Track used west of Salisbury on ‘the mule’

[TravisM]

I’ve had a long interest in the workings of trains running over ‘the mule’ (no, I have no idea why it was called that), between Salisbury and Exeter St David’s during the NSE years.  I’ve read loads about the trains but learned nothing about the permanent way.  I believe it was still jointed rail until about 2000, but was it flat bottomed rail throughout or the last remaining places where it was mainly bullhead rail?

 

If anyone has knowledge of this, I would be most grateful.

[Wickham Green too]

A quick check of one place at one time ( photos of Sherborne 1989 ) shows jointed flat-bottom on the down line and flat-bottom on the up - probably CWR unless various posts are hiding every fishplate.

[Oldddudders]

While the WR stewardship of Wilton South - Exeter may have been a matter for regret by many, the high staffing costs of maintaining a jointed-track route would have been completely alien to WR thinking, and I am sure CWR dominated throughout, long before the route was handed back to Southern in 1984. Upon handover, an Officers' Special inspection train, with the DGM and Regional Chief Officers, ran through to Exeter Central, assessing what was where. I suspect Frank Proctor, then Regional Civil Engineer, would have been aghast to find he'd been bequeathed much P Way from a previous era.

 

Between that date and NSE coming into being in 1986, there had been much strategic thinking on how to improve the poor operational resilience, starting with the introduction of the Tisbury Loop, for which I chaired the initial meeting in May or June 1984. In the wake of the abolition of Divisions at that time, Passenger Business Managers were created, effectively Regional implants of the London & South East Sector, and the PBM South West would have led the strategic planning process, before the organisation was augmented to become an NSE Sub-Sector. 

[The Stationmaster]

I remember the planning meeting for one relaying job on the Salisbury - Exeter line c. 1975/6 when Dick Sloman was the Area Civil Engineer at  Yeovil Jcn.  He was rather pleased that he had managed to design the new section of track - which was cwr of course - to be laid on a curve with a radius of exactly 1 mile,  In the mid - late seventies we had quite a lot of plain line relaying on the route and cwr was normally used, at a cost of about £1 million per mile laid. 

[Rivercider]

The question as to why the Waterloo - Exeter route was nicknamed 'the mule' (which I hate) has cropped up before.

It seems to have originated as a 'bashers' term in the 1980s by class 50 enthusiasts riding the route.

In my 30 year railway career I never heard it referred to like that by another railwayman,

and other RMweb members, who are more experienced former railwaymen than me, also wrote 

that they had never ever heard the term.

 

As regards the track, it must have been in pretty good nick up until the regional change from SR to WR

as in latter steam days some very fast runs were recorded on the downhill sections, in Devon particularly.

 

Presumably when the route was singled west of Wilton Junction the better of the two running lines would have been retained on each section? A quick browse through a couple of my books I see that there was a lot of jointed flat bottom track in use in the latter steam era, though mostly jointed bullhead in the Exeter area in the 1960s,

 

cheers 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Rivercider said:

The question as to why the Waterloo - Exeter route was nicknamed 'the mule' (which I hate) has cropped up before.

It seems to have originated as a 'bashers' term in the 1980s by class 50 enthusiasts riding the route.

In my 30 year railway career I never heard it referred to like that by another railwayman,

and other RMweb members, who are more experienced former railwaymen than me, also wrote 

that they had never ever heard the term.

 

As regards the track, it must have been in pretty good nick up until the regional change from SR to WR

as in latter steam days some very fast runs were recorded on the downhill sections, in Devon particularly.

 

Presumably when the route was singled west of Wilton Junction the better of the two running lines would have been retained on each section? A quick browse through a couple of my books I see that there was a lot of jointed flat bottom track in use in the latter steam era, though mostly jointed bullhead in the Exeter area in the 1960s,

 

cheers 

There was a fair bit of CWR installed on the SR WoE main line between 1958 and the handover to the WR at the end of 1962. After the singling operation of 1967 (AIUI) it ended up on the Berks and Hants route (swapped?).

 

As for speeds, certain 72A crews reckoned to see 100 to 110 mph in the Chard-Axminster area most weeks.

 

I'd not come across the nickname before seeing it in your post.

 

John

Edited November 24, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Oldddudders]

I would file 'mule' alongside 'thumper', among gricer terms not used by railway people. 

[Dunsignalling]

6 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

While the WR stewardship of Wilton South - Exeter may have been a matter for regret by many, the high staffing costs of maintaining a jointed-track route would have been completely alien to WR thinking, and I am sure CWR dominated throughout, long before the route was handed back to Southern in 1984. Upon handover, an Officers' Special inspection train, with the DGM and Regional Chief Officers, ran through to Exeter Central, assessing what was where. I suspect Frank Proctor, then Regional Civil Engineer, would have been aghast to find he'd been bequeathed much P Way from a previous era.

