Dean goods chassis

[RobMG]

I recently purchased a 4mm Dean goods etched chassis from High Level models.  I chose this one because people praise it so highly.  However when I received it I was disappointed to find there are no instructions with it.

I then tried to find a means of contacting HL to obtain instructions.

I had an email back to tell me all instructions are online.  There was nothing in the pack to tell me this, just the kit parts.

So I then searched the internet, and searched and searched. I can find nothing.  Now I realise I must be stupid and not looking in the right place. I have again searched, but nothing.

 

I will no doubt send the kit back and ask for a refund.   I am in no way unhappy with the actual kit. It looks superb, but too complicated to attempt without instructions to guide me.

I have built Comet kits previously and had no problems, because they come with instructions. 

Has anyone else had any problems with HL and if so how have you overcome them?

I don't want to be a moaner, I really would love to be able to get on with this model.

 

Rob

[Nick Holliday]

All you need to do is go to the High Level website, and look at downloads and select

https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/_files/ugd/27e471_881f108a2e4744a3ae45c0e71e5d3c88.pdf 

[RobMG]

Thank you Nick,

I have at last found the instructions by looking at frequently asked questions.

I do however feel that had this been suggested on a simple slip of paper in the kit box, I wouldn't have had to sit tearing my hair out searching.

I will not buy another kit from them.   I will go for the cheaper option which I have built several of before.

I understand about small companies, and keeping costs down by not doing this that and the other, but a tiny bit more information would not go amiss.

Having said all that, the kit itself looks great, and I now look forward to building it.

 

Rob

[Gordon A]

All instructions are listed under "Downloads". You should have found this if you had perused the web site in a logical manner.

[Captain Kernow]

30 minutes ago, RobMG said:

I will not buy another kit from them.   I will go for the cheaper option which I have built several of before

Well, hopefully you will have a good time building the chassis. They are somewhat more complicated than Comet or Perseverance (both of which I have also built), but that is because they (a) incorporate more detail and (b) incorporate parts for compensation, should that be your desire (I know that Perseverance also had provision for single-beam compensation).

 

I have some of their other ones under RTR bodies and they are top quality. If you do have a good experience building it and are happy with the results, perhaps that positive experience might help you decide whether to go for another one in due course?

 

 

 

[steviesparx]

4 hours ago, Gordon A said:

All instructions are listed under "Downloads". You should have found this if you had perused the web site in a logical manner.

 

What a pity we are not all so 'logical'....

 

I too would have thought including printed instructions with the kit was most 'logical'.

Edited March 14, 2023 by steviesparx

[davknigh]

A couple of points here. First off, the cost of everything is going up and the price of paper is in there with the rest. Downloadable instructions saves money for the maker and allows them to update instructions as needed, it also allows the use of smaller boxes all of which in the long run saves the buyer money in that the producer does not have to up their prices.

 

Now that you have the instructions do read them a couple of times before starting. Chris’ instructions are very logical and well illustrated, far better than most, and reward the builder with a much easier job when followed to the letter. This is not a reflection on you, BTW, just my own experience from building HighLevel Kits and passed on in the spirit of being helpful. The reward will be superb running and detail.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Gordon A]

Another advantage is that you can read the instructions before you buy.

[steviesparx]

3 hours ago, davknigh said:

A couple of points here. First off, the cost of everything is going up and the price of paper is in there with the rest. Downloadable instructions saves money for the maker and allows them to update instructions as needed, it also allows the use of smaller boxes all of which in the long run saves the buyer money in that the producer does not have to up their prices.

 

Cheers,

 

David

 

You're not really suggesting that a few sheets of A4 are going to make a huge difference in price to an almost £50 kit, are you ? Or require a marked difference in the size of the box ??

 

How about just a simple 'The instructions are online' note maybe ?

 

And when the OP enquired about the instructions, how about a PDF attachment, rather than just 'The instructions are online'.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by steviesparx

[davknigh]

1 hour ago, steviesparx said:

 

You're not really suggesting that a few sheets of A4 are going to make a huge difference in price to an almost £50 kit, are you ? Or require a marked difference in the size of the box ??

 

How about just a simple 'The instructions are online' note maybe ?

 

And when the OP enquired about the instructions, how about a PDF attachment, rather than just 'The instructions are online'.

 

 

Well yes, I am suggesting just that. The instructions for the Dean Goods chassis is 12 pages, 6 double sided. Folding that up and fitting it in a box takes space and adds weight particularly if the package has to travel any distance. HighLevel is not the only maker who has gone this route and they all have one thing in common, they are one man bands who are doing this on their own hook and time and already sail close to the wind with their expenses. Having to buy bigger boxes to be able to fit in instructions means either put prices up or eat the difference and after all they’ve been through some might well say s*d it and move on.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[steviesparx]

Well, the OP has already suggested that they won't purchase another kit from them, all for the want of a few instructions, or indeed the suggestion of where to find the instructions...

 

How many others have done similar ? How many have themselves said 's*d it' and moved on ??

 

Does this mean also that kit building will be unavailable for those without internet access, not internet 'savvy', or not 'capable' of perusing the website ' in a logical manner' ?

[cctransuk]

25 minutes ago, steviesparx said:

Well, the OP has already suggested that they won't purchase another kit from them, all for the want of a few instructions, or indeed the suggestion of where to find the instructions...

