Dapol Autocoach

[The Johnster]

I’ve ordered my W 37 W from Rails, 15% discount, crimson/cream livery

[gwrrob]

Dapol had an EP sample to be seen today at Stafford, rather nice it looked too.

 

[Edwardian]

From the Dapol website:

 

 

 

 

[The Johnster]

It may be a trick of perspective, bit either the lh buffer is drooping or the rh buffer is sticking up a bit.  Or both.  
 

Just zoomed in, and it’s the rh sticking up.  Rear buffer looks a bit wonky as well.  Zoomed in as far as an iPhone goes, this is superlative as a whole, though; one assumes that the slightly misty windows and very slightly imperfect join between the side and roof (removable roof?) will be sorted on the production model.  Really looking forward to getting mine!

Edited September 27, 2023 by The Johnster

[GeoffBird]

On 22/07/2023 at 02:33, The Johnster said:

I’ve ordered my W 37 W from Rails, 15% discount, crimson/cream livery

 

I have ordered one too, looks super.  But I am a little confused (not unusual!) wgy does one need DCC Sound for an Autocoach? - is it just for the bell on the front.  Anyway, I cant see the bell on the pictures anyway.  I must be missing something.

[coeurdelyon]

Hello, The DCC sound file includes the guards whistle, door closing ,bell codes to driver and fireman, passengers chatting whilst stationary and the Gong (not fitted to the original autocoaches in the lined Chocolate & Cream livery and the lined Crimson Lake livery)

Thanks for your interest, Richard

[GeoffBird]

On 26/09/2023 at 10:10, coeurdelyon said:

Hello, The DCC sound file includes the guards whistle, door closing ,bell codes to driver and fireman, passengers chatting whilst stationary and the Gong (not fitted to the original autocoaches in the lined Chocolate & Cream livery and the lined Crimson Lake livery)

Thanks for your interest, Richard

Thanks for your help.   With the pre-1930s liveried coaches what can be used in RTR to haul them?   Could one put such a coach with the incoming Kernow steam Railmotor?

 

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, GeoffBird said:

Thanks for your help.   With the pre-1930s liveried coaches what can be used in RTR to haul them?   Could one put such a coach with the incoming Kernow steam Railmotor?

 

I very much suspect that substantial quantities will be purchased with exactly that in mind....

 

"Plausible Substitution" in the face of the unavailability of a prototypical trailer?

[Clearwater]

15 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

I very much suspect that substantial quantities will be purchased with exactly that in mind....

 

"Plausible Substitution" in the face of the unavailability of a prototypical trailer?

 

Sounds like one of those irregular verbs:

 

I say its a plausible substitution

You say its rule 1

He says its my train set and I'll run what I want to!

 

[Dunsignalling]

8 hours ago, Clearwater said:

 

Sounds like one of those irregular verbs:

 

I say its a plausible substitution

You say its rule 1

He says its my train set and I'll run what I want to!

 

 

They say, it looks OK so it might be...

 

Rule 1 would be the Rails/Rapido LNER dynamometer car. 🤡

Edited September 28, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[The Johnster]

Geoffbird has highlighted a problem; there is no RTR loco suitable to work with the earlier liveries of the Diagram N.  The real thing worked with railmotors, which used the same auto linkage, and while many of the earlier trailers were designed to partner specific matching railmotors, it is the way of the (railway) world that they mixed themselves up a bit in traffic.  A Dapol N with a contemporarily liveried Kernow railmotor is a perfectly feasible combination. 
 

Locos were used quite early on, though, as the railmotors became victims of their own success and loads increased.  Metros, 517s, 2021s (in saddle and pannier tank forms), and others, none of which have yet appeared as RTR models.  The easiest solution is probably the Stafford Road Models 517 bodyshell, a 3D print marketed through Shapeways to go on a 48xx chassis.  Not everyone would be comfortable with the fully-lined finish needed, though!

 

I would imagine that Dapol, who have certainly been innovative in the last few years and are investing heavily in pre-grouping GWR items, which in itself will generate interest in layouts of this period, are aware if this, and would not at all be surprised to see that a suitable loco is up their planning sleeve; they would need one to run with the 7mm scale N as well of course. We live in hope!

Edited September 28, 2023 by The Johnster

[Hal Nail]

42 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

they would need one to run with the 7mm scale N as well of course.

They must have sold through 5 runs of these?! Whatever the exact number, I doubt they are unduly worried about its commercial prospects by now :)

 

Anyway if we aren't careful with this sort of pre grouping talk the pannier division will bull-dose their way in and turn this into another wishlist!

