BR AC electric locos-early cab roof colours

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, rodent279 said:

And some ex- LMS designed stock went blue & grey (not sure if any actually built by the LMS went b/g-perhaps @Coach bogie or @robertcwp can tell us?)

I'm only aware of post-nationalisation LMS designed passenger stock carrying blue/grey. Some non-passenger stock such as TPO vans might have dated from the LMS period.

[Wickham Green too]

Rather depends on your definition of 'passenger stock' : - 

..... built 1942 ( Perth 17/4/80 )

[robertcwp]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Rather depends on your definition of 'passenger stock' : - 

..... built 1942 ( Perth 17/4/80 )

That's departmental stock not passenger stock.

[rodent279]

Another one here of E3036 in what looks like BR blue:-

 

Caption says its at Euston- I'm not convinced, looks more like New St to me.

[woodenhead]

Chester July 1967

 

Attached to an A4 - Sir Nige.

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by woodenhead

[workev2000]

Hope these two Ronnie Gee photos might help.

 

The first is of AL1 E3012 (81 010) hauling a dead AL3 E3100 (83 015) through Burnage station on 2nd January 1967. E3100 was the experimental AL3 and had been in Crewe works for quite some time having new bogies fitted with different traction motors (which I think became standard across the AL3s when they were reintroduced after storage at Longsight (stand to be corrected). Whilst the bodyside is still in 'Electric Blue' and seems to be untouched the ends and cab roof have been repainted (potentially with the small yellow area). They appear to be all White, not a hint of any grey whatsoever.

Other photographs in the collection also seem to show all white cab surrounds on a variety of AL electrics, but if it is as subtle as some suggest on the thread, who knows! 

The 2nd photo is believed to have been taken on 29th May 1966 and show LMS porthole M27083M in fresh BR Blue/Grey livery at Stockport Edgeley carriage sidings.

[keefer]

I still think the window surrounds look 'whiter' than the domes but now wondering if it's just down to surface finish? i.e. a GRP/slightly textured surface on the dome makes the white seem a bit grey.

[workev2000]

Remember that the colour as represented in 1960s slide film is not reproduced brilliantly unless you work really harder at colour correction (believe me I know!). Air flow and surface texture and curves (as in the roof domes) undoubtedly play a part too in real-world weathering and light reflection (in a photo). But in all the Ronnie Gee slides (including those shown) I have colour corrected and restored there is no discernible "grey" on the window frames. I'm not sure the paint shop would be that bothered to be honest either! 

[rodent279]

To be fair, the grey on a (clean) blue & grey vehicle sometimes looks more white than grey.

[MidlandRed]

11 hours ago, rodent279 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are these the photos you mention?

 

On balance, I'd say thatroof is white. Debatable whether it ran in service like that-possibly not, I think they were in store by then.

I think there was a photo of E3036 from the other side, at Chester.

 

I would think E3028 ran in service in that condition for a while - class 83 didn’t get stored until later than the 84s - I tend to agree E3036 and E3044 didn’t run in service in repainted form! 

[MidlandRed]

3 hours ago, rodent279 said:

To be fair, the grey on a (clean) blue & grey vehicle sometimes looks more white than grey.

Especially the WCML Pullman sets in reversed livery - and how cool they looked - especially the Manchester one which was a whole train of them (in contrast the WR Pullman units very definitely looked rail grey after repainting from Nanking Blue).

 

Im tending to agree the trim on E3028/36/44 is white - I think colour rendition from 60s slides plays tricks dependent on light conditions and the shapes/angle of the surfaces of the objects concerned. 
 

Interesting that E3100 was not present in storage at Bury when I visited on 28/8/69 - E3028, 36 and 44 all were. The only other class AL3 or class AL4 missing was E3043 (at Rugby at the time). Severely fire damaged AL2 E3055 was there as well. 
 

 

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, rodent279 said:

To be fair, the grey on a (clean) blue & grey vehicle sometimes looks more white than grey.

Just look at the 'Porthole' above ....... there's a white line border to the grey panel ...................... honest, there is !

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Just look at the 'Porthole' above ....... there's a white line border to the grey panel ...................... honest, there is !

Yes, it's not obvious is it?

[rodent279]

2 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

I think there was a photo of E3036 from the other side, at Chester.

 

I would think E3028 ran in service in that condition for a while - class 83 didn’t get stored until later than the 84s - I tend to agree E3036 and E3044 didn’t run in service in repainted form! 

Yes, but I can't link to it🤔

[roythebus1]

Note too the porthole coach fitted with ETH.

 

Also note the pic above of E3036 fitted with one pantograph.

Edited January 11, 2023 by roythebus1

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, roythebus1 said:

Note too the porthole coach fitted with ETH.

 

Also note the pic above of E3036 fitted with one pantograph.

Also the underframes and bogies are brown on the blue& grey porthole coach.

 

1 pan and no air reservoirs on the roof means E3036 is still vac brake only at this point. There is a photo on Flickr of E3001 in electric blue with SYP & 1 pan, so my R753 with 1 pan is correct (although the stick on yellow panels came off years ago).

[BernardTPM]

Yes and in line with the Corporate Manual with the solebars/headstocks in blue and the bufferheads in brown. Blue/grey repaints of Pre-BR coaches were not always correctly done.