Hymeks in the West Midlands 1961 - 1962

[Weaselfish]

Good evening.

 

Does anyone know if there were any Hymek workings over the ex-GWR lines around Birmingham Snow Hill before the transfer to the LMR at the end of 1962 please? I've drawn a complete blank with the online and published sources that I'm aware of so I'm guessing Hymeks didn't visit, but I'd welcome confirmation from someone more knowledgable on the matter than me.

 

Thank you.

[Ian Hargrave]

If they were seen,it would have been enroute to WR depots after leaving the factory  .Bristol Bath Road ( 82 A ) being the first to receive an allocation,followed by Canton ( 86 A) in the summer of ‘62.  As a temporary resident in the area from late ‘62 to mid ‘64 ,I have no record of seeing one. 

[The Johnster]

Paging Phil Bullock, Mr. Bullock to the thread please...

['CHARD]

Given the various lines' geography, delivery runs from Gorton tended to be via the Midland route to Derby via Bakewell and Matlock, and I am guessing thence via the Midland route through Gloucester to reach Bristol and South Wales.

[younGGuns7]

25 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

Given the various lines' geography, delivery runs from Gorton tended to be via the Midland route to Derby via Bakewell and Matlock, and I am guessing thence via the Midland route through Gloucester to reach Bristol and South Wales.

I would have loved to see them though Bakewell, I walk that track Bed regularly and the thought of a Hymek blasting down from Monsal puts the hairs on my neck stand up - anyone got some photos? I’ve seen them at Derby but never at Bakewell

 

[MidlandRed]

I was under the impression that at least some of them were delivered via the Great Central, Banbury, Oxford, Didcot to Swindon (there are photos on Flickr of various class members on delivery). 
 

The batch allocated to the Lickey as bankers didn’t move there until the mid 60s, taking over from D69xx locos - however some of those Hymeks appeared on parcels workings in the Birmingham area, but after the timeframe specified. 

[The Johnster]

The GC route would have been well established for locos built in Gorton...

[The Johnster]

6 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

If they were seen,it would have been enroute to WR depots after leaving the factory  .Bristol Bath Road ( 82 A ) being the first to receive an allocation,followed by Canton ( 86 A) in the summer of ‘62.  As a temporary resident in the area from late ‘62 to mid ‘64 ,I have no record of seeing one. 

 

Canton's batch were tasked with the Paddingtons, previously King jobs, and while the Hymeks were proper little pocket rockets, 8P work was a bit much for them.  The timings were generous but the loads were heavy, 14 bogies unassisted from the bottom of Severn Tunnel to Badminton, or 16 with assistance, and the Hymeks had to be thrashed hard to keep time.  They had to hold the fort until the Westerns and 47s turned up, as Warships were not allocated to South Wales sheds and the men did not traction sign them.

 

Canton still had this batch on the books when I worked there as a guard in the 70s, as well as some in the D709x series, and the latter were several wagons stronger; the initial abuse affected the locos for many years afterwards.

[melmoth]

12 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

Given the various lines' geography, delivery runs from Gorton tended to be via the Midland route to Derby via Bakewell and Matlock, and I am guessing thence via the Midland route through Gloucester to reach Bristol and South Wales.

 

I think they might have turned left at Gloucester for Swindon to have a look at them before passing them on to the sheds.

[TheSignalEngineer]

There are at least two previous threads about testing which was done Gorton to Derby via Bakewell and delivery to Swindon via the GC and Banbury, pictured at Rugby on at least two occasions.

As for service, in the early days I only remember a couple at Snow Hill, one was on a Footex from Paddington.

Around 1965/6 we then used to get a regular one through Kings Norton on a Severn Tunnel - Washwood Heath working which came via Lickey so that WR men could keep route knowledge. This had previously been a Hall duty.

Edited January 15, 2023 by TheSignalEngineer
Footex was 1965

[Weaselfish]

Thank you for your replies everyone. This confirms what I thought - Hymeks were very rarely seen on the lines around Snow Hill in their early years and even then not on a regular service. Thanks again.