[The Johnster]

Curses!  Sapristi!  Merde!  Ve are foiled, he has rumbled our evil plan!  Zee jig is up!  All is not yet lost, though, fellow pannieristas, ve can pull the wool over his eyes by pretending to talk about GWR saddle tanks, and then, as soon as his back is turned, claim zat ze Belpaire fireboxes mean zat zey have to be rebuilt, into Ze One True Form Zat Never Offends…

 

Vivat Pannierus!

Edited September 28, 2023 by The Johnster

[Chris 84B]

I have had a chance to have a good look over the Engineering sample as per the pictures on the Dapol website, having done so I am sure I have spotted a couple of anomalies relating to the position of certain Door Handles and Door Grabs. Looking at a side view of the Dapol Autotrailer with the Driving end ( single door) to the left and the double luggage doors to the right hand side, the Passengers door (with the retracting steps beneath it) appears to have the door handle and grab handle placed on the left hand side, whereas photos of actual Diagram N Autotrailers have their handles on the right hand side of the door, as in fact do Dapols' own 7mm model versions! Also the luggage door handle and grab on this side appear to be reversed, with the sample having the grab handle and door handle the wrong way round.

I have hopefully downloaded a couple of images that will be clearer to explain my point better than my ramblings. For reference I have used the John Lewis "GWR Autotrailers Part One" by Wild Swan Publishing and Dapols' own pictures of their 7mm version of the same thing.

PS all other door handles and grabs appear to be correctly positioned as far as I can make out.

 

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

19 hours ago, Clearwater said:

 

Sounds like one of those irregular verbs:

 

I say its a plausible substitution

You say its rule 1

He says its my train set and I'll run what I want to!

 

I always think of Plausible Substitution as "the thinking man's Rule 1"...

 

My excuse and I'm sticking to it! 😉

[The Johnster]

27 minutes ago, Chris 84B said:

I have had a chance to have a good look over the Engineering sample as per the pictures on the Dapol website, having done so I am sure I have spotted a couple of anomalies relating to the position of certain Door Handles and Door Grabs. Looking at a side view of the Dapol Autotrailer with the Driving end ( single door) to the left and the double luggage doors to the right hand side, the Passengers door (with the retracting steps beneath it) appears to have the door handle and grab handle placed on the left hand side, whereas photos of actual Diagram N Autotrailers have their handles on the right hand side of the door, as in fact do Dapols' own 7mm model versions! Also the luggage door handle and grab on this side appear to be reversed, with the sample having the grab handle and door handle the wrong way round.

I have hopefully downloaded a couple of images that will be clearer to explain my point better than my ramblings. For reference I have used the John Lewis "GWR Autotrailers Part One" by Wild Swan Publishing and Dapols' own pictures of their 7mm version of the same thing.

PS all other door handles and grabs appear to be correctly positioned as far as I can make out.

 

 

 

 

That photo can't be right, even if it is by H.C.Casserley.  It never rains in Bridgend...

 

Odd error to make.  The correct positon of the driver's door handles show that it is not a case of photgraphic reversal of the image.  Hopefully to be corrected on the final production model, and not something that would cause me to make a fuss; not difficult to move the offending items to the correct positions.  I'd prefer it to be sorted, all the same!

 

Mr Casserley seems to have been travelling on a Saturday, probably heading for Swansea as the photo is taken out of the window of a train on the down main.  Tondu valleys passenger workings were of two-coach sets during the week, but on Saturdays the traffic into Bridgend for shoppers or daytrips to Porthcawl in summer led to strengtheners being used.  The front buffer beam of the 4575 intrudes at the left of the frame, correctly orientated for smokebox-first working up the valley, and there will be the weekday pairing of trailers behind the bunker.  Auto workings at Bridgend used the Valleys platform, P3, and had to set back to take water from the up main water column, resulting in those trailers being afoul of the up main, so that watering was always carried out with a degree of hurry-up from the signalman!

Edited September 28, 2023 by The Johnster

[Chris 84B]

Like you, it won't bother me so much as I have two on order, and would not be a deal breaker, strange though considering Dapol have already done it correctly on the 7mm versions.

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, Chris 84B said:

 

I have hopefully downloaded a couple of images that will be clearer to explain my point better than my ramblings. For reference I have used the John Lewis "GWR Autotrailers Part One" by Wild Swan Publishing and Dapols' own pictures of their 7mm version of the same thing.

out.

 

 

 

 

 

Just noticed from those pics that the roof ribs seem to be straight rather than curved although I don't know if there were variations.

 

Its sorting the roof ribs when I insert a section, that is currently holding up my 70 foot conversion from a couple of their 7mm ones. 

