Gauge or Scale

[The Johnster]

I know what you mean, but there are some H0 models that can be got away with in 00.  Especially American H0 buildings.  As everyone knows, Americans are not shy about building things that are big, after all they have the room for them.  I would contend that the Walther's Cornerstone range of industrial buildings are entirely suitable for 4mm use; I have 'Diamond Coal' Tippler building as the main colliery structure at Cwmdimbath, the backstory being that the original screens/washery building burned down during the war and a new one, now just over 10 years old on the model, built with Ministry of Supply approval and Government grants, to exploit a newly tapped seam of very high quality coking coal suitable for use in certain high-grade steel production.

 

 

Like this.

 

I submit that the only place it gives it's 3.5mm origins away is the staircase and perhaps the walkway leading from it which is a bit narrow, but the staircase in particular because the steps are blatantly too close together.  There is clearance beneath the loaders for locomotives to 4mm 00 standard loading gauge, which is mor than can be said for many of such prototype buildings, and I have been able to shoehorn in a siding leading to the slack bin, which is intended in the kit to be road vehicle access.  Too tight for locos but ok for wagons.  I think it looks perfectly at home in the Mid-Glamorgan valleys in the 1950s.  The story is that it was painted dark green when it was built to hide it from the Luftwaffe, and has not been painted since so fading and streaking has taken place.  The doors and windows do not look excessively small, and I am happy with it, certainly happier than the previous building which was a Faller 'Old MIne' kit, not at all British looking and a bit Disney to my view, but The Squeeze, who is Polish, assures me that such buildings are familiar to her from her Silesian childhood (her father is a coal miner, retired now).  The remnants of this structure are visible in the background of the photo, but have been removed now.

 

 

Here's the pithead area, a mixture of 4mm kits and scratchbuild.  The headframe is a DAPR 3D print, and feeds the tippler at this level, up the mountainside, a typical South Wales format; the tippler building, which houses the screens, washery, and coal loading chutes, is to the bottom right of the photo.  No prizes for identifying the boiler house... Diamond Coal is intended as a drift or 'slope' mine, a very typical Appalachian structure where the coal is taken out along a level drift gallery or a sloping one, but this adapts well enough to a South Wales headframe for a vertical  shaft surfacing on the lower slopes of the mountain.  Space was limited in narrow and steep-sided valleys and the valley floor was needed for the railway and the colliery sidings.  This is a 3.5mm scale building sitting amongst 4mm scale buildings, and looking perfectly at home. 

 

British 4mm RTR industrial buildings are much more modest than their American counterparts, and although Diamond Mine only has two loading roads that can handle three wagons each, it is impressively large and convincingly industrial.  Walther's do a coke ovens, strip mill, and a steel smelting plant, the basis of a complete steelworks, that would look fine on a 4mm layout.

[Mark Laidlay]

I see some people arguing that beginners need to know what will suit their "00 gauge" railway.  Surely they would just as easily know if the products were labelled "00 scale".  That minor change would avoid some of the confusion between gauge and scale that I see in the UK more than in other markets.  People who are confused will often not ask questions due to embarrassment so may drift away from the hobby.

I notice that Hornby are using "scale" in regard to their TT120 line.

I read magazines and consume other media from the US, UK and Oz.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Mark Laidlay

[The Johnster]

‘4mm/foot scale for 00 gauge track’.  FTFY. 
 

Or, taking the cue from ‘TT120 scale’ how about ‘0076 scale’. 

[kevinlms]

8 hours ago, Mark Laidlay said:

Maybe I'm overly fussy but I can't mix models from different scales in the same scene.  Forced perspective uses the full scale in the foreground with smaller scales in the background so overscale models won't fit on my H0 scale railway.  Surely everyone can see the 4mm scale car in the attached photo amongst the H0 scale cars.

I think many can see it, but don't care sufficiently. Then again does the supply of correct scaled models come in at a similar price?

No doubt a Mini is available in 3.5mm scale, to be pedantic, but what's the price difference?

 

You see many layouts around with say ballast (if any) that is totally wrong, as the individual pieces are over large and rounded, so are wrongly scaled vehicles any more or less wrong?

[jjb1970]

If you are careful with placement you can use both 1/76 and 1/87 vehicles on a layout. In most cases the difference is only clear if you place them together. If you group the 1/76 models together (or just place them on their own) and the 1/87 ones in another part of the layout then it works well.

 

With buildings, it is something of an art as few layouts have space to truly represent large buildings or industrial facilities to scale, so it is about how you represent them, what compromises are made, using relief buildings and back scenes etc. As has been pointed out, US manufacturers make some superb buildings in HO which I find much more convincing than European HO building kits which work well in OO too.

[Mark Laidlay]

19 hours ago, kevinlms said:

I think many can see it, but don't care sufficiently. Then again does the supply of correct scaled models come in at a similar price?

No doubt a Mini is available in 3.5mm scale, to be pedantic, but what's the price difference?

 

You see many layouts around with say ballast (if any) that is totally wrong, as the individual pieces are over large and rounded, so are wrongly scaled vehicles any more or less wrong?

There is a H0 scale mini next to the 911.  I don't do overscale ballast either, I use paving sand mixed with a bit of tile grout to get the colour I want.  The worst ballast I see is overscale mainline ballast in a loco depot, imagine all the workers comp claims those railways must get due to rolled ankles etc.  I must admit that bike in this photo is 4mm scale.