[Bungus the Fogeyman]

I believe (and the South Wales contingent may be able to bear me out on this one} that Hymeks used to work oil tankers from the Cardiff area to Soho Pool...

 

Disgusting of Market Harborough

[br2975]

On 21/01/2023 at 12:47, Bungus the Fogeyman said:

I believe (and the South Wales contingent may be able to bear me out on this one} that Hymeks used to work oil tankers from the Cardiff area to Soho Pool...

 

Disgusting of Market Harborough

.

Yes, they did.

[MidlandRed]

However, surely not in the pre 1963 period when the old WR Birmingham Division was transferred to the LMR (as per @Weaselfish original post)?? 
 

A Hymek also ran an early evening parcels service, I think from Worcester (3M02) via Hartlebury, Stourbridge J, Rowley Regis, Smethwick West (all of which is ex WR), Soho, Perry Barr North, Bescot towards Wolverhampton - often one of the Lickey Banker allocated locos. 
 

Were the Soho Pool trains also headed by class 47s in the later 60s? I know when one was derailed and tankers rolled down the embankment on the curve in Handsworth Park, that train was hauled by a 47. 

[Covkid]

On 24/01/2023 at 00:15, MidlandRed said:

However, surely not in the pre 1963 period when the old WR Birmingham Division was transferred to the LMR (as per @Weaselfish original post)?? 
 

A Hymek also ran an early evening parcels service, I think from Worcester (3M02) via Hartlebury, Stourbridge J, Rowley Regis, Smethwick West (all of which is ex WR), Soho, Perry Barr North, Bescot towards Wolverhampton - often one of the Lickey Banker allocated locos. 
 

Were the Soho Pool trains also headed by class 47s in the later 60s? I know when one was derailed and tankers rolled down the embankment on the curve in Handsworth Park, that train was hauled by a 47. 

 

Whilst this doesn't really equate with the original post I believe the Soho pool flow was original Cardiff allocated 28xx / 38xx 2-8-0s replaced by 9Fs then dieselization. At one point it was hymeks working the two trains a day, which for one timetable period were merged together between Cardiff and Bescot with the pair of multi'd locos handling the 40 x 35T tanks.  The megatrain was split at Bescot and run as two seperate services in an out of Soho pool and all the way back to Cardiff, which seems more of a faff to me and saves nothing, basically because they would have needed two Gloucester or Worcester drivers to split and work then from Bescot - Bescot drivers not being trained on them.   

 

 

[Covkid]

An old colleague of mine who retired a couple of years ago swore he saw a red primer hymek at Derby once back in the 1960s.  We always pooh poohed  him and said it would be impossible.  A hymek would not have left Gorton in undercoat and run in on the Peak route to Derby.

[nigb55009]

On page 8 of "The Power of the Hymeks" by John Vaughan, there is a photo of Hymek D7046. Taken on 23rd July 1962,

at Derby Midland in undercoat on 1T46, a test train from Gorton Works. The livery doesn`t appear to be red primer,

probably grey and very patchy as well. The caption states that all Hymeks were tested on this train, it doesn`t mention

if they were all in undercoat though.

[Halvarras]

7 hours ago, nigb55009 said:

On page 8 of "The Power of the Hymeks" by John Vaughan, there is a photo of Hymek D7046. Taken on 23rd July 1962,

at Derby Midland in undercoat on 1T46, a test train from Gorton Works. The livery doesn`t appear to be red primer,

probably grey and very patchy as well. The caption states that all Hymeks were tested on this train, it doesn`t mention

if they were all in undercoat though.

 

I think Hymeks in undercoat on test were unusual to rare, otherwise I'd have expected to see more such photos, however they could go out fully painted but not quite finished, such as D7041 also photographed at Derby on 1T46, lacking OHLE flashes (and now modelled by Heljan in this short-lived condition). If Heljan's next batch of releases includes D7046 in mottled grey primer (which wouldn't surprise me, the way things are heading) it would make slightly more sense than a steam loco in 'photographic grey' since at least it was seen on the main line hauling a train!!

