Gulf, Atlanta & Eastern - into the second decade

[Barry Ten]

I've loved the look of the Kato Mikado but had also heard that it was a pig to convert to DCC, so I've resisted the urge. Everyone seems to rate it very highly as a model, though, so you wonder why Kato haven't pulled their finger out and brought it up to date with a more user-friendly design.

 

You're quite right about choosing road names - could have made life a bit easier by going UP or Southern Pacific or even Pennsy (which I have a particular liking for) but as you say, it does force one to do a bit of modelling, even if it's just swapping tenders.

[Adrian Wintle]

I've loved the look of the Kato Mikado but had also heard that it was a pig to convert to DCC, so I've resisted the urge. Everyone seems to rate it very highly as a model, though, so you wonder why Kato haven't pulled their finger out and brought it up to date with a more user-friendly design.

 

You're quite right about choosing road names - could have made life a bit easier by going UP or Southern Pacific or even Pennsy (which I have a particular liking for) but as you say, it does force one to do a bit of modelling, even if it's just swapping tenders.

 

I've got one Mikado converted and a couple more to do (one is going to get the GHQ conversion to become a Pennsy L1s Mikado). They aren't particularly difficult if you don't mind a fair amount of disassembly and some creative routing of very fine wires. You do also need to find at least one, and preferably two, sets of traction-tire drivers for each loco to get the pulling power. If you are interested, try to find a second-run loco as these had better drivers (particularly from a power pickup point-of-view).

 

The Pennsy, while a very popular road, has its issues when it comes to modelling in N, particularly in steam or transition. Pennsy steam locos were almost all specific to the PRR and equipped with belpaire fireboxes - this means that they are different than almost all other locos that ran in North America*. A lot of the main line diesels were equipped with trainphone and thus sported the distinctive antennas - only one RTR manufacturer that I know of has reflected this (PCM/BLI) - otherwise you have to do it yourself. With the exception of Pullman sleepers, the PRR's passenger stock was home-built, a lot of it based on their P70 coach or modernizations thereof, or later their P85 coaches**. Their own shops also built a lot of freight cars that were subtly different from the rest of the roads***. All this from a road whose tagline was 'The Standard Railroad of the World'.

 

* fortunately, way back when, Minitrix was convinced to make some PRR steam locos: a K4s Pacific, a B6sb swittcher, and an erzatz I1s decapod. This sounds nice, but think original Graham Farish.

** fortunately, way back when, Lima based their heavyweight coach and combine on the PRR P70 and PBM70 and these are still available from Model Power. Unfortunately they are pretty basic and reflect the 1920s state of these coaches (the PBM70s appear to have been gone by the 1940s). Centralia shops did an ok representation of a P85 fairly recently.

*** a couple of the signature hopper cars are/were available from Bowser: the H21A of which some 36000 were built, and the GLa of which some 30000 were built.

 

Some of the other Eastern roads have some signature steam locos available ( e.g. N&W Y3 and J, NYC J3a Hudson), as well as being heavier users of the USRA standard designs, which makes them easier to model.

 

Adrian

Edited November 21, 2012 by Adrian Wintle

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Al,

Wow! I've just spent a couple of days(!) reading through your whole topic and I must say, I'm impressed!

You have a really American looking layout there and according to the video, it runs really well, too.

Every now and then I have a hankering to 'do' some US N scale (probably PRR with the Kato GG1?) but with commitments in 0 and H0, can't really justify it so I can at least sit back and enjoy what you have done.

Well done, sir!

John E.

[Adrian Wintle]

Every now and then I have a hankering to 'do' some US N scale (probably PRR with the Kato GG1?)

 

That is a beautiful loco - the only reason I don't have one is that I don't (yet?) model the electrified portion of the PRR. I should really get a 5-stripe brunswick one to pull my Kato Broadway Limited even though I already have an ABBA set of E7s (PCM) and an AA set of E8s (Kato) for it. At least it doesn't need trainphone antennas (trainphone wasn't used on the electrified sections). For the reasons mentioned in my post above, doing any other passenger train that the GG1s pulled is problematic.

 

Adrian

[F-UnitMad]

You have a really American looking layout there and according to the video, it runs really well, too.

