British Railways “party cars” converted from ex LMS kitchen cars

[Roger Sunderland]

Wondering if anyone out there can help?

in 1955 BR converted 6 ex period 1 LMS kitchen cars to party cars. Does anyone have any info about these, trawling the web hasn’t come up with anything. I’d like to know all/ any of the following if possible.

 

We’re they given any specific branding eg “Party car”?

What was the interior layout like?

Any examples of their use? Eg excursions?

How long did they last?

Any photos?

What stock were they coupled next to?

 

in fact any info at all really.

 

[Wickham Green too]

Plate 53 in LMS Coaches shows W30017M branded "Cafeteria" ..... looks like they lasted about ten years.

[Roger Sunderland]

Thanks for that. Noted the W prefix as well. Is the photo dated 1965?

[hmrspaul]

This is a cafeteria conversion, but has that anything to do with party car?

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmscoach/e64552003

 

Paul

[Roger Sunderland]

Paul

Thanks very much for that, exactly what I’m looking for. This is definitely one of the ex LMS kitchen cars that was converted to the so called “party cars”. I’m wondering if they were further converted to “cafeteria “ cars at some time. The windows are really strange.

Any further info on conversion , build dates, useage etc would be much appreciated.

[Clive Mortimore]

Any help?

[97406]

Off topic perhaps, but I immedately thought of this…

Edited December 6, 2022 by 97406

[Wickham Green too]

10 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

This is a cafeteria conversion, but has that anything to do with party car? ...

Jenkinson and Essery refer to "D2184 called a 'Party Car' although branded Cafeteria."

 

The strange windows - slightly exaggerated in the drawing - probably result from the conversion being done at Eastleigh : they're probably a narrowed version of Bulleid 12'' toplight windows.

 

Build dates are in Jenkinson and Essery.

[Roger Sunderland]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Any help?

Perfect, thanks very much Clive. Don’t suppose you have an interior diagram too?

 

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Jenkinson and Essery refer to "D2184 called a 'Party Car' although branded Cafeteria."

 

The strange windows - slightly exaggerated in the drawing - probably result from the conversion being done at Eastleigh : they're probably a narrowed version of Bulleid 12'' toplight windows.

 

Build dates are in Jenkinson and Essery.

Thanks for that- I think you’re spot on about the windows -  very Eastleigh.

[mark54]

These 6 cars were Cafeteria Type B and were designed for excursion trains, serving cold food and hot and cold drinks. They were double ended with a small central kitchen flanked by 2 transverse counters. At each end was a central scalloped table with 11 stools. Passengers would take a tray and select food items from the display cases. The attendants would serve drinks and take payment.

 

An interior shot can be found in Paul Bartletts's site:

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/interior

 

The initial allocation and introduction dates of the conversions were:

M30001M 11/7/53

M30003M 11/7/53

M30006M 5/9/53

E30007M 5/9/53

W30017M 5/9/53

SC30018M 5/9/53

At some point 30007 was transferred to the LMR. I don’t know if there were any other transfers.

 

Withdrawal was I believe from 1962 to 1965.

[keefer]

I take it you mean pic. no.21?:

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/interior/h23c8ce69

@hmrspaul  It certainly isn't a cl.119 Buffet - that would be more like pic.19 (as would a cl.120), or pic.18 after conversion to a Luggage Space while on the Redhill-Reading-Gatwick services.

Edited December 6, 2022 by keefer

[bécasse]

I think that the reference to "party" results from them having been converted for use in special "party" (ie not regularly timetabled) trains. Sometimes these trains would indeed be for private parties (work's outings or railway enthusiast clubs, for example) but at other times for railway-organised excursions.

[mark54]

1 hour ago, keefer said:

I take it you mean pic. no.21?:

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/interior/h23c8ce69

@hmrspaul  It certainly isn't a cl.119 Buffet - that would be more like pic.19 (as would a cl.120), or pic.18 after conversion to a Luggage Space while on the Redhill-Reading-Gatwick services.

Thanks Keefer. Yes correct. It is the distinctive windows that identify it. If you look through the counter, you can see to the other end of the car which was a mirror image of what can be seen.

[Roger Sunderland]

Guys thank you so much for all the info. I have the Comet kit for the ex LMS kitchen car and picked up the fact that some were converted from their instructions. I would like to try modelling this conversion, the window changes are the main issue though. Thanks to you all I do now have enough to go on. I’ll see if I can think a way round the window issue.

[Halvarras]

7 hours ago, mark54 said:

Thanks Keefer. Yes correct. It is the distinctive windows that identify it. If you look through the counter, you can see to the other end of the car which was a mirror image of what can be seen.

 

Distinctive windows indeed! I was completely unaware of these until yesterday.

 

I look at @hmrspaul's website often (again last night) but I'm clearly going to have to do a 'full audit' to seek out other similar gems 😀!!

 

What's the saying - "Every day's a school day"?!

[rogerzilla]

Bulleid Tavern Cars were the true "party cars".  If you ever want proof that the great man was a bit barking, they are just that.

 

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/british-rails-short-experiment-with-travelling-pubs-36068/

 

It's the fake brickwork ON THE OUTSIDE that does it for me.

[spamcan61]

34 minutes ago, rogerzilla said:

Bulleid Tavern Cars were the true "party cars".  If you ever want proof that the great man was a bit barking, they are just that.

 

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/british-rails-short-experiment-with-travelling-pubs-36068/

 

It's the fake brickwork ON THE OUTSIDE that does it for me.

I must admit I can't remember the source of this information, but it was in a book as opposed to random internet site, so at least vaguely credible, to the effect that the Tavern Cars actually achieved their purpose in that takings from catering increased, as people didn't linger, hence more people were served. However there was such a hoo-hah in the press that they were modified.

[uax6]

One of these vehicles appears in the BTF film 'Cyclist's Special'. It shows a clip of some passengers sat at a table, which I presume is in the conversion as it has melamine table tops. Its a good watch anyway!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPkT0paGEnQ

 

Andy G

 

Edit: I'm sure there was an outside image of the car, but it doesn't appear so, but there's lots of shots of the inside... Now what film showed the outside of one?

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by uax6

[mark54]

2 hours ago, uax6 said:

One of these vehicles appears in the BTF film 'Cyclist's Special'. It shows a clip of some passengers sat at a table, which I presume is in the conversion as it has melamine table tops. Its a good watch anyway!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPkT0paGEnQ

 

Andy G

 

Edit: I'm sure there was an outside image of the car, but it doesn't appear so, but there's lots of shots of the inside... Now what film showed the outside of one?

 

From the windows, seating layout and longitudinal cafeteria, the car featured can be identified as an ex-GE RF conversion to Cafeteria Car Type C. This was a dual-purpose vehicle – for service and excursion trains - with 32 tip-up seats (in 4 bays 2+2 across) at one end and a kitchen at other end which could serve full meals to an adjacent saloon coach.

 

The initial allocation and introduction dates of the conversions were:

SC670E 8/8/53

SC671E 13/6/53

SC672E 8/8/53

SC673E 13/6/53

E674E 13/6/53

M675E 13/6/53

 

I don’t have any withdrawal dates.