Midland Railway Water Towers

[wonkychops]

In the last few years I think I saw a photograph showing the roof structure for a Midland Railway Water Tower.  I think it was in an unusual publication for such a photograph.  I seem to have mislaid it, so I have been looking through the publications I have, without any sucess, so can anyone tell me where and when the photograph was published?

I am beginning to think I might have been dreaming unless it is found.  I have a number of water tanks to roof but this is a topic that is very, very rare.

Anothet topic I have found very little information on are the hydraulic towers that used to supply power across sites for lifts and other equipment.  There was one article in a magazine but very few other photographs or information about these Victorian structures.

[Compound2632]

There are very few period photos showing the interior of water tans, since most photgraphs of the tank buildings were taken from ground level. Searching the Midland Railway Study Centre online catalogue, I find item 77-13559, a drawing for the tank at Hitchin, which at least shows the method of guying used. 

 

There is a well-known 1885 view of Derby:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC item 60495]

 

and this rather intriguing 1888 photo at Bradford:

 

 

[Embedded link to catalogue thumbnail of MRSC item 61853]

 

There is an article by Stan Roberts in Midland Record No. 2 which includes sketches (not official drawings) of the tank house at Rowseley.

 

The Settle Station Water Tower blog is a fascinating read - there was a very careful survey made before work started on conversion to a dwelling.

 

There is a set of Derby official photos of the Leytonstone wagon hoist; was this hydraulic and is that the water tower in the background?

 

 

[Gordon A]

There were some internal shots of the  Midland water tower at Settle(?) before it was converted into a home.

The conversion was covered in a tv programe.

[Compound2632]

8 minutes ago, Gordon A said:

There were some internal shots of the  Midland water tower at Settle(?) before it was converted into a home.

The conversion was covered in a tv programe.

 

See blog linked in my post.

[Wickham Green too]

In global terms not a great way from Leytonstone : - 

.... probably not the Tower that Tower Gateway DLR stop was named after : 16/8/87 & 4/4/88

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

In global terms not a great way from Leytonstone : - 

 

That's the Mint Street wagon hoist?

[Wickham Green too]

Maybe hoist below with accumulator atop ? ( http://www.glias.org.uk/news/065news.html )

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Maybe hoist below with accumulator atop ?

 

By no means clear from the map: https://maps.nls.uk/view/101201628 but I think the building in the photo is at the west end of the site so in the wrong place to be a wagon hoist, besides which I can't see any wagon-sized openings at ground level. So I think that it's purely the accumulator tower, as stated in your linked article. In fact this article states that it was built in 1923:

 

"Around 1923 a three-level red-brick hydraulic accumulator tower was built against the viaduct at the north-west corner of the site, which had been diminished on this side by the extension of Mansell Street."

 

Which would explain why I can't see it on the 1894 map, or on the 1921 map:

https://maps.nls.uk/view/231272328.

[Wickham Green too]

Things have changed big time in that area : Mansell Street doesn't exist on those NLS maps - but looking on Google ( etc.) there seems to be another possible accumulator-towery structure incorporated in a modern building on the south corner of Mint Street ( out of shot to the right of my photos !

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, Gordon A said:

There were some internal shots of the  Midland water tower at Settle(?) before it was converted into a home.

The conversion was covered in a tv programe.

 

Repeated last night or the night before on I think George clarke 8pm on one of the channel 4 programs  More4?

 

Shows the inside of the tank several times

[Michael Hodgson]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

There is a set of Derby official photos of the Leytonstone wagon hoist; was this hydraulic and is that the water tower in the background?

 

 

 

What a magnificent photo! Raises so many questions.

 

It does look like a water tower for hydraulic operation, so did the railway have to pump the water up, or was there enough mains pressure?  However wagon access at the lower level seems to be powered by a capstan - so would that have been hydraulic  or was there a boiler room somewhere providing all the power, probably including a pump?

I also like the stop block at the upper level, obviously important but interesting that it had buffer heads whilst a plain baulk sufficed at ground level.  What are the objects beyond the wheels of the wagon on the deck - sandbags acting as a soft scotch to give a relatively smooth stop  to moving wagons?

How did the operator in the cabin get there - a staircase in the lower part of the tower or the building on the right - or was it a simple metal ladder round the back?

The little footpath sized gate at the lower level isn't enough to fence off the hole when the hoist is up, so was there supposed to be another safety gate (missing) hinged at the left, with no doubt instructions to close it before lifting wagons?

The man in clean clothes and collar & tie is presumably the gaffer.  What would he be called - foreman?

There's quite a lot of wooden planking which can be removed when access when is needed for maintenance of buried equipment.