 

Between that date and NSE coming into being in 1986, there had been much strategic thinking on how to improve the poor operational resilience, starting with the introduction of the Tisbury Loop, for which I chaired the initial meeting in May or June 1984. In the wake of the abolition of Divisions at that time, Passenger Business Managers were created, effectively Regional implants of the London & South East Sector, and the PBM South West would have led the strategic planning process, before the organisation was augmented to become an NSE Sub-Sector. 

Honiton's up loop was still jointed when the box closed (2012) though it has been fully relaid with CWR and new sleepers since.

 

The engineer's siding (also abolished during the recontrol) was interesting as it had bullhead rail on (mainly) concrete sleepers that appeared to be of considerable age.

 

As for "operational resilience" that's most noticeable by its absence for at least the past twelve months. ☠️

 

John

Edited November 24, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[The Stationmaster]

On 24/11/2022 at 15:23, Rivercider said:

The question as to why the Waterloo - Exeter route was nicknamed 'the mule' (which I hate) has cropped up before.

It seems to have originated as a 'bashers' term in the 1980s by class 50 enthusiasts riding the route.

In my 30 year railway career I never heard it referred to like that by another railwayman,

and other RMweb members, who are more experienced former railwaymen than me, also wrote 

that they had never ever heard the term.

 

As regards the track, it must have been in pretty good nick up until the regional change from SR to WR

as in latter steam days some very fast runs were recorded on the downhill sections, in Devon particularly.

 

Presumably when the route was singled west of Wilton Junction the better of the two running lines would have been retained on each section? A quick browse through a couple of my books I see that there was a lot of jointed flat bottom track in use in the latter steam era, though mostly jointed bullhead in the Exeter area in the 1960s,

 

cheers 

I travelled up the route from Exeter not long after it had been singled and it definitely wiggled about a bit from side to side to make use of the best condition track (standard WR practice with singling schemes in those days.  There was a massive pile, or rather series of stacks, of recovered track sections that we passed on teh way - probably at Yeovil Jcn which woudl have been the only place with space to stack that much.  and yes the track that remained included a lot of flat-bottom  rail.

 

There was no sogn of any concrete sleepers being pulled out and in any case that would only have been where both lines had cwr.  But it wouldn't have been any use on the WR as the region was still using concrete sleepers with SCH clips for cwr at that time whereas the SR didn't use SCH clips.  Some the recovered rail - if it was flat bottom might have been used as service rails for WR cwr laying but all the long welded rail which went in of the Region in those days was new.  The WR later changed from SCH to Pandrol clips but that meant brand new sleepers being used as the fixings on the sleepers were different for the two types and were cast into the concrete in both cases.

[Trog]

On 25/11/2022 at 17:46, The Stationmaster said:

....................

 

There was no sign of any concrete sleepers being pulled out and in any case that would only have been where both lines had CWR.  But it wouldn't have been any use on the WR as the region was still using concrete sleepers with SCH clips for CWR at that time whereas the SR didn't use SCH clips.  Some the recovered rail - if it was flat bottom might have been used as service rails for WR CWR laying but all the long welded rail which went in of the Region in those days was new.  The WR later changed from SCH to Pandrol clips but that meant brand new sleepers being used as the fixings on the sleepers were different for the two types and were cast into the concrete in both cases.

 

SHC clips were first used on the WR having been introduced by one of their Civil Engineers Jack Skull, hence the clips were I believe known as Skull Hoop Clips on the WR, whereas they were known as Spring Hoop Clips on the LMR.

 

SHC were eventually the second choice of rail clip for BR being the last non Pandrol type to be despensed with. They were a very good clip that held the rail well without cutting into the nylons the way the original Pan401 clips did. However they could be a bastard to un-cilp especially the swallow tail version, and the cast in hoops tended to break if the sleepers (F19 type) were used on tight radii traversed by locos with longer fixed wheel bases. 

 

The SR did not use them as the clip had to be worked sideways from the rail, so you could not clip up or un-clip the side of the rail nearest the juice rail. The later Pandrol Fastclip was also avoided by the ex SR area P-Way and by myself for DC line (CWJ) work for the same reason. Until headquarters ordered us to use it, as reducing the number of sleeper types in production saved them money.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Trog
Added F19 note for the sadder amongst you.

[Trog]

Square type SHC clips.

[JohnR]

On 24/11/2022 at 16:22, Oldddudders said:

I would file 'mule' alongside 'thumper', among gricer terms not used by railway people. 

 

And by no means universal amongst enthusiasts at the time. It seems to have gained more use recently. 

