Blacker Lane D.P.

[figworthy]

6 hours ago, Ruston said:

The line to the exchange sidings curves right immediately at the rear of the locomotive. The line going straight went to the staithe on the Navigation, but had been out of use for a long time, judging by the state of the P.W. further along it.

 

 

Baring the occasional load to Ferrybridge, from the 70s onwards, the staithe only supplied Thornhill Power Station, and that (according to Wikipedia) closed in 1982.  So if you are modelling post 1982, it is a reasonable assumption that the staithe line would have been out of use.

 

Adrian

[Ruston]

23 hours ago, figworthy said:

So if you are modelling post 1982, it is a reasonable assumption that the staithe line would have been out of use.

My thinking is that as it's not actuallly a model of B.O. I will alter such things to suit myself, so the staithe will still be in use no matter what. In terms of what can run on the layout, I will have locomotives and stock for the entire 40-year span of operations but will change what is in use at the same time, e.g the B4 won't run with HAA hoppers. Other than the railway stock the only giveaways to the time period will be motor vehicles, which can also be changed.

 

Here is the complete list of locomotives that are known to have worked at British Oak.

 

Princess HE 572/1893 IC 0-6-0ST  https://www.flickr.com/photos/190924022@N03/51530998593

 

71442 HE 3206/1945 IC 0-6-0ST (Austerity)

 

92 PEPPER Nine Elms/1892 OC 0-4-0ST (B4)

 

71507 RSH 7161/1944 IC 0-6-0ST (Austerity)

 

75173 PEPPER WB 2761/1944 IC 0-6-0ST (Austerity) https://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/50206117007

 

Queen YE 1027/1910 OC 0-4-0ST

 

Hoyland YE 1026/1910 OC 0-4-0ST

 

R.O.F. 16 No.1 HC 1727/1941 OC 0-4-0ST (14-inch, same type and appearance as Elizabeth, from Esholt sewage works)

 

RISLEY YARD No.110 MED P 2020/1942 OC 0-4-0ST (unknown class)

 

47445 HE 1529/1927 IC 0-6-0T (The orange Jinty)

 

D1/9513 0-6-0DH Swindon/1964 (Class 14)

 

D2/9531 0-6-0DH Swindon/1965 (Class 14)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/4382833358

 

HE 5307/1958/1958 4wDM (Yardmaster type)

 

George Barber JF 4200038/1949 0-4-0DH (150HP type, same or similar to the Judith Edge kit).

 

AB 387/1952 0-4-0DM (unknown type).

 

03037 Swindon/1959 0-6-0DM (Class 03)

Clearly out of use in 1981 but it was returned to full working order and repainted in a dark blue but retained the BR number and double arrows logo. https://www.flickr.com/photos/glevumblues/12191087343/

 

D2049 Doncaster/1958 0-6-0DM (Class 03)

Recognisable from 03037 by the circular buffers. Here with 08016.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/95430950@N07/28550976445

 

08016 Derby/1953 0-6-0DE (Class 08) Like 03037 it was later repainted in a dark blue version of the BR livery.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/masonphenix19/8192350262

 

12099 Derby/1953 0-6-0DE (Class 11)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dodger5450/8444549795

 

12122 Derby/1952 0-6-0DE (Class 11)  I am not sure if this one ever actually worked here. All photos that I have seen of it show it in a right state but this is definitely at British Oak.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/glevumblues/12190808425

 

HE 7410/1976 0-6-0DH Shown in my previous post.

 

If anyone has any information or photos of those that I cannot find anything on then please add what you know.

 

And there's this great gallery of images, some of which I have never seen before. The orange Hargreaves lorries are what I remember as being there at the time of the 08s. https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmhague/galleries/72157721066702506/

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Ruston

[figworthy]

2 hours ago, Ruston said:

My thinking is that as it's not actuallly a model of B.O. I will alter such things to suit myself, so the staithe will still be in use no matter what. In terms of what can run on the layout, I will have locomotives and stock for the entire 40-year span of operations but will change what is in use at the same time, e.g the B4 won't run with HAA hoppers. Other than the railway stock the only giveaways to the time period will be motor vehicles, which can also be changed.