The capital cost of this installation must have quite significant, and its running costs would be non-trivial too.  I wonder how much traffic needed to be hoisted (and lowered again) to warrant this cost?

 

And how much call would there be for "Passengers" wanting to travel to the top of a wagon hoist in Leytonstone anyway? 

[Artless Bodger]

Considering hydraulic towers / accumulators; some were enclosed, one tower and the pumping station still exists at Wapping, Shadwell Basin, opposite the Sight of a Wholemeal Loaf pub (Prospect of Whitby), it had been converted to an expensive restaurant, is now an arts venue I think - the arts space uses the now empty boiler house, when I visited a few years back the roof water tank was full, quite a few tons of water. http://www.glias.org.uk/glias/lhp.html

 

There is an 'unclothed' accumulator and hydraulic pumping station in the Bristol Docks, phto from wikipedia page

 

 

By Rodw - Own work, Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=2709849

 

The most spectacular accumulator tower I'm aware of is the one in Grimsby docks - modelled on the Torre del Mangia in Siena - though this accumulator relies just on hydraulic head from the tank at the top, rather than a weighted piston.

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

What a magnificent photo! Raises so many questions.

 

It does look like a water tower for hydraulic operation, so did the railway have to pump the water up, or was there enough mains pressure?  However wagon access at the lower level seems to be powered by a capstan - so would that have been hydraulic  or was there a boiler room somewhere providing all the power, probably including a pump?

I also like the stop block at the upper level, obviously important but interesting that it had buffer heads whilst a plain baulk sufficed at ground level.  What are the objects beyond the wheels of the wagon on the deck - sandbags acting as a soft scotch to give a relatively smooth stop  to moving wagons?

How did the operator in the cabin get there - a staircase in the lower part of the tower or the building on the right - or was it a simple metal ladder round the back?

The little footpath sized gate at the lower level isn't enough to fence off the hole when the hoist is up, so was there supposed to be another safety gate (missing) hinged at the left, with no doubt instructions to close it before lifting wagons?

The man in clean clothes and collar & tie is presumably the gaffer.  What would he be called - foreman?

There's quite a lot of wooden planking which can be removed when access when is needed for maintenance of buried equipment.

The capital cost of this installation must have quite significant, and its running costs would be non-trivial too.  I wonder how much traffic needed to be hoisted (and lowered again) to warrant this cost?

 

And how much call would there be for "Passengers" wanting to travel to the top of a wagon hoist in Leytonstone anyway? 

 

The company had evidently spent enough money on the Leytonstone wagon hoist to want to send the official photographer along to capture it in action!

 

Certainly at Mint Street and I expect at Leytonstone there was a pumping engine for the accumulator tower and the capstans and some cranes were hydraulically-powered, along with the hoist. 

 

At many of these city goods stations land was at a premium so building vertically was the most economic way of constructing a sufficiently large goods warehouse. At Mint Street and the adjacent great Northern depot, the main line is on a viaduct so lowering wagons to ground level saved the cost of either building up an embankment or reinforcing the main-line level of the building.

 

Although further out, at Leytonstone it's clear that the goods and coal depot was at a lower level than the line and the cost of building the land up would be considerable. See map: https://maps.nls.uk/view/101201112. I expect this depot would be handling a considerable tonnage of coal.

[Artless Bodger]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

What a magnificent photo! Raises so many questions.

 

It does look like a water tower for hydraulic operation, so did the railway have to pump the water up, or was there enough mains pressure?  However wagon access at the lower level seems to be powered by a capstan - so would that have been hydraulic  or was there a boiler room somewhere providing all the power, probably including a pump?

I also like the stop block at the upper level, obviously important but interesting that it had buffer heads whilst a plain baulk sufficed at ground level.  What are the objects beyond the wheels of the wagon on the deck - sandbags acting as a soft scotch to give a relatively smooth stop  to moving wagons?

How did the operator in the cabin get there - a staircase in the lower part of the tower or the building on the right - or was it a simple metal ladder round the back?

The little footpath sized gate at the lower level isn't enough to fence off the hole when the hoist is up, so was there supposed to be another safety gate (missing) hinged at the left, with no doubt instructions to close it before lifting wagons?

The man in clean clothes and collar & tie is presumably the gaffer.  What would he be called - foreman?

There's quite a lot of wooden planking which can be removed when access when is needed for maintenance of buried equipment.

The capital cost of this installation must have quite significant, and its running costs would be non-trivial too.  I wonder how much traffic needed to be hoisted (and lowered again) to warrant this cost?

