Dapol Autocoach

[RonnieS]

When did the last one work as an Auto (I model 58-63)

 

[Hal Nail]

47 minutes ago, RonnieS said:

When did the last one work as an Auto (I model 58-63)

 

last one (W40W) was condemned in Nov 57 according to Lewis

 

The book shows 3 in BR era. 36 and 37 are shown from the rear - both have the guards end totally plated over so no panelling showing but the sides are reasonably unaltered.

 

40 shows the front end which is still panelled at the reported date of 1953. Maybe it was in the best nick hence lasting slightly longer?

Edited March 21, 2023 by Hal Nail

[Mike_Walker]

Just found a picture of W38 at Marlow in 1951 in the Wild Swan Marlow Branch book (p139 if anyone wants to look it up).  Won't put it here due to copyright etc. but it's in either late GWR chocolate and cream with early BR numbering, i.e. W38 not W38W, or BR crimson and cream and is still fully panelled with a full set of toplights although it can't be seen if the end windows have been plated over or not.

[Hal Nail]

2nd pic down in the 50s decade?

 

http://www.mdrs.org.uk/wycmaidmarlow.htm

 

[The Johnster]

There may be a numbering anomaly in the Dapol list of Ns they are producing.  The intended BR liveries are crimson and cream (June 1948-1950) for W 37 W, crimson (1950-1956) for W 36, and maroon (1956-) for W 38.  WR incorrectly (as if they didn't know what they were up to?) painted auto trailers in crimson and cream after June 1948, when the new standard BR coach liveries were introduced, continuing a GW tradition of painting trailers in the best main line livery.  This apparently continued until Mr Riddles spotted one at Paddington one day in 1950 and wrote to the WR's General Manager demanding an explanation of what his best gangwayed passenger express stock livery was doing on a humble autotrailer.  The WR then began applying plain crimson to autotrailers but the existing crimson/cream trailers were left as they were until repainting was due at the next major overhaul.  Some crimson/cream trailers were therefore repainted into directly into maroon livery, carriage stock overhauls taking place about every seven years.

 

The W prefix to the numbers was introduced 1/1/48, but the suffix did not appear until 1950 when the first of the BR standard mk1 coaches were released into service, suffixes being applied to all coaches of non-BR design in order to prevent number duplications.  The WR had several number series for coaching stock anyway, and there were already duplications; I have a 3D Cordon kit of W 38...

 

So, one would expect Ns in the later BR liveries to be more likely to carry the W suffix.  That said, there were cerainly anomalous liveries and numbering during that period, inevitably considering that the livery situation was in something of a state of flux throughout it.  But I believe Dapol may have got their numbering the wrong way around in the published list, and that the crimson/cream trailer should be W 37, the crimson W 36 W, and the maroon W 38 W. 

 

There were some crimson/cream trailers that carried the W suffix, which were presumably painted in the period following the mk1 introduction but before the response to the Riddles 'Paddington' letter.  I have a Hornby A30, W 189 W, in this livery at Cwmdimbath, and W 37 W may be correct for it's condition when it was xfer TDU in August '53.

[tomparryharry]

Just an add-on idea for Dapol... Just an idea....

 

Supposing that Dapol put a set of pickups on this proposed model, just to increase the electrical connectivity on what is in reality, a short train.  I'm sure others have made this in the past..

 

I've got a couple of ex-Airfix auto coaches here, but there's always room for more.

 

 

[Jon Harbour]

Given that it can be ordered DCC sound fitted, we have to assume there are pick-ups fitted. The challenge would be passing that power through to a locomotive that was hauling it. I'm sure something could be figured out though.

[Dunsignalling]

On 21/03/2023 at 18:02, The Johnster said:

There may be a numbering anomaly in the Dapol list of Ns they are producing.  The intended BR liveries are crimson and cream (June 1948-1950) for W 37 W, crimson (1950-1956) for W 36, and maroon (1956-) for W 38.  WR incorrectly (as if they didn't know what they were up to?) painted auto trailers in crimson and cream after June 1948, when the new standard BR coach liveries were introduced, continuing a GW tradition of painting trailers in the best main line livery.  This apparently continued until Mr Riddles spotted one at Paddington one day in 1950 and wrote to the WR's General Manager demanding an explanation of what his best gangwayed passenger express stock livery was doing on a humble autotrailer.  The WR then began applying plain crimson to autotrailers but the existing crimson/cream trailers were left as they were until repainting was due at the next major overhaul.  Some crimson/cream trailers were therefore repainted into directly into maroon livery, carriage stock overhauls taking place about every seven years.

