK I think). Commissioning bespoke transfers from Fox is a possibility but it isn't cheap and will understandably take time.

 

Roy

 

Railtec do the BR Early Crest in 4mm scale.

https://railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=2126

I'm sure if you ask him nicely, Steve will produce them in TT:120 as well.

 

 

[natterjack]

25 minutes ago, Moxy said:

Railtec do the BR Early Crest in 4mm scale.

https://railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=2126

I'm sure if you ask him nicely, Steve will produce them in TT:120 as well.

I don't want to speak for the transfer producers but in my experience the are already being kept pretty busy. We might have to give them some time to see how the pattern of demand turns out for general supply versus bespoke  as locos  and rolling stock become more readily available. Doubtless there are one or two suppliers on this forum who could comment?

[Porfuera]

45 minutes ago, natterjack said:

I don't want to speak for the transfer producers but in my experience the are already being kept pretty busy. We might have to give them some time to see how the pattern of demand turns out for general supply versus bespoke  as locos  and rolling stock become more readily available. Doubtless there are one or two suppliers on this forum who could comment?

 

 I recalled from one of the other threads that John Isherwood of Cambridge Custom Transfers has said that they will be supporting TT:120 (they're currently closed until mid-March though so possibly unlikely to comment further at this time).

 

[Ravenser]

2 hours ago, Roy L S said:

Me neither Les

 

The real issue is availability of suitably sized transfers for the cabside numbers and smaller items of lettering (cycling lions are not such an issues as the "large" Fox N gauge ones will work OK I think). Commissioning bespoke transfers from Fox is a possibility but it isn't cheap and will understandably take time.

 

Another factor even before that is how easy the loco is to disassemble sufficiently (including glazing removal) if a "smart" design and things clip together it may not be a problem, but if loads of glue is involved it will be. 

 

As an N modeller and used to painting much smaller models to a fairly reasonable standard the thought doesn't daunt me, but no repaint is really a "shake a rattle can" job, it requires much more care and finesse, and even a "plain" black loco involves different colours in places, plus a decent varnish layer. All very easy to do badly......

 

Roy

 

 

Full list for  TT:120 transfers from Railtec

 

A post 1956 loco number sheet is available

Edited February 15, 2023 by Ravenser

[Porfuera]

On 14/02/2023 at 12:39, Roy L S said:

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that if the demographic is an as yet untapped market of "new" modellers with limited space it might be an idea to produce a more entry level set with R1 curves and 08 and say three wagons? 

 

I know this was probably done to death yesterday but if I were Hornby I think I would use Radius 2 curves in a small shunting set.

 

The space saving between R1 and R2 isn't that great and more importantly R2 is the minimum radius for big steamers (and we all know how much Hornby love them, for whatever reason) so consequently punters would later be able to buy and run a steamer on the shunting set oval without having to make a further investment in a bigger loop of track in order to run it.

 

On top of that, the steamer sets are R3 so if your punter chose to buy one of those at a later date, it would fit neatly around the outside of an R2 shunter set and they'd be well on the way to the Hornby Track Mat layout design, which a lot of the newbies on the social media sites seem to like to aim for.

 

The big diesels are also minimum radius R2 so the same principle applies to those, too, in case the buyer is more interested in modern image than steam.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Porfuera

[andrewshimmin]

2 hours ago, Porfuera said:

 

 I recalled from one of the other threads that John Isherwood of Cambridge Custom Transfers has said that they will be supporting TT:120 (they're currently closed until mid-March though so possibly unlikely to comment further at this time).

 

 

Yes John has confirmed this to me.

[andrewshimmin]

2 hours ago, Porfuera said:

 

I know this was probably done to death yesterday but if I were Hornby I think I would use Radius 2 curves in a small shunting set.

 

The space saving between R1 and R2 isn't that great and more importantly R2 is the minimum radius for big steamers (and we all know how much Hornby love them, for whatever reason) so consequently punters would later be able to buy and run a steamer on the shunting set oval without having to make a further investment in a bigger loop of track in order to run it.

 

On top of that, the steamer sets are R3 so if your punter chose to buy one of those at a later date, it would fit neatly around the outside of an R2 shunter set and they'd be well on the way to the Hornby Track Mat layout design, which a lot of the newbies on the social media sites seem to like to aim for.

 

The big diesels are also minimum radius R2 so the same principle applies to those, too, in case the buyer is more interested in modern image than steam.

 

From the hints they've let drop in various places I think this is coming.

