What Locomotives and DMU’s operated from Glasgow Queen Street in early 1970s

[giz]

22 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

I think silver fox makes a kit of those

http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/british-rail-79xxx-swindon-inter-city-dmu/

[Legend]

3 hours ago, Hunslet 102 said:

Hi all, again!

 

I have been very intrigued by the Swindon DMU’s that operated the Glasgow to Edinburgh service up to 1971.

I assume no one has ever produced an RTR version of these units, but has there been anything produced either past or present representing these units from suppliers?

 If nothing were readily available, would there be suitable donor coaches that could be converted to represent these units?

 

 

 

Silver fox has done a kit which comprises body sides and cab ends . They did it for both the original Edinburgh Glasgow units and the later Ayrshire ones . They are not listed in their current lists but I’d give them a call as I think they can do limited runs .  I got a kit for an Ayrshire unit from them . You need donor coaches . I’m thinking of using old Triang- Hornby mk1s . Basically the kits are over lays for the mk1 coaches 

 

Have a look at Signaller69s postings on here . He had a long thread showing amongst other things how he used Trix coaches to make a Swindon unit . He has done both Edinburgh Glasgow and Ayrshire units . Unfortunately a lot of the images have been lost but it is very informative . Inspired by that thread. I did buy Trix coaches and commenced cut and shuts . My initial attempts weren’t too successful but I have enough Trix coaches to try again . I also have spare cabs obtained from Silver Fox , so that I can combine that with the Trix coaches and hopefully make a second three car unit , the first being the actual Silver Fox Kit . Like Signaller69 I will use a Lima 117 to power it . 
 

so, in short , have a look at Signaller69s postings and get in touch with Silver Fox . Keep us posted on how you get on 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Legend

[Hunslet 102]

Thanks GordonC for highlighting Silverfox and thanks giz for supplying the link.

 

Thanks again Legend for your input, it would appear from the link that giz put up that they have listed the DMUs again with the body sides and cab ends available. Probably the route I will choose with suitable donor coaches, although I throughly enjoyed looking at Signaller69s posts. Cutting and shutting a 6 car set is some task, although I intend to follow his instructions for the Thompson buffet coach to try and recreate it.

 

I will keep you informed of progress, although don’t hold your breath for anything quick!

[Legend]

13 hours ago, Hunslet 102 said:

Thanks GordonC for highlighting Silverfox and thanks giz for supplying the link.

 

Thanks again Legend for your input, it would appear from the link that giz put up that they have listed the DMUs again with the body sides and cab ends available. Probably the route I will choose with suitable donor coaches, although I throughly enjoyed looking at Signaller69s posts. Cutting and shutting a 6 car set is some task, although I intend to follow his instructions for the Thompson buffet coach to try and recreate it.

 

I will keep you informed of progress, although don’t hold your breath for anything quick!

yeah that link suggests they are back in stock again . Reasonable price for rtr too . Yeah keep us informed Hunslet . I actually have the kit but as with your progress “don’t hold your breath” 

[Hunslet 102]

37 minutes ago, Legend said:

yeah that link suggests they are back in stock again . Reasonable price for rtr too . Yeah keep us informed Hunslet . I actually have the kit but as with your progress “don’t hold your breath” 

Yes I really like these units, maybe because I was brought up on a diet of railcars (dmu’s)  on NIR! Ironically, they are very similar to the BUT units that ran on NIR at the same time, below are a couple of shots of a typical NIR 3 car set, cut and shut with an MTK full driving end. I think the similarity is what has hooked me!

 

[Legend]

2 hours ago, Hunslet 102 said:

Yes I really like these units, maybe because I was brought up on a diet of railcars (dmu’s)  on NIR! Ironically, they are very similar to the BUT units that ran on NIR at the same time, below are a couple of shots of a typical NIR 3 car set, cut and shut with an MTK full driving end. I think the similarity is what has hooked me!

 

Never knew about these NIR units . But yes very similar with cab at one end !    
 