[rodent279]

On 27/11/2022 at 22:10, Trog said:

Square type SHC clips.

What is the current NR standard clip?

[Southernman46]

On 27/11/2022 at 21:50, Trog said:

 

The SR did not use them as the clip had to be worked sideways from the rail, so you could not clip up or un-clip the side of the rail nearest the juice rail. The later Pandrol Fastclip was also avoided by the ex SR area P-Way and by myself for DC line (CWJ) work for the same reason. Until headquarters ordered us to use it, as reducing the number of sleeper types in production saved them money.

Yes, back in 2004 having been custodian of the renewal at Barnes Bridge Down platform that accidentally used Fastclip EG47's vice standard clip EG49's - I decided I preferred them as unlike standard Pandrol clips they are markedly less prone to walking out and requiring any attention, if they ever did - also stay captured in the housing - unlike standard PC's. The apparent access benefit of standard PC's soon disappeared anyway following the adoption of conductor rail vicinity zone (non)working. IMHO A practice resulting from the actions of fools & idiots that ham-strung decent DC proficient aware Engineers. First Q following a 1A u/sonic rail defect became - "is it juice rail side" ? 

 

On the original Q - there are still (or were until recently) 1920's vintage chairs in the Up platform at Yeovil Junction and I suspect the rails are the same vintage.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Southernman46

[Trog]

13 hours ago, rodent279 said:

What is the current NR standard clip?

 

The green FC1504 fastclip (Purple if sheridised) used on G44 and EG47 concrete sleepers and the more recent designs of steel sleeper. For timber sleepers with NRS1, NRS2 or Combi baseplates fitted, the blue E2007 Pandrol e clip is used.

[Trog]

10 hours ago, Southernman46 said:

................................. The apparent access benefit of standard PC's soon disappeared anyway following the adoption of conductor rail vicinity zone (non)working. IMHO A practice resulting from the actions of fools & idiots that ham-strung decent DC proficient aware Engineers...............

 

Interesting as back in the day some of our staff used to sit on the con rail to eat their sandwiches, as it was at a more comfortable sitting height than the running rails. Truly the past is a foreign country they do things differently there.

 

It was also easy on safety courses to spot which trainers had worked in 3rd rail areas. Those who had not were wildly over dramatic about the dangers of having an electric rail under foot. As if it was a 25Kv overhead wire that had decided to descend from on high. Those who had DC experience were more just mind the juice lads.

[Flying Pig]

This might be of interest.  Rail joints can be heard from time to time but the sound is a bit rough.

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

On 27/11/2022 at 22:10, Trog said:

Square type SHC clips.

Also called 'skully clips' by some WR Perway folks

 

 

On 29/11/2022 at 10:00, Southernman46 said:

 

On the original Q - there are still (or were until recently) 1920's vintage chairs in the Up platform at Yeovil Junction and I suspect the rails are the same vintage.

And some of the rails definitely aren't because they were laid in 1975. (but maybe they were very old recovered material?)

[Dunsignalling]

Clip types on Honiton Up Loop yesterday. The green ones dominate, and the blue ones are used over and adjacent to the New Street underbridge. 

 

All the track was relaid quite recently; IIRC about five years ago, but definitely since the transfer of signalling to Basingstoke in 2012. The patina developing on the new Tata rail is quite attractive you can tell we now get water jetting down this far in the leaf-fall season!

 

John

Edited November 30, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Trog]

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

............

 

All the track was relaid quite recently; IIRC about five years ago, but definitely since the transfer of signalling to Basingstoke in 2012. The patina developing on the new Tata rail is quite attractive you can tell we now get water jetting down this far in the leaf-fall season!

 

John

 

The colour will be due to Network Rail using Wear Resisting A rail as standard these days instead of the Normal Grade rail that was used previously. Wear Resisting A contains a little more manganese and this makes it rust to a more red brown colour than Normal grade rail which tended to a more grey brown colour. 

 

The pads and nylons used suggest that these particular rails are of the 113A section. With G44 and EG47 sleepers the most useful diagnostic is the corners of the pads as this difference can be seen even when the nylons colours are obscured by rust and dirt. On these sleepers a square cornered pad tells those who know their P-Way that the rail is 113A, while a pad with the corner trimmed off at 45' says CEN60. 

[Ncarter2]

On 29/11/2022 at 20:59, Trog said:

 

The green FC1504 fastclip (Purple if sheridised) used on G44 and EG47 concrete sleepers and the more recent designs of steel sleeper. For timber sleepers with NRS1, NRS2 or Combi baseplates fitted, the blue E2007 Pandrol e clip is used.

Generally yes, but renewals are still being delivered with E series on concrete, on Southern at least, predominately where CEN56 is used.