Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, E100 said:

68331 is the latest one. 68320 are still in stock in many places.

I think the 68331 is the catalogue number for a 5x pack of  68330 modules.

 

.

[Bulleidboy100]

10 hours ago, ColinB said:

Great thanks, I now can figure out how it can work. The xpressnet links into the existing command structure within the Select and Elite. I don't use a Select but I do have an Elite so the xpressnet has to link in to the existing software running the Select or the Elite. Now seeing as there are no applications using this at the moment, the only current communication is via USB, how does Hornby know it is going to work? The last update I had on my Elite was over a year ago, so I assume all the Elites and Selects will need updating. I think this could be a long wait. Unfortunately you don't find bugs in software until you use it in earnest so even if the Xpressnet is already programmed in the Elite and Select, I doubt it has been tested much.

I used to write software for this sort of thing linking PCs to test equipment so I can see the pitfalls.

 I'm not aware of any upgrades coming for the Elite - currently on 1.45. Don't forget if you have an "old" Elite it will have two xpressnet ports - so you can add more than one dongle.

[ColinB]

21 minutes ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

 I'm not aware of any upgrades coming for the Elite - currently on 1.45. Don't forget if you have an "old" Elite it will have two xpressnet ports - so you can add more than one dongle.

Yes I understand that, it is one thing to have the physical connection it is another to have the necessary software inside lets say the Elite to process it. Do any other products currently use that xpressnet port? Railmaster uses the USB port. Probably Hornby have it all sorted but we can all but wait and see.

[RAF96]

11 hours ago, ColinB said:

Great thanks, I now can figure out how it can work. The xpressnet links into the existing command structure within the Select and Elite. I don't use a Select but I do have an Elite so the xpressnet has to link in to the existing software running the Select or the Elite. Now seeing as there are no applications using this at the moment, the only current communication is via USB, how does Hornby know it is going to work? The last update I had on my Elite was over a year ago, so I assume all the Elites and Selects will need updating. I think this could be a long wait. Unfortunately you don't find bugs in software until you use it in earnest so even if the Xpressnet is already programmed in the Elite and Select, I doubt it has been tested much.

I used to write software for this sort of thing linking PCs to test equipment so I can see the pitfalls.

It already works Colin. Select Walkabout uses Expressnet link as does the Booster module. There is no update of Select or Elite required. The dongle takes the Bluetooth command from the app, punts it over to the Elite/Select which convert it into plain vanilla DCC and feed it to the track. It works as advertised, just the odd glitch on DCC command timing and synch of icon versus function state to sort out. Nothing that already hasn’t been seen in Railmaster.

[Roger Best]

11 hours ago, ColinB said:

Great thanks, I now can figure out how it can work. The xpressnet links into the existing command structure within the Select and Elite. I don't use a Select but I do have an Elite so the xpressnet has to link in to the existing software running the Select or the Elite. Now seeing as there are no applications using this at the moment, the only current communication is via USB, how does Hornby know it is going to work? The last update I had on my Elite was over a year ago, so I assume all the Elites and Selects will need updating. I think this could be a long wait. Unfortunately you don't find bugs in software until you use it in earnest so even if the Xpressnet is already programmed in the Elite and Select, I doubt it has been tested much.

I used to write software for this sort of thing linking PCs to test equipment so I can see the pitfalls.

Hornby know how well it works because they have tested it, and so have a group of external testers. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Roger Best

[SteveM666]

11 hours ago, ColinB said:

.........how does Hornby know it is going to work?............I doubt it has been tested much.

 

The dongles are being extensively tested by the development and test teams and as has been said that while they are working well (even tested in an exhibition environment) there are a couple of small glitches and suggested improvements that are being fettled.

 

[RedgateModels]

7 minutes ago, SteveM666 said:

The dongles are being extensively tested by the development and test teams and as has been said that while they are working well (even tested in an exhibition environment) there are a couple of small glitches and suggested improvements that are being fettled.