 

As I said in post#10 on page 1; "It's one of those rare UK-resident US-outline layouts that looks like it was built by Americans...."

There seems to be something about the way they build layouts over there that makes them just have a different 'look' to how we usually do them over here, and I don't mean in terms of layout size, either.

Menasha Wisconsin is another example of this, where they've captured that same feel of a genuine American layout.

[Scottish Modeller]

As I said in post#10 on page 1; "It's one of those rare UK-resident US-outline layouts that looks like it was built by Americans...."

There seems to be something about the way they build layouts over there that makes them just have a different 'look' to how we usually do them over here, and I don't mean in terms of layout size, either.

Menasha Wisconsin is another example of this, where they've captured that same feel of a genuine American layout.

 

Hi F-Unit,

 

Whilst I agree with the comments about this layout in n and about Menasha in HO...

 

Where does RS Tower fit in this perspective?

 

Please note - not trying to cause difficulties - just trying to establish a UK sliding scale on US based model layouts!

 

Thanks

[BRIAN T]

Hi Al and All

After seeing this layout in the flesh, I can confirm that this is a stunning N guage layout , I wish I had half of your ideas Al

thanks a lot

BrianT

[Barry Ten]

As I said in post#10 on page 1; "It's one of those rare UK-resident US-outline layouts that looks like it was built by Americans...."

 

Meant to say, really enjoyed the article in CM - what a great layout concept, very well described and illustrated. I learned something as well - never realised where "SOO" came from before. Look forward to catching the layout at an exhibition one day.

[F-UnitMad]

Hi F-Unit,

 

Whilst I agree with the comments about this layout in n and about Menasha in HO...

 

Where does RS Tower fit in this perspective?

 

Please note - not trying to cause difficulties - just trying to establish a UK sliding scale on US based model layouts!

 

Thanks

I must admit I'm not very familiar with RS Tower .... so couldn't say!! Off to Google it, I think....

Meant to say, really enjoyed the article in CM - what a great layout concept, very well described and illustrated. I learned something as well - never realised where "SOO" came from before. Look forward to catching the layout at an exhibition one day.

Thanks!! It's not booked for any Shows at the moment - I just don't have the circumstances at the moment.

[Barry Ten]

 

I don't know about the Model Power pacific, but the MP Mikado (2-8-2) is a good representation of a USRA Light Mikado

 

Adrian

 

LSWR had one of these for sale in Southern on their stand at Warley so it would have been rude not to take them up on it.

I've just given it a test drive on DC, this time on the layout - unplugged the Power Cab and hooked up an old Trix controller -

and it runs very well, smooth at slow speeds and so far I haven't managed to stall it once. Perhaps I was unlucky with the

Pacific or it may be that the extra length of the coupled wheelbase on the Mike is just enough to make a difference. Hopefully

these good running qualities will be preserved after I've splodged some solder around putting in a decoder.

[Adrian Wintle]

LSWR had one of these for sale in Southern on their stand at Warley so it would have been rude not to take them up on it.

I've just given it a test drive on DC, this time on the layout - unplugged the Power Cab and hooked up an old Trix controller -

and it runs very well, smooth at slow speeds and so far I haven't managed to stall it once. Perhaps I was unlucky with the

Pacific or it may be that the extra length of the coupled wheelbase on the Mike is just enough to make a difference. Hopefully

these good running qualities will be preserved after I've splodged some solder around putting in a decoder.

 

Mark (Spookshow) has found the quality of the MP locos to be somewhat variable (yes, he's opinionated, but he did go to the effort of buying at least one example of pretty much every loco he reviewed - including the ones he knew were junk):

http://www.visi.com/...show/mp282.html

http://www.visi.com/...show/mp462.html

 

My MP Mikado probably ranks #4 of the locos I have* behind the Kato Mikado, Bachmann N&W J 4-8-4, and LifeLike N&W Y3 2-8-8-2. Only the J is really DCC friendly since the Y3 is the original (non DCC) version.

 

BTW. The other commonly available option for a USRA Pacific (the Rivarossi one) is worse, as all of my ones have mazak disease of some form and don't actually run...

