DCC and building lights

[nomisd]

The following is expressed in some very basic terms.

 

I am correct in thinking that to control my lights in buildings via DCC I have to have one (or more) lighting controllers that go from the the lights to the DCC nerve centre (and vice versa) so they can become a controlable feature on my hand controller?

 

I am now open to further enlightenment...

 

 

[298]

It is possible using an accessory decoder or various forms of plug and play, but I've never really seen the point- I would personally use an independent system and use an Auduino for any automation. 

 

What kind of scene do you envisage having illumination on?

[nomisd]

1 hour ago, 298 said:

What kind of scene do you envisage having illumination on?

The two layouts in my signature. I say two layouts but its one. Of the buildings

 

Greenford Green - station, platforms, welding in garage, street lights, NCL depot possibly with yard lights, signal box

 

Lyons - All factories, loco shed, tank office

 

Where can I find an idiots guide to Auduino?

[Nigelcliffe]

Spelling it correctly helps -   Arduino.     And if wanting to start from bottom, look online for a "starter kit", such as those sold by Elegoo.  Those come with one Arduino processor and enough bits to tinker with various things, and an instruction set (on a CD) on how to do it and how to program them.  

[WIMorrison]

You can also purchase fully built Arduino versions from Arcomora and then there are various DCC Accessory Deciders the that can be configured as simple on/off switches and many can have added effects, flickering or other features.

 

Lots and lots of different choices for solutions in this space.

[ikcdab]

This sounds over complication.  A simple 12v supply and on/off switch would do it.

Are you looking for a far more complex effect?

[jamesed]

I use a couple of THESE on my layout and will almost certainly add more in due course. The Roco 10836 Z21 Switch Decoder can take a dcc signal input for the control signal only and then a separate 12v dc supply input which is what is then switched and output through the eight outputs. It does do more than just switch 12v on or off if you want it to but that's how I mainly use it either to switch lighting or to switch relays which control my abc circuit IR sensors. Using a separate power supply there's no drain on your dcc power.  You can buy a 5A 12v dc regulated power supply easy enough on Amazon for about £15.  I've added a 12v 5A circuit breaker to the output feed just to protect it and it's then connected to my 12v dc bus. 

[JohnR]

The other option is to use a cheap DCC decoder, and then power the lighting via the function outputs? Then you could switch on/off the lighting via functions on that DCC address. 

[WIMorrison]

The Roco units are very expensive at ~£4.50 per on/off switched output. A DR4018 will do the same for around £2.50 per on/off switched output 😉

[Neils WRX]

I used a Roco Switch Pilot to power my 3v lighting circuit on my Belgian layout. It was a simple plug and play job.

 

Thanks,

 

Neil

[Pete the Elaner]

A 'lighting controller' as mentioned in the OP would essentially be a decoder with different rated outputs.

I can completely see the point of controlling it with DCC. The bus is already there & any further accessories can just be connected to it & controlled by the system, then any further accessories can just be added in the same way. Any other solutions require dedicated wiring.

I would still recommend separating track & accessories to be controlled by their own bus. A stray loco would not affect any point operation or building lighting.

 

Controlling accessories with the handset (throttle) is not the only way to do it, so don't feel restricted to the number pad to turn things on & off. The command station (DCC nerve centre) controls everything & a throttle is just 1 way to communicate with it. (which is why some of us resist calling the handset a 'controller'). Changing accessories from a throttle is easiest from a setup point of view, but not so useful from an operation point of view on anything but the smallest of layouts. It is also possible to control points & lighting with a panel or computer, but you will still be able to throw a point or switch on a light with the throttle if you wanted. You can even have duplicate control panels on either side of the layout. Computer control also introduces the possibility of automation.