 

 

Sounds good.

 

Quote

And there's this great gallery of images, some of which I have never seen before. The orange Hargreaves lorries are what I remember as being there at the time of the 08s. https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmhague/galleries/72157721066702506/

 

Ooh, that's good.  I've not come across that one before.  As well the railway side, there are some nice pictures of the "West Countries" on the canal.

 

Adrian

[sir douglas]

do you know the 2mm scale BO thread?

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/147649-whatever-happened-to-british-oak/

[Corbs]

On 13/02/2023 at 19:57, Ruston said:

 

 

I'm not so keen on these things. Two of them worked at British Oak. Picture by Keith Long, on Flickr.

 

 

 

Now we see where Load-Haul got their ideas from....

[03060]

Nothing to add from me I'm afraid, Dave, my list is the same as yours except that I've included 56090 and 58040 'Cottam Power Station' which are both seen as reaching the Flockton Exchange sidings in Flickr photos from 1993. I'm afraid that it's a while ago now that I looked deeply into this potential project and I haven't noted down which Flickr sources I found other than the Album that you posted the link to and a few from Gordon Edgar's albums; I know that I kept on finding new photos by varying my searches beyond just British Oak, ie using words like Crigglesstone Collieries, Calder Grove and any other combination that I could think of like NCB Wakefield, Yorkshire Mining Museum, Caphouse Colliery and references to the barge operations, etc.

 

My main sources being the two articles in the IRS's Industrial Railway Records 187 & 194 and also their Industrial Loco reference book IRS 8A for loco working dates. Paul Lunn makes reference in his British Oak project piece in the Santona Publications Planning and Design book to an article in Scale Model Trains April 1991 but I've never (yet) managed to see a copy of this. It was Paul's work in the Santona book that set me off looking into this system, I've got a good few 7mm locos and kits already in the 'to do' pile but really need to do my West Highland N gauge layout first (whilst I can still see the bloody things !!)

 

I'm off down to Frizinghall M&Rs shortly, I'll have a look for any of the Hanson's lorries whilst I'm there.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited February 18, 2023 by 03060
More waffle added.

[03060]

Just called at FM&Rs, no Hanson's lorries to be seen but at least 3 Base Toys Leyland Octopus tipper lorries in Charringtons Blue / Silver livery on the shelves if they are any good for a repaint.

 

Cheers,

Ian.

Edited February 18, 2023 by 03060
Correction.

[Ruston]

I took the hounds for a walk down to Blacker Lane, this morning.

 

Compare with the photo on the previous page that showed HE 7410 at the level crossing. The length of ARMCO is where the track crossed.

 

Facing the other way and at a point not far from the rear of 7410 in the picture from 1993. An arch of the Midland viaduct is just about visible.

The footpath to the right follows the trackbed of the line to the exchange sidings, whilst the track to the left is the trackbed of the line to the staithe. In recent years some people who keep horses in fields just off the trackbed cleared the last of the ballast and undergrowth from what had been a footpath and made it so they can drive 4x4s up it. My black lurcher isn't far off where the Jinty was in the picture below. Going back to the previous page, one of my slides of HE 7410 was reversed, so this has now been corrected and this shot should make more sense.

 

This shot, by Andrew Bell, on Flickr, is fantastic. 27th Jan 1969.

There is what appears to be a weighbridge on the line to the exchange and another for road vehicles at the far left of the picture. I wonder if this was for landsale coal? When I first saw the site in 1986 there were already a lot of trees at the side of the exchange line and the staithe line too. A lot of the area to the left was under waste that I presume was spoil from the screens. At the other side of the viaduct there was a huge expanse of it and a haul road, made from concrete passed alongside the L&Y embankment and then crossed the staithe line once under the Midland viaduct. I have wondered if opencasting took place on this area and waste was subsequently dumped there. Nothing would grow on it and it wasn't until just a few years ago that it was used as a landfill site and then covered with soil that there was even so much as a blade of grass on the area beyond the viaduct.