 

*considering only steam locos

 

Adrian

Edited November 29, 2012 by Adrian Wintle

[Barry Ten]

Top tip: when you've finished admiring your lovely Mikado, and you plan to put it back in its box until you can get a decoder, don't insert it into its plastic sleeve and assume that the sleeve is sealed at one end like a sausage, when in fact it's open at both ends, leading to your loco sliding all the way out of the sleeve, through four feet of air, and onto solid wood flooring.

[Adrian Wintle]

Top tip: when you've finished admiring your lovely Mikado, and you plan to put it back in its box until you can get a decoder, don't insert it into its plastic sleeve and assume that the sleeve is sealed at one end like a sausage, when in fact it's open at both ends, leading to your loco sliding all the way out of the sleeve, through four feet of air, and onto solid wood flooring.

 

Oh no...

 

Hopefully it hit boiler first and hurt the floor more than itself?

 

Adrian

[Barry Ten]

Oh no...

 

Hopefully it hit boiler first and hurt the floor more than itself?

 

Adrian

 

The loco seems undamaged but the loco-tender coupling has wrenched loose of the loco, taking some wiring

with it. When I've calmed down and had a few stiff ones I'll open up the loco and see if I can resolder the loose

wiring and fix or substitute the drawbar.

 

Real PITA - and only because I was being "tidy" by putting it back in its box.

[Adrian Wintle]

I seem to recall that connection is a bit of a PITA to disassemble anyway (wires either side of the screw?). You might want to replace the tender with a Bachmann or Kato one to get all-wheel pickup, which would involve re-engineering the loco-tender connection anyway.

 

Adrian

[Barry Ten]

I seem to recall that connection is a bit of a PITA to disassemble anyway (wires either side of the screw?). You might want to replace the tender with a Bachmann or Kato one to get all-wheel pickup, which would involve re-engineering the loco-tender connection anyway.

 

Adrian

 

That's what I did with the 4-6-2 but I was hoping not to have to do it with this one as it does (or did) run very well out of the box.

[Barry Ten]

A few years ago I was impressed with the use of Peco pointwork on John Burkett-Smith's fabulous Totnes and Ashburton layouts, especially the way the overscale tie bar and associated parts had been improved. This area of track on my layout had already been ballasted, with the points laid down out of the box with no cosmetic modification. It's much better to think about improving the points before laying them (which I now do, snipping off various bits) but with some careful work I hope I've still been able to improve the look of these a bit. The main thing I've done is to build up a kind of hollow box around the outside area of the tiebar, under which the tiebar moves, and then run another layer of ballasting over this box. It's a dodge but I think it does go some way to removing the chunky look.

 

[Barry Ten]

I thought it might be useful to show the basic point wiring I use for the GA&E. Disclaimer - this is what I do, it works for me - there are other methods. I don't bother with making my points DCC-friendly because I find it unnecessary given the wheel profiles of today's locomotives, but I do find that the blade contact is not reliable enough for power routing.

 

Step 1 - solder jumper wires to outer rails and a third to the frog wiring which Peco already provide. If you have track feeds nearby you really only need to solder the green wire but I tend to do it this way for consistency. A little plastic needs to be cut away from the sleeper moulding to access some bare rail. The frog wiring isn't pretty but is easily concealed once the track is sitting on cork.

 

 

 

Step 2 - fix point motor. I bend the metal spigots away from the rails to avoid them contacting a flange. I glue a thin strip of card or plastikard directly under the point. Since the motor drives the tiebar via one of the outer holes, there is nothing to prevent this strip running all the way along the point. This will help hide daylight when the point is installed and ballasted.

 

I also nip off the unwanted tiebar extension and trim the point operating arm as close to the tiebar as possible.

 

 

Step 3 - wire up a microswitch. I use these inexpensive Maplins units. I can't speak for long-term reliability but my oldest sets of points have been using these for over four years with no difficulties. I've omitted the wiring for clarity but I adhere to the same red/green convention as for the point wiring. The red wires go to the two tabs that are closer together, the green to the third.

 

 

Step 4 - glue the microswitch directly under the solenoid, such that it is tripped when the operating arm is at one of its limits. The first few times I did this, I used araldite to allow time for positioning but I have since found I can do it with superglue. There is little mechanical load on the microswitch once installed but if you have doubts, you can also run an additional fillet of cyano or araldite around it once it is in position.

