Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system

[Pmorgancym]

The big question with the dongle, will we get an officam acknknowledgement compatibility or will Hornby only guarantee compatibility with select and elite?

[RedgateModels]

Good question, I can say that it works with Z21

[WIMorrison]

Hornby can only ‘guarantee’ operation with their own products. They have no control over any competitor products - plus as a commercial company (making a loss) they want you to only use their products.

[Johan DC]

6 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

Good question, I can say that it works with Z21

Good enough for me, I'll have one, thank you please!

[The Meerkat]

6 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

Good question, I can say that it works with Z21

 

just out of interest  why would you try it with Z21 when that works straight with the tablet or phone?

[RedgateModels]

1 minute ago, The Meerkat said:

 

just out of interest  why would you try it with Z21 when that works straight with the tablet or phone?

Because that uses wifi and a separate router etc? To be honest I just tested that it works with my Z21 as part of the beta testing program. 

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

7 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

Hornby can only ‘guarantee’ operation with their own products. They have no control over any competitor products - plus as a commercial company (making a loss) they want you to only use their products.

Select and Elite use XpressNet, or some variant of it, I believe.

Unclear to me whether XpressNet is a proper standard or just a specification. 

Also unclear whether the Select and Elite are in any way XpressNet certified. 

Which all means that interoperability with other XpressNet-based systems is uncertain. 

Plenty of functionality of the dongle will probably work with other XpressNet systems while some functionality may not. But it's impossible to know how much as there isn't any proper certification of the dongle or any of those devices. 

Unlike other industries which have embraced standards set by industry bodies like ISO, CEN, CENELEC and ETSI for anything which isn't completely cutting edge. Buses like XpressNet and LocoNet have been around for decades. In most other industries a global standards body would have thrashed out the differences in those specifications to achieve interoperability and benefit the industry as a whole. 

Makes model railways seem pretty myopic. 

[WIMorrison]

Lenz specified the XpressNet standard many, many years ago and there are several manufacturers who abide by the standard - unfortunately Hornby is not one of them, hence the interoperability issues that are seen when trying to expand Hornby command stations with products that expect and require the full implementation of the XpressNet standard.

[The Meerkat]

3 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

Because that uses wifi and a separate router etc? To be honest I just tested that it works with my Z21 as part of the beta testing program. 

 

nice

 

i am looking at z21 but that ages away at the mo, cant afford £500 where as my elite still works and with the dongle be able to use my tablet

[WIMorrison]

A z21 is around £200, a Z21 is around £450 😉

 

 

[melmerby]

46 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

A z21 is around £200, a Z21 is around £450 😉

 

 

Scograil have Z21 @ £364.95

z21 is £233.95 with a Maus

Edited January 20 by melmerby

[spamcan61]

1 hour ago, NotofthiscenturyTim said:

 

Unlike other industries which have embraced standards set by industry bodies like ISO, CEN, CENELEC and ETSI for anything which isn't completely cutting edge. Buses like XpressNet and LocoNet have been around for decades. In most other industries a global standards body would have thrashed out the differences in those specifications to achieve interoperability and benefit the industry as a whole. 

Makes model railways seem pretty myopic. 

 

There's nowhere near enough money/production volumes in toy trains to justify the time consuming expense of round the world jollys having meetings about standards IMHO. ETSI = European Touring and Sightseeing Institute;-). And it's not like 'proper' standards aren't open to interpretation, leading to equipment from two different manufacturers not playing nice together.

[NotofthiscenturyTim]

2 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

There's nowhere near enough money/production volumes in toy trains to justify the time consuming expense of round the world jollys having meetings about standards IMHO. ETSI = European Touring and Sightseeing Institute;-). And it's not like 'proper' standards aren't open to interpretation, leading to equipment from two different manufacturers not playing nice together.

Have you come across this newfangled thing known as a video call ;)

Plenty of standards for other niche and specialist industries. 