Edited January 29, 2023 by Halvarras

[Matt37268]

On 28/01/2023 at 16:17, Covkid said:

 

Whilst this doesn't really equate with the original post I believe the Soho pool flow was original Cardiff allocated 28xx / 38xx 2-8-0s replaced by 9Fs then dieselization. At one point it was hymeks working the two trains a day, which for one timetable period were merged together between Cardiff and Bescot with the pair of multi'd locos handling the 40 x 35T tanks.  The megatrain was split at Bescot and run as two seperate services in an out of Soho pool and all the way back to Cardiff, which seems more of a faff to me and saves nothing, basically because they would have needed two Gloucester or Worcester drivers to split and work then from Bescot - Bescot drivers not being trained on them.   

 

 

But weren’t Bescot Drivers trained on 42/43s? They had some of them allocated there didn’t they? 

[Covkid]

34 minutes ago, Matt37268 said:

But weren’t Bescot Drivers trained on 42/43s? They had some of them allocated there didn’t they? 

Yes;  A link of Bescot drivers, as well as some Wolverhampton and some Tyseley drivers were trained on the NBL "class 43"s.  Bescot fitters were lodged in Newton Abbot for two weeks each to learn the "class 43"

[Phil Bullock]

@The Johnster thanks for the call only just seen it …. Best to put @ in front on name to create notification.
 

As others have mentioned there were workings from Worcester… two possible evening van trains plus the Cardiff - Soho Pool tanks and other freight north of Worcester but Hymeks arrived in the area and started crew training June 63 so after the period…. And didn’t take on Lickey Banker duties until 1967, EE3s were on duty 64-67. Hymek deliveries were not completed until February 64 … there were only 63 in traffic by the OPs closing date of 31.12.63, and this fleet was covering for Western issues amongst other workings.
 

As for the Cardiff Tidal to Soho Pool tanks there’s the Michael Mensing picture of a pair of Hymeks double heading northwards at Norton Junction April 65 , page 24 of Power of the Hymeks … I don’t have a date for when they first appeared on that train but would suggest it wasn’t before crew training at Worcester as they were heavily committed elsewhere… and has been suggested up the thread they would probably be Worcester men on board. 

So it’s not looking too likely… but never say never! 
 

And one picked up the return working of the Zulu rail tour at Snow Hill in 1967..
 

Phil

Edited January 31, 2023 by Phil Bullock
Additional info

[MidlandRed]

At 5.40 in this You Tube film of Wolverhampton Low Level, a Hymek runs through light engine - not sure of the date though - Low Level appears to be fully operational though. There is also footage of D1000 in Desert Sand livery (around 1.09). 
 

https://youtu.be/6N_0WBcss98

Edited February 1, 2023 by MidlandRed

[Phil Bullock]

5 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

At 5.40 in this You Tube film of Wolverhampton Low Level, a Hymek runs through light engine - not sure of the date though - Low Level appears to be fully operational though. There is also footage of D1000 in Desert Sand livery (around 1.09). 
 

https://youtu.be/6N_0WBcss98

And very nice too! D7052 to traffic end of October 62 so within the OPs time frame but from her patina and based on the preponderance of Stanier and Standard steam I reckon it’s perhaps 1964…. Cant be sure of the headcodes but it could be 4V03.  Up from Worcester on a van train perhaps… that headcode would be the return working through to Bristol … not sure of the route at this time though ? Via Stourbridge 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Phil Bullock
Corrected

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 01/02/2023 at 06:35, Phil Bullock said:

based on the preponderance of Stanier and Standard steam I reckon it’s perhaps 1964…

Probably even later Phil. 76048 at 3:36 didn't arrive in the Midlands at Saltley until July/August 1964. It moved to Croes Newydd in September 1966. It arrives on an up Class 1 and is replaced by a 47.

A big spread of dates on the film as some were withdrawn in 1962 and others not in the area until 1965/66. 44860 at 2:55 was on that line from 10/65 to 9/66.

 

Note also the shot of Western Talisman with Yellow buffer area which if it is after moving from Laira to OOC dates that clip as October or November 1962. It is noted on brdatabase.info as MSYP at 29/11/62

Edited February 3, 2023 by TheSignalEngineer