 

The W prefix to the numbers was introduced 1/1/48, but the suffix did not appear until 1950 when the first of the BR standard mk1 coaches were released into service, suffixes being applied to all coaches of non-BR design in order to prevent number duplications.  The WR had several number series for coaching stock anyway, and there were already duplications; I have a 3D Cordon kit of W 38...

 

So, one would expect Ns in the later BR liveries to be more likely to carry the W suffix.  That said, there were cerainly anomalous liveries and numbering during that period, inevitably considering that the livery situation was in something of a state of flux throughout it.  But I believe Dapol may have got their numbering the wrong way around in the published list, and that the crimson/cream trailer should be W 37, the crimson W 36 W, and the maroon W 38 W. 

 

There were some crimson/cream trailers that carried the W suffix, which were presumably painted in the period following the mk1 introduction but before the response to the Riddles 'Paddington' letter.  I have a Hornby A30, W 189 W, in this livery at Cwmdimbath, and W 37 W may be correct for it's condition when it was xfer TDU in August '53.

 

Though it's likely that W suffixes would have been added at the next re-varnishing, even without a livery change.

 

John  

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Jon Harbour said:

Given that it can be ordered DCC sound fitted, we have to assume there are pick-ups fitted. The challenge would be passing that power through to a locomotive that was hauling it. I'm sure something could be figured out though.

 

Conductive NEM couplers with up to 4-way connections are available from a number of sources.

 

John

[The Johnster]

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Though it's likely that W suffixes would have been added at the next re-varnishing, even without a livery change.

 

John  

Yes, but while that might well account for the W suffix on the crimson/cream liveried trailer W 37 W, it  would make it even more likely that crimson W 36 and maroon W 38 ‘should’ have W suffixes.  It may well be of course that this apparent anomaly is simply a printing error in the announcement notice.  It is certainly not going to bother me in the slightest, as I am happy to add the suffixes myself; just thought it was worth pointing out…

[BVMR21]

Is rather exciting this, especially considering the new Rapido Small Prairie that's coming out, be good to run with a Bachmann example me thinks.

[The Johnster]

Mine will certainly be running with Bachmann small prairies, I have two of them renumberd as post-1953 Tondu denizens, 5524 and 5555.  These are my only auto-fitted locos, and I'm very happy with them, which makes it unlikely that I'll shell out for a new Rapido version, especially as I'm going to have to find £160 for the two Dapol Ns I want, which will be W 36 and W 37; I'm only a poor pensioner...

 

I might be persuaded to go for a Rapido 44xx, though.  Tondu had these on the books almost from their introduction until the start of auto services in 1953, to work the very sharply curved Porthcawl Branch, a tramroad formation.  They were allowed 15mph on this branch, everything else was restricted to 5mph.  But we'll see what the bank balance is like when they come out, as TTBOMK these engines never penetrated the mountain fastnesses north of Tondu, and would be a Rule 1 punt at best, so that idea has to be moved down the priority list a bit. 

 

3100, a Collett 1938 large prairie rebuilt from 3150 (no.4 boiler, 5'3" drivers, 220psi pressure, bit of a thug) used on the Porthcawl-Cardiff 'Residential' commuter service, did penetrate the mountain fastnesses, there is a photo of it at Abergwynfi in 1951, which is good enough for me; this is further up the priority list than a 44xx and is in fact in hand, slowly, as a kitbash.  Tbh, there is very little chance of this class ever being available RTR, there were only five built and they were all scrapped after a decade or so of service.  Collett's intention was to rebuild the entire 3150 class to that spec, but the war intervened and Hawksworth ordered more 5101s, the last being delivered in 1950.  The 3150s outlasted the Collett 31xx by several years.  The kitbash will be very much a 'layout model'; Mainline 43xx boiler, Airfix small prairie tanks, running plate, cylinders and motion, Mainlin 56xx cab and bunker, and a much mutilated Bachmann Ivatt 4MT mogul mech!

 

We are wandering a bit; the point of the post is to say that buying the Ns will probably stop me buying a Rapido 44xx, and I can live with that.  The little trains are getting better but more expensive, and I must budget accordingly.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by The Johnster

[rovex]

Two ordered

[MonsalDale]

Did any of these make their way to Ashburton?

[Miss Prism]

This roof profile looks very wrong. There were no straight bits above the shoulders. Strangely, Dapol's 7mm version is o.k., so it's a bit of a mystery why this 4mm version has appeared like this.

 

 

(Image copied from the World of Railways newsletter.)

