Switching the feed on a double slip

[Bino]

I have a (Electrofrog) Double Slip installed. I know how to wire the frog polarity but I'm not sure how to wire up a switch for the stock rails to allow switching between different feeds. It did show this on the reverse of the Peco pack but I've lost it. I can't find any advice online. Can anyone help?

[Grovenor]

In this regard there is nothing different about a double slip as against any other track section.

Most DC layouts will need switching so that routes are dfed from the correct controller.

Its impossible to give any simple answer as the design will differ for every layout and the specific control philosophy wanted.

[DCB]

Just treat it as a section with its own  selector switch, one feed to each of the outermost rails.  Double slips are a doddle, its live frog diamonds which are the awkward ones.

[kevinlms]

On 04/03/2023 at 02:21, Bino said:

I have a (Electrofrog) Double Slip installed. I know how to wire the frog polarity but I'm not sure how to wire up a switch for the stock rails to allow switching between different feeds. It did show this on the reverse of the Peco pack but I've lost it. I can't find any advice online. Can anyone help?

It used to be on Peco's website, but now they want you to buy this!

 

https://peco-uk.com/collections/rm-shows-you-how/products/wiring-the-layout-part-3-turnouts-and-crossings

 

Or you can try this, about 25% of the way down.

 

https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical-Page-3.html

 

If you want to be clever, you could replace the switch (contacts D & E in diagram) with a relay, driven by an adjacent point (thrown at the same time), that way you end up with the double slip, automatically connected to adjacent blocks, depending on which way the point is set. Double slips are almost always associated with a standard point connected to at least one leg.

 

The Americans call this an 'X Section'. Here's an example.

 

 

 

It means one less individual switch to operate, unlike DCB's suggestion. But as Grovenor says, it depends on what you want to achieve.

 

Personally, I take the view that a little extra work creating the wiring, makes the layout easier to operate (unnecessary  very short blocks annoys me) - but it's your call.

[ejstubbs]

Those "Peco Shows You How" booklets have been available for years.  Amazon seems to think they first came out in 2009 but I think there were versions of them around well before then.  They're £1 on Peco's web site now - most of mine, bought in model shops around 10 years ago, have 50p stickers on them; that's inflation for you.

 

It might be worth the OP getting in touch with Peco's Technical Advice Bureau https://peco-uk.com/pages/contact-us  They've been helpful in the past when I've mislaid product information leaflets.  They once sent me a PDF of the instructions for a Wills Craftsman kit, complete with cutting templates etc, that I'd removed from the box to pour over at my leisure in a comfy chair, and promptly lost 🙄 (I'd probably put it down too close to one of the hyperspace wormholes that seem infest this house and swallow up objects put to one side for just a minute or two...)

[Colin_McLeod]

13 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

that I'd removed from the box to pour over at my leisure in a comfy chair, and promptly lost 🙄 

 

Replacement comfy chairs are available in most furniture shops. 😁

[5BarVT]

1 hour ago, ejstubbs said:

Those "Peco Shows You How" booklets have been available for years.  Amazon seems to think they first came out in 2009 but I think there were versions of them around well before then.  They're £1 on Peco's web site now - most of mine, bought in model shops around 10 years ago, have 50p stickers on them; that's inflation for you.

I had (maybe still have if I could find them) some from the 60s.  They might even have predated that.

Paul.

[ejstubbs]

I don't know it it will help, but below is a pic of the instructions on the back of the insert card for an SL-90 Insulfrog double slip.  The first section is about wiring the stock rails for different different feeds,  Although the instructions are for the Insulfrog slip, note the section headed DCC Use where it says "...the wiring modification detailed below...effectively wires the slip as though it were Electrofrog".  The way the instructions are presented, it doesn't look as if there is any dependency between the two aspects of wiring the thing up i.e. if the OP's slip is already Electrofrog then the DCC section can be largely ignored/treated as being done anyway, with just the first section being relevant.

 

 

I wired my slip through a four-pole three-way rotary switch, which set the desired route (activated by pressing the push button to fire the relevant point motors from the CDU) and switched the stock rail feeds accordingly.  Circuit diagram below:

 

 

Note that the power feeds and destinations are effectively reversed between the top half of the diagram and the bottom.  The power to the point motors is from the CDU on the left, with the rotary switch routing the power to the correct point motors on the right (A and B are the two sets of points, with A being a crossover formed from an ordinary turnout and one 'half' of the slip, plus a turnout to a headshunt - hence three point motors - and B being another crossover with no trap point).  Conversely, the track power comes in from the right, being taken from the relevant track sections adjacent to the slip, with the rotary switch selecting the correct source of track power to be sent to the slip on the left.  (It would probably be easier to understand with an explanatory diagram or photo of the track layout but I can t lay my hands on such just now I'm afraid.)

 

Bear in mind that the above is for a single slip, and specific to my track layout.  It might need to be modified for a double slip and/or for a different layout of adjacent trackwork but the basic principles are generally, I think.

Edited March 7, 2023 by ejstubbs

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

I had (maybe still have if I could find them) some from the 60s.  They might even have predated that.

Paul.

They were originally (mostly, an early one was written by an Ainsley from the BBC, I think on TV suppression Number 11) written by CJ Freezer and were black and white. I think the earliest ones came out in the late 50s.

The 2009 ones were possibly the first ones to have a bar code on, so Amazon finds that much easier!

[ejstubbs]

I've just found a table that I put together to try to understand how to wire up a double slip in another layout that was probably destined never to be built.  It shows the different possible route combinations, and the combinations that would actually be used/usable, the points positions for each case, and where the track power would come from the slip in each case.  Again, the idea was to use a four-pole three-way rotary switch:

 

 

I find slips pretty confusing, so I almost always have to draw up tables like this when I'm thinking of using one.  Unfortunately, again, I cannot locate the original track plan, but it's simpler in this case with just the slip and a single turnout.

[roythebus1]

On 07/03/2023 at 11:30, kevinlms said:

They were originally (mostly, an early one was written by an Ainsley from the BBC, I think on TV suppression Number 11) written by CJ Freezer and were black and white. I think the earliest ones came out in the late 50s.

The 2009 ones were possibly the first ones to have a bar code on, so Amazon finds that much easier!

The earliest "shows you how" books were certainly out in the late 1950s. they cost about 9d each. I'm not sure if CJ Freezer wrote the originals but he was certainly writing them in 1962.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I think of double slips as two turnouts toe to toe when wiring.

 

Mike.

[Bino]

Many, many thanks for all the replies.  All have been fascinating to read through. 

 

I think I have been unnecessarily confused by the diagram Peco provided on the reverse of the DS package. It showed the method by which the power feed to the DS could be switched with a DPDT switch.  I now don't believe this isn't necessary for my track plan. 

 

My Up, Down and Branch Line all have separate power feeds and are all fed from bus wires. The Station Loop is fed on the BL bus. I think that if I feed the DS from the BL bus, I can operate successfully independent of the main lines.

 

If anyone can spot any flaws in my theory, please comment.