 

Maybe my last post ended up being put up using the Special Invisible Ink that can be quite prevalent on here so I'm told 😉

[SteveM666]

7 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

Maybe my last post ended up being put up using the Special Invisible Ink that can be quite prevalent on here so I'm told 😉

Selective invisibility - that’s a new one.😉

[The Meerkat]

4 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

Maybe my last post ended up being put up using the Special Invisible Ink that can be quite prevalent on here so I'm told 😉

hiya one more question,   can you still add photo of the loco if you use dongle for example  number 56, is accurascale 92, i can have photo of that model on that number??

[D3489gibson]

2 hours ago, The Meerkat said:

hiya one more question,   can you still add photo of the loco if you use dongle for example  number 56, is accurascale 92, i can have photo of that model on that number??

 

I wouldn't see why not... Assuming that the setup is the same... 

[RAF96]

5 hours ago, The Meerkat said:

hiya one more question,   can you still add photo of the loco if you use dongle for example  number 56, is accurascale 92, i can have photo of that model on that number??

You add a picture exactly the same as if it was a regular loco. This is a Jinty with TTS decoder assigned to the 7040 dongle. You can assign any number of regular decoder locos to the dongle.

 

[NFWEM57]

I have a question regarding the new Hornby 21 pin decoders. 

 

I have converted a number of Lima class 37s and 47s to 21 pin dcc and was going to use ESU decoders.  As part of the conversion I have include a home design (and well tested) stay alive connected via the decoder socket.  It works well with ESU decoders and with the older 8 pin TTS decoders (which obviously involved a bit of soldering to the chip).  I wonder if the Hornby 21 pin decoders have connected the stay alive connections to the 21 pin decoder pins in accordance with the standard or just the on board socket? 

 

Has anybody tried thsi?

[RedgateModels]

You have to use the HM7000 Power Bank plugged into the on board socket on the decoder

[NFWEM57]

6 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

You have to use the HM7000 Power Bank plugged into the on board socket on the decoder

Thanks you for the response.  Only one way to find out for sure..!

[RAF96]

The decoder manual clearly states the PB only connects via its plug as previously pointed out.

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by RAF96

[ColinB]

6 hours ago, NFWEM57 said:

Thanks you for the response.  Only one way to find out for sure..!

Reading between the lines on forum responses, the HM7000 uses what I would call intelligent "stay alive" where the charging is controlled by the decoder, so that is why you have to use the connector on the board.

Edited October 27, 2023 by ColinB

[NFWEM57]

6 hours ago, RAF96 said:

The decoder manual clearly states the PB only connects via its plug as previously pointed out.

Thank you.  As I said, only one way to find out..!

[RAF96]

30 minutes ago, NFWEM57 said:

Thank you.  As I said, only one way to find out..!

Just don’t  try to claim on the decoder warranty when it goes phutt. The PB charging logic has been adequately explained both here and on the Hornby forum such that use of a home brew stay alive cannot be expected to work correctly with HM7K decoders.

[ColinB]

Yes I bought one and the connection on that plug don't go to vref or ground. Mind you it was very difficult to connect to the pins. It seems awfully good at blowing up decoders though, checked it all worked, tidied it up and hey presto device doesn't work anymore. Substituted another one I had and it works perfectly so it was not my wiring. After using Itrains and Digikeijs software the app is very clunky, but I suppose it is what you are used to. The app seems very easy to confuse itself and managed to disable my substitute device. Once I had deleted the app and rescanned it sorted itself out but I shouldn't have to do that. I like the PowerBank although it does seem to retain the voltage far too long. The other concern is it is 3 X 2.7 volt capacitors  which by my calculation is 8.1 volts maximum, DCC is 16 volts, but I am sure they know what they are doing. I doubt I will be buying anymore, to get it to work properly you need the Powerbank and although the sound is much better, TTS is better if you have a dirty track ( I tested the same loco with both).  Oh the other issue I had is because of the Powerbank, on a lot of locos the 21 pin decoder doesn't sit flat, I am still wondering if that killed the decoder, either way it's Hornby problem now, I have never managed to blow up a 21 pin Zimo decoder. These are just my personal observations.