 

 

Finally, install point and connect up the red and green wires. The green wires go to each other. The reds can be connected by trial and error - 50% of the time, you'll get it right first go.

 

If you want full DCC-friendly wiring, there is only a little more to do be done but as I said, I don't personally find it necessary. I have never had a short due to a wheelset contacting the opposite rail polarity.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Barry Ten

[marc smith]

On seeing the layout in the flesh a few weeks back,

I honestly didn't particularly notice the tie bars....

 

Your ballasting was very neat,

and once weathered, I think you are less likely to spot such things

 

That said, I look forward to seeing your improvements, once everything is in place,

ballasted and weathered....

 

Chaz has made similar improvements to Peco points on his O gauge layout,

again, the track had already been laid, when he decided to chop the points about

but it's surprising how much of an improvement it has made,

and surprising how well hidden the surgery is.....

 

Of course, you would expect O gauge points to be rather more sturdy than N gauge versions,

but I wonder whether there's an easy, undamaging method of altering the pre-laid points?

 

Looking good sir...

 

Marc

 

EDIT: Link to Chaz's superb "Dock Green"

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58132-dock-green/page__st__325

Edited December 6, 2012 by marc smith

[Barry Ten]

 

Of course, you would expect O gauge points to be rather more sturdy than N gauge versions,

but I wonder whether there's an easy, undamaging method of altering the pre-laid points?

 

 

The difficulty with altering them is that they're only fixed onto cork and foam, so there isn't a hard surface to push against if you want to cut something off. I discovered this the hard way! It's easy to buckle or break the point by applying downward pressure of any kind. I've managed to snip some bits off using Xuron cutters and also a slitting disk but you can't really use a knife. I'm happy enough with the ones that are already ballasted, though, it's just that you can get easier and better results with a bit of modification while the point is still on the workbench.

 

I had a look at Dock Green a few days ago - looks very good, doesn't it.

[john flann]

Barry, I've been looking through your postings-very neatly done-and noted your comments about ballasting points and your solution,

 

By observation I have noted that around and below the moving parts of switches there is little, if any, ballast, so that is the practice I follow on my PRB much to my relief and exercise of patience. It isn't particularly noticeable on the few images posted to date but you will see it when some more are.

 

This removes the difficulty in ballasting switches, and it is prototypical.

[Barry Ten]

You're right about points not always being fully ballasted, John - it's a good point. With N, though, especially Code 55 with its thick sleeper base, I feel I'm fighting the deep sleeper look which to some extent can be minimised by fairly heavy ballasting. I've noticed that if you have a stretch of track, only one sleeper has to be visible to its full thickness to give the game away.

[roundhouse]

I know what you mean. When doing close up photos of Banbury I keep seeing the odd gap in the blast the makes the sleepers look chunky.

 

I tend to cut a rectangle of cork away from under the tie bar area and pit a tiny bit of lubrication into this area before ballasting and adding diluted PVA.

 

Any excess glue then drains off through the hole under the tie bar for the turnout motor but just make sure there is protection between the hole and the carpet below!

 

PS ..not sure how easy it is to install peco solenoids direct to the turnout when already installed though.

Edited December 6, 2012 by roundhouse

[Barry Ten]

 

PS ..not sure how easy it is to install peco solenoids direct to the turnout when already installed though.

 

All mine already have solenoids and microswitches right from the start. I couldn't add them after the fact as there is no access to the point from underneath, due to the layout design. In fact most of these point motors and switches are entombed for good, but I've not had any problems to date.

[marc smith]

 

 

The difficulty with altering them is that they're only fixed onto cork and foam, so there isn't a hard surface to push against if you want to cut something off. I discovered this the hard way! It's easy to buckle or break the point by applying downward pressure of any kind. I've managed to snip some bits off using Xuron cutters and also a slitting disk but you can't really use a knife. I'm happy enough with the ones that are already ballasted, though, it's just that you can get easier and better results with a bit of modification while the point is still on the workbench.

 

I had a look at Dock Green a few days ago - looks very good, doesn't it.

 

Have you got a dremmel? (other makes are available!)

With a carborundum cutting disc, you wouldn't need so much pressure....

Mind you, the ensuing smell of burning plastic can be pretty awful

 

Cheers again