 

After the landfill and landscaping, it became full of small trees and nettles until one day, about four years ago, a lot of men with chainsaws, bulldozers, diggers and tipper trucks came along. They spent weeks clearing it and when I asked what they were doing I was told that they were clearing it so that "Canary Grass" can be grown. Apparently, this can be burned in power stations as a renewable fuel. Some sort of "Green" tax scam, I imagine. The time and effort, plus the diesel to harvest and transport it wouldn't be worth the five minutes that it would keep Drax going. I don't think anyone ever came to harvest it and now it's pretty much as before, only the trees are taller and the weeds thicker.

 

8 hours ago, 03060 said:

Just called at FM&Rs, no Hanson's lorries to be seen but at least 3 Base Toys Leyland Octopus tipper lorries in Charringtons Blue / Silver livery on the shelves if they are any good for a repaint.

 

Cheers,

Ian.

Thanks, Ian. I am wondering if I was mistaken about Hansons? I certainly remember them around Wakefield and I googled them and found pictures of some of their lorries at opencast sites. But then B.O, was operated by Hargreaves and they had their own lorries, which can be seen in some of the photos in the Flickr gallery.

 

I ought to get back to the shed and get on with clearing it up.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Ruston

[maridunian]

Coming to this thread late, I wonder whether a wagon side tippler could be a pragmatic way to unload wagons of any era/type at the staithe? 

 

You've said you're relaxed about manual uncoupling and point setting, so the tipler mechanism needn't be too complex. 

 

Several examples around - here's one described:  http://www.clag.org.uk/tippler.html

 

Mike 

 

[doilum]

12 hours ago, maridunian said:

Coming to this thread late, I wonder whether a wagon side tippler could be a pragmatic way to unload wagons of any era/type at the staithe? 

 

You've said you're relaxed about manual uncoupling and point setting, so the tipler mechanism needn't be too complex. 

 

Several examples around - here's one described:  http://www.clag.org.uk/tippler.html

 

Mike 

 

No doubt someone will prove otherwise, but in Area 8 I cannot think of any use of a side tippler in a waterside location. All the staithes I can remember were end on usually for end door operation, or as in the case of British Oak for hopper wagons. Fryston had a rotary tippler at the washing plant which explained the eclectic mix of wagons used to bring coal up from Wheldale.

[Ruston]

12 hours ago, maridunian said:

Coming to this thread late, I wonder whether a wagon side tippler could be a pragmatic way to unload wagons of any era/type at the staithe? 

 

You've said you're relaxed about manual uncoupling and point setting, so the tipler mechanism needn't be too complex. 

 

Several examples around - here's one described:  http://www.clag.org.uk/tippler.html

 

Mike 

 

I have built two tipplers. One in N gauge and one in O, so it's certainly something that I can do, but the terrain and track layout would have to be very different to the staithe's simple layout in order for it to appear realistic. They wouldn't go to thee expense of installing a tippler when gravity does the job much cheaper, so I would need to alter things so much from dropping the loads straight into barges that it would change the character of that end of the line too greatly.

 

38 minutes ago, doilum said:

No doubt someone will prove otherwise, but in Area 8 I cannot think of any use of a side tippler in a waterside location. All the staithes I can remember were end on usually for end door operation, or as in the case of British Oak for hopper wagons. Fryston had a rotary tippler at the washing plant which explained the eclectic mix of wagons used to bring coal up from Wheldale.