 

Incidentally that's one of the photos that is captioned "BR maroon", although since it also says "1951 style" it clearly means Crimson!

Edited September 28, 2023 by Hal Nail

[The Johnster]

John Lewis does not make the distinction between 1948-56 BR unlined crimson livery, as applied to non-gangwayed stock while gangwayed stock got crimson & cream (blood & custard) livery, and 1956-9 unlined maroon livery also applied to non-gangwayed stock while gangwayed stock got lined maroon (malachite green for all stock on the Southern Region and a BR version of chocolate & cream for some WR gangwayed stock used on named services).  From 1959-66 all passenger stock got lined maroon livery except for the Southern and WR examples noted above.  TTBOMK the last application of BR(W) chocolate & cream was on a 1962 set of mk1s for the Bristolian, the first coaches fitted with the new B4 100mph bogies.

 

What he means by '1951 style' has a story and needs explanation.  The GW had traditionally painted saloon auto-trailers in the best version of main line livery, perhaps because of the 'saloon' designation.  This continued after nationalisation at Swindon and Caerphilly, so after 1st June 1948 auto-trailers were painted in fully lined out crimson & cream livery as if they were main line coaches.  This was of course not correct procedure, but they got away with it until one day in 1951 when Mr.Riddles was passing through Paddington about his business and noticed one.  He wrote to the WR's General Manager asking for an explanation of what his best mainline express livery was doing on a humble auto-trailer, and the practice ceased at that time.  Of course, the offending trailers were not repainted until such time as they got their next full overhaul, and some probably never carried the unlined crimson livery. 

 

Examples of Diagram N trailers in both blood & custard and plain crimson BR liveries could be seen in service following the 'Paddington incident', but none were repained in 1956 plain maroon livery.  All were scrapped by 1958.

[w124bob]

A couple of months ago I was contemplating selling up my small collection of WR steam, and concentrating on stock suitable for Dewsbury Midland.

Today I now have a Rapido B set and maroon N59 on order, I'm bidding on a 4575 prairie. The Dean goods is on the weathering workbench, to be followed by a Dukedog and the only layout I have is American HO! Dewsbury WR anybody!

[The Johnster]

One of us, one of us...

[Dunsignalling]

I've never seen any direct evidence as to why auto trailers were painted in top-link livery in early BR(w) days.

 

However, I've always suspected that the practice was (perhaps ironically as it turned out) precisely to get them noticed. Many would have customarily been sitting in bay platforms at wayside interchanges when connecting services stopped and more prestigious ones passed through. 

 

The smart turnout might well have been intended to create a good impression (perhaps one of a "corporate image", even) among passengers on those trains.  

 

John

Edited November 27, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[Miss Prism]

6 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I've never seen any direct evidence as to why auto trailers were painted in top-link livery in early BR(w) days.

 

There is some history for this. Back in the early 1930s, new autocoaches and B-sets were given double waist lining, which was ostensibly only for 'express' stock.

 

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

There is some history for this. Back in the early 1930s, new autocoaches and B-sets were given double waist lining, which was ostensibly only for 'express' stock.

 

It's The GWR, everything is standardised, except when it's not.😉

 

[The Johnster]

I have no idea why the top express liveries were used on auto-trailers, or steam railmotors either, and my suggestion that it might have been because of a misunderstanding of their 'saloon' status is merely that, a suggestion.  Auto-trailers came in distinct types, flat-ended non-gangwayed compartent (Clifton Downs, A34, A43/4), and bow-ended open saloons (the very first one was flat-ended).  The saloons were designed to run with SRMs of the same internal layout which were eventually rebuilt as auto-trailers themselves.

 

The saloon types could be further subdivided into 'suburban' and 'branch' types, the difference being parcels van accommodation on the 'branch' trailers.  The older types had passengers entering through the drivers' or guards' doors, but the later pattern was for a separate passenger vestibule in which the guard rode and which separated the smoking and non-smoking accommodation.  Two lengths were used, 70' and various shorter types around the 57-60' mark; the final saloon trailers, the last built new, were the Hawksworth A38/9s, which were 64'.  TTBOMK no 'branch' trailers were 70'. 

 

Saloon trailers and SRMs could also be divided into matchboarded with straight sides, panelled, and all-steel; the matchboarded types were all shorter than 70'.  There were some gangwayed saloon 70' twin-sets for the Plymouth suburbans, and the GW inherited some gangwayed twin-sets from the Taff Vale; these are at the top of my wishlist if anyone's reading this looking for ideas of what to produce that I can guarantee nobody else will have thought of...

Edited October 11, 2023 by The Johnster