[The Meerkat]

6 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

A z21 is around £200, a Z21 is around £450 😉

 

 

 

whats the difference ;) 

[Pmorgancym]

11 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

There's nowhere near enough money/production volumes in toy trains to justify the time consuming expense of round the world jollys having meetings about standards IMHO. ETSI = European Touring and Sightseeing Institute;-). And it's not like 'proper' standards aren't open to interpretation, leading to equipment from two different manufacturers not playing nice together.

But there s enough for individual manufacturers to reinvent the wheel rather than start with an existing specification?

[RAF96]

Hornby has several 'alien' controllers that they use to check compatibility of stuff, but obviously not all makes and models.

They have surveyed the many Xpressnet capable devices and note that whilst using the 'standard' do not use the same connector, some are RJ and some are DIN. There may be adapters available to allow use of the dongle with DIN sockets, but to date none have been identified, thus none have been tested.

If anyone has found such adapters that work to connect disparate plugged Xpressnet devices that would be helpful to know about.

[Pedro32]

Well since the last time I posted I’ve installed a further 5 decoders into my fleet, from more 50’s /31/ 9F to a class 60.

 

I’d forgotten that the sound file for the 60 was now available. Took me over an hour to install, as at first I thought the decoder was duff after installing the firmware update. Turns out I had to remove the decoder a couple of times before it accepted downloading the sound profile. I’d learned quite early on you don’t install the stay alive pack till you’re all fettled first with the profiles. 
 

After a few cups of tea and choice words it’s all come good. 👍  I’ll be buying a couple more to see if I can fit into some new 56’s hopefully. 

cheers Peter

[Johan DC]

10 hours ago, The Meerkat said:

 

whats the difference ;) 

z21 is the starter version, Z21 the pro. If your layout isn't too large or complex, the z21 is the one to go. 

 

https://www.z21.eu/en/z21-system/the-models

 

[markw]

2 hours ago, RAF96 said:

Hornby has several 'alien' controllers that they use to check compatibility of stuff, but obviously not all makes and models.

They have surveyed the many Xpressnet capable devices and note that whilst using the 'standard' do not use the same connector, some are RJ and some are DIN. There may be adapters available to allow use of the dongle with DIN sockets, but to date none have been identified, thus none have been tested.

If anyone has found such adapters that work to connect disparate plugged Xpressnet devices that would be helpful to know about.

I haven't tried it personally but these should work;

 

https://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/lenz-80006-ly006-xpressnet-cable-2596-p.asp

 

And

 

inline coupler

[WIMorrison]

12 hours ago, The Meerkat said:

 

whats the difference ;) 

LocoNet, separate programming track, ability to change parameters within the command station - especially track voltage - and importantly network enabled and supplied with wifi router.

 

z21 has none of the above capabilities 

[The Meerkat]

so A Z21 can do more then just Z21?

 

i no going of topic here

[Kaput]

Worth noting the Z21 can update firmware/sound on most Zimo decoders. The z21 can't.

[The Meerkat]

7 minutes ago, Kaput said:

Worth noting the Z21 can update firmware/sound on most Zimo decoders. The z21 can't.

you confused me lol 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, The Meerkat said:

you confused me lol 

The firmware in a decoder determines what parameters the decoder has. It is loaded into the decoder after manufacture (think of it as an operating system e.g.Windows, Mac etc)

Most decoders cannot then be changed even if new features arrive.

However some allow these to be changed, amongst them Zimo and theirs can be done on a Z21

Edited January 21 by melmerby

[The Meerkat]

26 minutes ago, melmerby said:

The firmware in a decoder determines what parameters the decoder has. It is loaded into the decoder after manufacture (think of it as an operating system e.g.Windows, Mac etc)

Most decoders cannot then be changed even if new features arrive.

However some allow these to be changed, amongst them Zimo and theirs can be done on a Z21

aaahh got you a z21