 

And how much call would there be for "Passengers" wanting to travel to the top of a wagon hoist in Leytonstone anyway? 

Quite possibly an enclosed accumulator for the local equipement, fed from a hydraulic mains system, pumped from elsewhere maybe?

The capstans etc would likely also be powered off the hydraulic mains - there is a film clip somewhere on the net showing the operation of capstan and wagon turntable, actuated by foot pedals in the ground iirc, the wagon turntable is rotated by using the capstan rope ataced to the end of the wagon frame.

Operator cabin, I suspect the diagonally planked panel with the notice is a door as it opens onto the railed walkway.

Top buffer stops - normal rail built stops - maybe the buffers to stand off the wagon to ensure it is centrally positioned on the lift deck. The baulks below are closer to the deck end - constrained in part by the angled wall behind, one seems to be just a vertical timber, the other has a raking strutt where the wall is further away.

'Passengers' perhaps also includes the geezer standing beside the wagon on the lift, in a precarious position, a sort of catch all notice in case someone gets injured taking a short cut not officially permitted? Maybe he's there to release the wagon brake when it has reached the lower level?

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Artless Bodger said:

Quite possibly an enclosed accumulator for the local equipement, fed from a hydraulic mains system, pumped from elsewhere maybe?

 

The article linked to earlier states that the railway companies had installed their own hydraulic systems before the the public system became available in the mid-80s, operated by the London Hydraulic Power Company, which seems to have been a retirement project of the erstwhile General Manager of the Midland Railway, Sir James Allport. 

[Keith Turbutt]

 

20 hours ago, Artless Bodger said:

 

There is an 'unclothed' accumulator and hydraulic pumping station in the Bristol Docks, phto from wikipedia page

 

By Rodw - Own work, Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=2709849

Very interesting to see an 'unclothed' accumulator tower. I always wondered how they worked.

My local station, Witham Essex ex GER, had an accumulator tower which I believe worked the station lifts but possibly also capstans in the nearby goods yard. Presumably the water was supplied from the adjacent water tower. I don't know of any others at passenger stations.

 

I attach a cropped photo from the Windwood collection, held by the GER Society & NRM, of GER photos taken in 1911.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Keith Turbutt
Correcting grammar

[Artless Bodger]

It's great to see these photos with all the ancilary interest, thank you to the posters. This sort of infrastructure is always of interest - more so than yet another picture of xx class loco. 

 

The inclined lift is an interesting variant, compared to many vertical ones, such as those in the GNR and MR goods depots on the widened lines, or GWR at Moor Street. It deals nicely with the lateral displacement to the low level lines parallel to the viaduct. 

 

 

[wonkychops]

Many thanks everyone for the accumulator tower references, I hadn't noticed any of these before.

However the water tank roof is another matter.  I have knowledge of the trussing used inside the water tank panels but I am convinced there was published a photograph of a roof being built - probably in the years since 2019.  I believe it was in an unusual publication, such as Bylines or even a national society newsletter, but so far my searches have come to nothing, so I am beginning to think it was a dream.  Can someone clear up that belief ?  Quite a few publications have indexes, the trouble is not where I have been looking!

Wonkychops

[wonkychops]

Please see the only reference to hydraulic power that I had previously come across and which drew my attention.

It is an extract from an article by H W Twells called Lineside Buildings, published October 1973 in Model Railways ( or MRN )

- I hope this image does not infringe any copyright -

Wonkychops

[Artless Bodger]

Aerial photos on Britain From Above might be useful if you are after the external appearance?

[wonkychops]

It was any details about the design of a roof or covering for the water I was interested in.

There is a photo on page 34 of Midland Record that shows an unusual addition to water tanks - a series of horizontal metal beams across the width of a standard water tank.  I am hoping there is a second photo that shows what those beams would be supporting.

However during my searching for other information I have come across three photos of Hellifield Station, one about 1900-1910, the second during the 1930's and a third in the 1960's.  In the background is the engine shed and its water tank.  At first there is an arched roof, later a gable ended pitched roof and finally no roof at all to the water tank. So far I have not found photos of any other water tanks with roofs.  But as the Hellifield water tank is in the background details are not visible, though it appears the 1930's version could be made of corrugated iron sheets.

This just leaves me more questions, was this a rareity, what caused the design to change and finally was the tank out of use and quite derelict by 1960?  It could be the roof cover was a Victorian concept that gradually faded away or it maybe the climate at Hellifield necessitated frost prevention that was not necessary in many other places?

It leaves me more mystified.

Wonkychops

[Ian Smeeton]

Try Britain from above

 

96,000 aerial photos, some of which have engine sheds in them.

 

Regards

 

Ian