I think you're right. I have never seen a photo of a tippler in use in the area. British Oak originally used end-tipping, or at least the site did when it was Sir John L.L. Kaye's colliery line. I have a book with a photograph of the end tipper in it with one of Kaye's wagons on it and shows it built of wood, with a roof over it. I have also seen photos of internal user mineral wagons with the orange Jinty, so I wonder if end-tippers were used when the site was British Oak and then the tipper was replaced at some time by by the steel-built staithe and hopper wagons were brought in later. The picture below, by Andrew Bell on Flickr, shows the staithe and to the right a load of massive timbers that I suspect are the remains of the end tipper and its roof.

The original track layout included a fan of short sidings and a turntable, which I guess would have been on the flat area just this side of the timbers.

[Ruston]

It's more than just talk now.

 

The white-painted framework that the blue plastic container is sitting upon is the first part of the baseboard supports. The same set up will also run along the RH side of the shed. At the end is a shelf that will also conceal the layout lighting for that end. This will continue down both sides to provide lighting and high-level storage. The rickety old shelf on the right will be removed and a stronger replacement be put in as part of the baseboard supports on that side. Once the old shelf is removed I can continue to lay the carpet tiles that are about half way across at the moment.

 

Self-assembly laser-cut baseboards are on order and will take between 3 and 5 weeks to be ready, which gives plenty of time to have all of this work done and ready for them to be built and installed. The next job is to remove the two spotlights so that the electrical feeds to them can be used for the layout lighting. I will have that installed ready for the baseboards.

[Ruston]

On 24/02/2023 at 17:42, Ruston said:

Self-assembly laser-cut baseboards are on order and will take between 3 and 5 weeks to be ready, which gives plenty of time to have all of this work done and ready for them to be built and installed. The next job is to remove the two spotlights so that the electrical feeds to them can be used for the layout lighting. I will have that installed ready for the baseboards.

When I said that they are on order, I had given a supplier the list of what I want and was told that as some of the boards are custom sizes I would need to pay upfront. I really wanted to be able to pay cash on collection as cash is what I have from the sale of the O gauge. I would have to put the cash in the bank and then pay by bank transfer.

 

I sent the supplier my address which they wanted before they would email the invoice. They haven't replied to my email after a weekend and 3 complete working days. If it's going to take 3-5 weeks after payment to produce the boards, then fair enough, but if they can't be bothered to reply promptly to an email and get the ball rolling then they obviously don't need the business. It has given me time to think about it and now I won't bother with laser-cut baseboards at all.

 

I will make my own open-framed boards. Open-framed boards will provide far more flexibility in making the terrain more than just a flat top and I can have them done in less time than it would take the laser-cut ones to be ready and at far less cost.

[Ruston]

No baseboards as yet, but the support rails are all in place and the lighting rig is almost finished. It needs an 80mm deep valance on the front to prevent the lights shining in my eyes. The lights are LED 'Minidoka' tubes, from B&Q and can be plugged directly into each other at the ends, so there are only two wires going into the entire lighting system at the far end. At the end of this run I have made an extension to plug into the two end tubes and the single one down the other side. They can be switched on or off individually, or be all kept switched on and be turned on or off by a wall switch.

I use the same sort of lights on CVMR and Charlie Strong's and find them to be very effective. Plenty of illumination and no heat generated. Even when they've been on for hours they feel barely warm to the touch.

[Ruston]

I went out with the hounds early, this morning, and walked the trackbed to get some shots of the Midland Railway viaduct.

 

Looking north. There are 6 more arches to the left.

 

Detail. Looking up from the trackbed of the line to the Navigation.

I don't know exactly how I am going to build this structure. I had wondered about getting someone to do laser-cut wood or card, but those large half-curved bricks can't be made that way.

 

 

[doilum]

A job for a 3D printer?

[Ruston]

20 hours ago, doilum said:

A job for a 3D printer?

The price would be astronomical. I don't have a 3D printer, nor do I know how to drive one. I would have to pay the design costs and the printing costs. I once got someone to draw up a loco dome, which was around £30 plus £4 for the dome itself. When you look at how tiny a loco dome is, compared with a viaduct of this size, I dread to think what the price of the printing would be.