 

How many others have done similar ? How many have themselves said 's*d it' and moved on ??

 

Does this mean also that kit building will be unavailable for those without internet access, not internet 'savvy', or not 'capable' of perusing the website ' in a logical manner' ?

 

Suffice to say that High Level are one of the best regarded small suppliers around, and their products are superb.

 

A little investigation of their website would have avoided the perceived necessity for a peevish tantrum of an an opening post.

 

CJI.

[Bucoops]

I wish more suppliers would switch to downloadable instructions. I usually scan paper ones in so I have the readily accessible.

 

Chris at high level is usually extremely helpful, perhaps you caught him on an off-day? The instructions are easy to find IMHO, and as the internet has been around for a few decades now, basic computer usage should be widespread these days really.

[BMS]

And another additional point - on line copies can be updated easily against the alternative of destroying &/or changing obsolete  pre-printed paper.

[Clearwater]

I like online instructions too.  Helps you understand whether its in your skill range or not.  Plus easy to find them again if you want to check a point, search for a word or zoom in to make a picture bigger or whatever.

 

I've not tried a HL chassis but I did follow the instructions for one of their gearboxes.  An excellent set of instructions and despite the complexity I was thrilled when I got a working box at the end.

 

David

[RobMG]

I am sorry to have stirred up a hornets nest, and I do agree with everyone re the quality of the kit . It is as everyone would agree a brilliant piece of engineering.

I do have experience of building etched brass or Nickel silver etched kits.  In the long distant past I scratchbuilt chassis I needed using 020" nickel silver sheet.  I intend doing so for another loco for which a chassis is not available.

 

I did get a little uptight because I didn't find it obvious where to look for instructions. I thought at first they had been forgotten, but I was wrong. 

Somebody the people who do not have access to, or the knowledge to use it the internet, a valid point. what are they to do.

Maybe they wouldn't have bought the kit in the first place, because they might not even know about High level due to not having the internet.

Maybe I should have asked on here first, but I was a little irritated at the time due to other pressures.

I will enjoy building this. just got to get some wheels, and motor.

cheers everyone

[Bernard Lamb]

Brassmasters have been putting very detailed information on line for years. I find it far easier to use and far more comprehensive than a paper version.

Accurascale, who many say are the dogs whatsits, also put the fitting instructions for the items in the detail pack on line. I found the notes for their Deltic excellent and a great help.

My bank has pestered me to go paperless for years.

I think the world is going that way.

It seems to work.

I think it is here to stay so better embrace it.

Bernard 

[DCB]

Instructions are 

On 14/03/2023 at 21:50, Bucoops said:

I wish more suppliers would switch to downloadable instructions. I usually scan paper ones in so I have the readily accessible.

Good idea, I wish I had thought of that before getting grubby finger marks all over my Russel GWR books etc.
I find etched chassis very useful as templates for drilling axle holes etc on thick brass to make robust frames able to stand up the abuse I dish out...   Then I sell the "Template" on ebay.

I am a bit biased against instructions per se as I have bitter memories of Car workshop manuals generally written by people who must have had thinking difficulties and who had probably never seen the vehicle they wrote about, not that I was complaining when applying logic to changing drive shaft oil seals meant that 2 of us could change a pair in 20 minutes when the suggested method had a book time of 65 minutes each side and was an unholy struggle. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by DCB

[Bucoops]

3 hours ago, DCB said:

Instructions are 

Good idea, I wish I had thought of that before getting grubby finger marks all over my Russel GWR books etc.
I find etched chassis very useful as templates for drilling axle holes etc on thick brass to make robust frames able to stand up the abuse I dish out...   Then I sell the "Template" on ebay.

I am a bit biased against instructions per se as I have bitter memories of Car workshop manuals generally written by people who must have had thinking difficulties and who had probably never seen the vehicle they wrote about, not that I was complaining when applying logic to changing drive shaft oil seals meant that 2 of us could change a pair in 20 minutes when the suggested method had a book time of 65 minutes each side and was an unholy struggle. 

 

It does help that I have access to a decent sized scanner at work!

 

I learned long ago that the best workshop manuals for a car you intend to keep for a while are the manufacturer ones. Case in point - Haynes manual for a Saab 99 - about an inch thick including covers. Saab manuals - two volumes, about 2 1/2" thick each!

 

The hard part is getting them!

[Jol Wilkinson]

I prefer printed instructions, easier to use at the workbench than a pc or laptop. If they are only available online I still print them, so no real saving in paper, ink or cost.

 

One kit producer I know only prints the instructions as required from file, so if any alterations are made, they will be included. However, it is my experience that, once produced, instructions are rarely altered. That is invariably the case where there are lots of handmade drawings and original, non-digital copy.

[melmerby]

I suppose if you have a PC with a reasonable size screen, rather than just a smartphone your thoughts on whether things should be online or printed might be different.

 

I often sit at my workbench, which also has my PC witha 24" screen, with instructions on the screen, where available.

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I prefer printed instructions, easier to use at the workbench than a pc or laptop. If they are only available online I still print them, so no real saving in paper, ink or cost.

I do too, being able to lay parts on top of drawings to scale is also handy. But all this presupposes you have a printer. There are many I know that don’t these days due to the cost and only occasional use. And a small screen smart phone isn’t really too much help then.  No easy answer I guess. Just the way things are now.

 

Bob