Edited October 27, 2023 by ColinB

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

As some of you remember I was having issues with the decoders on a pair of my Dapol 73s a while ago, I managed to fix the sound issue, but can't still can't resolve the issue where changing the address on Bluetooth doesn't change on DCC.

 

I've tried programming it on my Digitrax Zephyr unit on the programming track and via the main track, but it comes up as if the loco isn't there or the command station is busy! I can still control the loco via Bluetooth and it seems that it responds to address 3 when on DCC.

 

What is the answer to programming the address on DCC?

 

Simon

Edited October 27, 2023 by St. Simon

[ColinB]

15 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

Just don’t  try to claim on the decoder warranty when it goes phutt. The PB charging logic has been adequately explained both here and on the Hornby forum such that use of a home brew stay alive cannot be expected to work correctly with HM7K decoders.

Given my experience this morning with the Hornby Powerpack, and believe me the only thing I did to it was remove the shrink wrap and replace with insulating tape (it is thinner), I am not sure Hornby will know what you have been doing. Funny thing is, it died in stages,  DCC but no sound,  Bluetooth but no control, finally no DCC, very unusual.

[NFWEM57]

22 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

when it goes phutt

Surely it's 'if it goes phuttt'...!

 

18 minutes ago, ColinB said:

Yes I bought one and the connection on that plug don't go to vref or ground.

Thank you.  I had guessed as much seeing the low voltage large capacitors in the Hornby power pack and will not be using that approach..!

[ColinB]

21 minutes ago, NFWEM57 said:

Surely it's 'if it goes phuttt'...!

 

Thank you.  I had guessed as much seeing the low voltage large capacitors in the Hornby power pack and will not be using that approach..!

I sketched out a circuit how I would do it but it is nothing like that. I did sketch out what is actually on the PowerBank. I could get the scope out and find out exactly how it works, but ~I am not buying anymore so why bother. The thing for me is the PowerBank is an awkward shape and sometimes to fit "stay alive" into a loco it involves distributing the capacitors around the available space, I recently did this with a Zimo decoder by using 6 SMD tantalum capacitors. So from my experience you need the PowerBank for it to work properly so I would rather pay a little bit more and get a decoder where I can add my own. YouChoos do a load of decent capacitors and if you are into electronics even more from China.  

[D3489gibson]

5 hours ago, St. Simon said:

Hi,

 

As some of you remember I was having issues with the decoders on a pair of my Dapol 73s a while ago, I managed to fix the sound issue, but can't still can't resolve the issue where changing the address on Bluetooth doesn't change on DCC.

 

I've tried programming it on my Digitrax Zephyr unit on the programming track and via the main track, but it comes up as if the loco isn't there or the command station is busy! I can still control the loco via Bluetooth and it seems that it responds to address 3 when on DCC.

 

What is the answer to programming the address on DCC?

 

Simon

 

Hiya, don't know if you do face ache, but someone was having a similar issue with the address changing there too on the HM7000 advert. I suggested to them to toggle to DCC, program with the respective DCC handset/ system, then toggle back to BT, and refresh the CVs, and that then worked for them. 

 

Fingers crossed this works for you too!

 

Nathan!!

[NFWEM57]

5 hours ago, ColinB said:

pay a little bit more and get a decoder where I can add my own

Yes, I have a bespoke 21 pin decoder board for my converted Lima C37s and C47s (and others) which includes a stay alive circuit as well as direction sensitive one function control of red running lights (Aux 1) and cab lights (Aux 2).  Works very well for ESU decoders but wanted to see the effect of using a Hornby 7K decoder.  I t will either work or it will not..! I have a complex electronics development and maintenance background.