[2mmMark]

My little 2mm model of the 1968 steel built staithe bears little relationship to the reality but when I was building it, photos were very scarce, I think I had maybe 3 or 4.  Now they seem to be tumbling out of the woodwork quite regularly.

Of course, now I know that the actual site is very bleak indeed, even in summer.

Industrial Railway Record issue 187  covers the later staithe and 194 covers the earlier staithe.  In summary, the earlier staithe was wood construction and indeed used end tippers.  The later replacement was bottom door discharge only.

The large scale OS map from 1904 available from the National Library of Scotland shows that originally there was a decent size fan of sidings and what looks like two staithes.

The new staithe was officially opened in January 1969.

Nice dogs Dave, greys or whippets?

Mark

[skipepsi]

7 hours ago, Ruston said:

The price would be astronomical. I don't have a 3D printer, nor do I know how to drive one. I would have to pay the design costs and the printing costs. I once got someone to draw up a loco dome, which was around £30 plus £4 for the dome itself. When you look at how tiny a loco dome is, compared with a viaduct of this size, I dread to think what the price of the printing would be.

Physicman built at least two viaducts of this size in his thread about the MR Settle to Carlisle line. I will find the title of the topic and add it to this post later. You were right about Hansons lorries running through Crigglestone I was born in Great Cliff and lived there until 1963-4 my Dad did not think much of Hansons drivers or Hanson himself and there was a prosecution for splashing children and their mothers walking home from infant school... Kirkby Luneside

Edited March 6, 2023 by skipepsi
add layout name

[The Bandit]

I was born in Wakey and remember Hansons well - I think they went by the full name of Hansons Haulage if that is the same firm. They ran all over the area including Crigg - I lived very nearby. One of my mates fathers was high up in the firm and always had a very big posh car and his wife didn’t work - seemed to spend all summer watching tennis on the TV.

[Ruston]

23 hours ago, 2mmMark said:

Nice dogs Dave, greys or whippets?

The black one is a 12-year old Bedlington/Whippet lurcher and the other is a 16-month pure bred Whippet.

 

23 hours ago, 2mmMark said:

Industrial Railway Record issue 187  covers the later staithe and 194 covers the earlier staithe.  In summary, the earlier staithe was wood construction and indeed used end tippers.  The later replacement was bottom door discharge only.

Thanks. They are among the few that I don't have.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Ruston

[Neilgue]

Physicman's latest build is Gill Head. He has been a bit quiet lately, but the viaduct was completed a while ago. The earlier pics on the thread were lost in the great crash, but I think he has managed to reinstate them from this page:

.

[Ruston]

14 hours ago, Neilgue said:

Physicman's latest build is Gill Head. He has been a bit quiet lately, but the viaduct was completed a while ago. The earlier pics on the thread were lost in the great crash, but I think he has managed to reinstate them from this page:

.

That is superb, but I couldn't use the same technique of cladding the structure in thousands of individual pieces of DAS because the prototype I want to build is made from brick.

[Ruston]

The shed has carpet and the frames to support the baseboards and lighting rig are all done. More junk has been binned and I can see the workbench again! Harboro Stone has a proper place to live and I could even operate it from it's new location.

 

Whatever I was going to do with regard to baseboards, all of the work so far would need to be done anyway but now that I won't be purchasing laser-cut baseboard kits and just short of £500, I am well within the budget that was determined by the sale of the O gauge.

 

I bought a load of 9mm ply last week and was supposed to get it all cut, last Thursday, but the weather intervened. The cutting is rescheduled for this Saturday. JT will be cutting all on his table saw, which saves me hours of work with a jigsaw.

[Ruston]

Let the games begin!

 

Seven 4ft.x2ft. ply boards were each cut into three 90mm strips that would become the front longitudinal and the stretchers. The remaining 300-odd mm to be the rear longitudinal/backscene. Today I chopped some of the 90mm strips to length to become the stretchers and then screwed and glued 34x34mm wood to them.

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Ruston