 

 

[melmerby]

Strange looking bell as well.

The regulator handle looks odd and is not long enough.

 

Even the buffer heads don't quite look the part (being a bit picky on that!)

[The Johnster]

I think the bell's oddness could be something to do with the angle of the coach's bow end, as the drawing is a two-dimensional end flat end elevation while this part of the end is sloping away from the viewpoint, so some odd contortions of apparent perspective are going to show up.  That could be the problem with the 'straight' roof profile as well, though I agree that these roofs were a continous curve between the 'shoulders'.  In other words, Ms P is right to point out the possible anomalies, but they may actually not exist on the three-dimensional physical model.  

 

Have to say the buffers look fine to me, as does the regulator handle, but it is not obvious that this is in fact cylindrical and not a flat bar.

[Michael Hodgson]

8 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

This roof profile looks very wrong. There were no straight bits above the shoulders. Strangely, Dapol's 7mm version is o.k., so it's a bit of a mystery why this 4mm version has appeared like this.

 

 

(Image copied from the World of Railways newsletter.)

 

 

It's pink.  It's got a purple roof and buffers, a green footstep on one side and yellow on the other.

And you say it's the the roof profile that's wrong !  Or did the GWR have a pink period at the same time as Picasso?

[BVMR21]

9 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

This roof profile looks very wrong. There were no straight bits above the shoulders. Strangely, Dapol's 7mm version is o.k., so it's a bit of a mystery why this 4mm version has appeared like this.

 

 

(Image copied from the World of Railways newsletter.)

 

 

There is a slight curve in that picture of the CAD it's just not a very noticeable one, not an expert on the prototype but I can say there is a slight curve.

 

8 hours ago, melmerby said:

Strange looking bell as well.

I think that's down to the angle of the area it is sat on.

[Dunsignalling]

31 minutes ago, BVMR21 said:

There is a slight curve in that picture of the CAD it's just not a very noticeable one, not an expert on the prototype but I can say there is a slight curve.

 

I need a new ruler, then! 😉

 

That CAD exhibits definite "flat shoulders" rather than a proper 3-radius continuous curvature

Edited April 9, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

I need a new ruler, then! 😉

 

 

Same here.

Defintely got flats

The regulator looks to be too short and too fat (bit like me!)

 

1 hour ago, BVMR21 said:

10 hours ago, melmerby said:

Strange looking bell as well.

I think that's down to the angle of the area it is sat on.

Still looks very clunky

[coeurdelyon]

Hello Chaps,

 

I don't normally look at the laptop over holidays, but I am attaching a screenshot of the roof profile as drawings can be deceptive, but just to assure you that the roof is curved without straight sections. Thanks

Enjoy your Easter Sunday, Richard

[The Johnster]

That's reassuring; tx Richard!

 

The shape of autotrailers at the junction of the ends and the roof is complex and, as you say, drawings can be deceptive.  The same can be said about bow-ended stock with domed ends such as Gresleys, Hawkworths, and some dmus.  There's a lot of subtle stuff going on in amongst the perpectives...

[Crichel Down]

I would be happy to pre-order one of these models of the Diagram N autotrailer if I could understand which catologue number applies to which livery variant.  (Am I the only modeller who is confused about this?)

 

Perhaps "coeurdelyon" could clarify Dapol's intentions regarding the livery variants that they intend to offer.  I am unclear whether the fully lined out version of the chocolate and cream livery (1922 to 1927) is one of those to be offered, and if so which catalogue number applies to this variant.   If only the plainer chocolate and cream livery is to be offered (1927 onwards) this would be equally acceptable, but again, I would be grateful to know precisely which catalogue number applies to that variant.

[Hal Nail]

19 minutes ago, Crichel Down said:

Perhaps "coeurdelyon" could clarify Dapol's intentions regarding the livery variants that they intend to offer.

This is off Dapols website:

 

Proposed Liveries

4P-004-001   -   Autocoach GWR 37 Lined Crimson Lake 

4P-004-002   -   Autocoach GWR 40 Lined Chocolate & Cream 

4P-004-003   -   Autocoach GWR Twin Cities Crest 41 Chocolate & Cream 

4P-004-004   -   Autocoach GWR Shirt Button 39 Chocolate & Cream 

4P-004-005   -   Autocoach BR W37W Carmine & Cream 

4P-004-006   -   Autocaoch BR W36 Crimson 

4P-004-007   -   Autocoach BR W38 Maroon   

 

Same terminology used for the existing 7mm ones so you can see what they look like.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Hal Nail