 

I think at the moment their marketing idea of the "opening niche" for the launch of TT:120 is the pitch "you would love to run an express loco with train but you'll never have space for that in OO in your modern/small/child filled house. But in TT you can!". Hence the starter sets.

 

I think this is a sensible pitch to start with by the way. A small loco and a few wagons *are* viable in OO for most people.

 

You can't cover all bases from day 1. I think they've chosen a sensible approach to maximise the amount they can sell to people quickly (as I explained waaaay upthread).

[Hobby]

Another interview with SK, TT120 comes in at around 12/13mins.

 

https://youtu.be/jedfednNy9g

[Porfuera]

Someone on Facebook has posted a picture of Issue 2 of the TT:120 Club magazine. However it doesn't seem to be on the website yet.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Porfuera

[Howzatt]

8 minutes ago, Porfuera said:

Someone on Facebook has posted a picture of Issue 2 of the TT:120 Club magazine. However it doesn't seem to be on the website yet.

Received my copy today, a total surprise. Nice article about 08 prototypes.

[HExpressD]

On 13/02/2023 at 21:36, JohnR said:

I see the "Hornby TT track doesn't make a circle" conspiracy is doing the rounds with a vengeance. 

 

It's almost as if people are determined to forcibly create problems where none exist.

A few days later, but good to see that S*******s is happy to repeat this now debunked myth, proving the long held belief that the total amount of research that goes into one of his videos is 0. The sooner a manufacturer slaps him with a lawyers letter the better. 

[Pteremy]

4 hours ago, Porfuera said:

 

big steamers (and we all know how much Hornby love them, for whatever reason)  

 

The 'big steamers' were the stars of their day - crack engines on crack express trains. The trains you would stand in awe at on the platform of a large station, or when they passed at speed through a station or in the middle of the countryside. Running such trains with appropriate stock round even the most rudimentary roundy roundy can connect with that sense of awe.

 

The modern equivalent is the colourfully liveried/branded high speed loco hauled trains or multiple units of the 2023 Railway network. The trains you would see today standing on a platform or as they flash by in open country. So why oh why is Hornby prioritising the past? For example, when is the casual observer going to see an 08 shunting anything, let alone wagons that ceased to be used decades ago? Something does not add up.

 

[britishcolumbian]

4 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

So why oh why is Hornby prioritising the past?

Because they're something even non-railway people know. Here in Canada the majority of people who can't tell CP apart from CN will know what "Royal Hudson" refers to, just like in UK with "Flying Scotsman". My modelling interests for the most part are all well before I was born. Most of the people I know my age and younger (I'm 46) who are into modelling are also modelling pre-birth periods. I know more "old people" modelling the more modern periods (90s to today) than younger ones... so the manufacturer, when starting out, prioritises the past because that's where most of the interest is!

[andrewshimmin]

12 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

 

 So why oh why is Hornby prioritising the past? 

 

Because they'll sell far more of them?

[Ravenser]

14 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

So why oh why is Hornby prioritising the past? For example, when is the casual observer going to see an 08 shunting anything, let alone wagons that ceased to be used decades ago? Something does not add up.

 

 

Ilford depot still uses 08s as depot shunters, so "every time they pass Ilford depot, going into or out of Liverpool St". (There's at least one Conflat A still in use as a reach/converter wagon at Ilford) In fact there are several hundred 08s still in service on the network

 

HSTs are on the Phase 1 list for TT:120, and Azumas are on the long list. Class 66 is in tooling

 

Furthermore steam-era modelling remains the majority of the hobby. I'm sorry , but this is a non-point

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Ravenser

[Les1952]

7 hours ago, Roy L S said:

Me neither Les

 

The real issue is availability of suitably sized transfers for the cabside numbers and smaller items of lettering (cycling lions are not such an issues as the "large" Fox N gauge ones will work OK I think). Commissioning bespoke transfers from Fox is a possibility but it isn't cheap and will understandably take time.

 

Another factor even before that is how easy the loco is to disassemble sufficiently (including glazing removal) if a "smart" design and things clip together it may not be a problem, but if loads of glue is involved it will be. 

 

As an N modeller and used to painting much smaller models to a fairly reasonable standard the thought doesn't daunt me, but no repaint is really a "shake a rattle can" job, it requires much more care and finesse, and even a "plain" black loco involves different colours in places, plus a decent varnish layer. All very easy to do badly......

 

Roy

 

As someone who took forever and a week to repaint an N-gauge Farish V2 from lined black to lined green I'd not disagree with you.  I think transfers are available, though Microsoft in its wisdom isn't letting me access the "train shops" folder on my browser.  Custom made and not all that expensive I remember.

 

Les