[Michael Hodgson]

There seems to a widespread misconception that going DCC means converting everything, not just the trains.  Although DCC can be used for controlling points, signals, lighting etc, it's really only traction control that is an all or nothing decision.  You can mix approaches, using DCC for some accessories but not others.  I would suggest that DCC control of general layout (buildings) lighting is overkill for most layouts, but there are pros and cons to DC vs DCC

 

Analogue

• simple to install
• simple to use
• cheap
• can contribute to "rats nest" wiring under large baseboard/control panel

DCC

• cost of decoders for the accessories
• but can be "free" if there happens to be an otherwise spare output on a nearby module intended for controlling points etc
• can be controlled by handheld device if that is preferred
• can be controlled by fixed switches on a control panel if desired, at cost of  encoders for the switches
• can be controlled by automation if using a computer package like iTrain - obviously useful for signals and level crossings, but can also apply to floodlighting of yards, switching lights on/off at night if working to a timetable etc.
• can reduce amount of wiring to connect across board joins, an advantage for a portable layout
• simpler wire runs can make it easier to trace faults
• if lighting is on the same DCC bus as the trains, a short on the track will also kill the lights - a separate accessory bus is therefore recommended
• increases total load on DCC power supply, in an extreme case might warrant cost of another booster

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

3 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

......The command station (DCC nerve centre) controls everything & a throttle is just 1 way to communicate with it. (which is why some of us resist calling the handset a 'controller'). ........

 

It's rather off-topic, but if you were to be pedantic and a little more accurate, the Command Station only controls the formation of the digital signals (commands) and manages the transmission of the signals that it sends out. as well as managing input devices, such as handsets and data networks.

The control of trains and accessories, etc, takes place at the receiving end - i.e. in the decoders (both in the trains, or static line side modules, such as point or signal decoders).

In fact, early DCC papers and until only recently, the NMRA officially referred to decoders as "DCC controllers".

 

 

 

.

[Pete the Elaner]

12 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

It's rather off-topic, but if you were to be pedantic and a little more accurate, the Command Station only controls the formation of the digital signals (commands) and manages the transmission of the signals that it sends out. as well as managing input devices, such as handsets and data networks.

The control of trains and accessories, etc, takes place at the receiving end - i.e. in the decoders (both in the trains, or static line side modules, such as point or signal decoders).

In fact, early DCC papers and until only recently, the NMRA officially referred to decoders as "DCC controllers".

 

 

 

.

 

I don't think that is off-topic. It is helpful to understand the role each component performs & many are still in a DC mindset of the throttle being a controller, which is limiting.

[two tone green]

16 on off dimmable switches or lots of other configurations. Easy to use and set up. 
 

https://www.digikeijs.com/en/dr4018-16-channel-switch-decoder.html

[JohnR]

Had an email today from DCC Concepts about their new building lighting system, which can be controlled via DCC.

[WIMorrison]

Any lighting can be controlled by DCC, and almost certainly for less 😉

 

 

[two tone green]

2 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

Any lighting can be controlled by DCC, and almost certainly for less 😉

 

 

Yep, fully agree.
They sell DCC wire, what is DCC wire and no it’s not a question. 🤐

[WIMorrison]

Apparently it is wire pairs that they have twisted for the DCC Frequency 🤓

[5BarVT]

I buy mine ready twisted - it’s called mains flex!

(NB round not flat cable!)

Paul.

[jaym481]

The DCC Concepts system is repurposing their mimic panel board to control lighting. The board will control any lighting as long as you get the plugs, which can be had off eBay for less than the cost of resistors to connect LEDs to a straight 12V system. The board does look pricey at £50 including 24 LEDs (LED's separately are £25/pack). That's over £1 per output (24 on the board).  

[jaym481]

Just now, 5BarVT said:

I buy mine ready twisted - it’s called mains flex!

(NB round not flat cable!)

Paul.

How much is it for a roll of, say 25m? I haven't lived in the UK for a while, but even here in Canada copper wire is not cheap.

[WIMorrison]

9 minutes ago, jaym481 said:

How much is it for a roll of, say 25m? I haven't lived in the UK for a while, but even here in Canada copper wire is not cheap.

 

Doesn't cost anything from a skip 😉

[5BarVT]

12 minutes ago, jaym481 said:

How much is it for a roll of, say 25m? I haven't lived in the UK for a while, but even here in Canada copper wire is not cheap.

Difficult to find like for like to compare.  100m LSZH 1.5mm twin £81.42 from CPC Farnell ~80p/m

50m 1.5mm red/black twin DCC Concepts £69.95 ~ £1.40p/m
Sheathed cable is more of a faff to use as the sheath needs to be cut back, and the conductor may not be as good quality copper but a lot cheaper!
Paul.

[jaym481]

1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

 

Doesn't cost anything from a skip 😉

Won't find copper wire in a skip this side of the pond. Too much money to be made at scrap dealers.