For me going to Glasgow was always by multiple unit , either by 303/311 emu if that was the first train into platform 4 at Paisley Gilmour St or by 126/107/101 if the first train to Glasgow was Platform 2 . That’s why these units hold an important place for me . 

[Hunslet 102]

4 hours ago, Legend said:

Never knew about these NIR units . But yes very similar with cab at one end !    
 

For me going to Glasgow was always by multiple unit , either by 303/311 emu if that was the first train into platform 4 at Paisley Gilmour St or by 126/107/101 if the first train to Glasgow was Platform 2 . That’s why these units hold an important place for me . 

Yep, get that entirely Legend. 
Gilmour St must have had some varied amount of trains with both electric and non electric lines passing through the station! 

[Matt]

For me it was I think 101s in from Lenzie. As a small child I recall fast trains thundering through (early days of 47 PPs around 1980 I assume) and the excitement that a real train may stop and pick us up only to be disappointed when a dmu appeared in the distance. If memory serves correct I think we once had an HST stop and pick us up due local service being cancelled but this might be my memory playing tricks.

 

as an add-on, mum used to reach the end of her tether with us boys scrapping and would take us to “Lenzie sidings” to watch the trains and get some reprieve. I suspect this was actually Cadder Yard and I recall little blue diesels (25/26/27?) shunting wagons around and keeping us entertained for a bit.

 To this day she can’t fathom what got me interested in railways…!

Edited June 13, 2023 by Matt

[GordonC]

1 hour ago, Hunslet 102 said:

Yep, get that entirely Legend. 
Gilmour St must have had some varied amount of trains with both electric and non electric lines passing through the station! 

 

and all the iron ore and coal MGRs thundering through for Ravenscraig too

[Hunslet 102]

20 minutes ago, GordonC said:

 

and all the iron ore and coal MGRs thundering through for Ravenscraig too

That sounds like a train spotter’s paradise and a modeller’s paradise for such varied stock! Probably more in the reach of a club layout than an individual modeller!

[Hunslet 102]

30 minutes ago, Matt said:

For me it was I think 101s in from Lenzie. As a small child I recall fast trains thundering through (early days of 47 PPs around 1980 I assume) and the excitement that a real train may stop and pick us up only to be disappointed when a dmu appeared in the distance. If memory serves correct I think we once had an HST stop and pick us up due local service being cancelled but this might be my memory playing tricks.

 

as an add-on, mum used to reach the end of her tether with us boys scrapping and would take us to “Lenzie sidings” to watch the trains and get some reprieve. I suspect this was actually Cadder Yard and I recall little blue diesels (25/26/27?) shunting wagons around and keeping us entertained for a bit.

 To this day she can’t fathom what got me interested in railways…!

Nice one Matt! Cadder yard, something I have been doing research on since starting this thread as I live very close to it! Check out Cadder yard on the Railscot site, might bring some memories back for you! At least I can have some freight trip workings on a mainly passenger layout!

[pH]

7 hours ago, Legend said:

 For me going to Glasgow was always by multiple unit , either by 303/311 emu if that was the first train into platform 4 at Paisley Gilmour St or by 126/107/101 if the first train to Glasgow was Platform 2 . 

 

3 hours ago, Hunslet 102 said:

Yep, get that entirely Legend. 
Gilmour St must have had some varied amount of trains with both electric and non electric lines passing through the station! 

 

1 hour ago, GordonC said:

 

and all the iron ore and coal MGRs thundering through for Ravenscraig too

That makes me feel very old! I remember when all the Gourock/Wemyss Bay line trains were still steam-hauled. The first change was the use of DMUs on Sundays. And while the GSWR side had the class 126s to Ayr, there was still a fair amount of steam haulage there as well. 
 

I used to travel from Gourock to Glasgow on weekdays. The train from Gourock was a Fairburn tank with 8 coaches. It called at Gilmour Street at the same time as a train on the Sou’west side made up of a Standard 4 tank and 6 coaches. Crews would often wait for the second train of the pair to get the “right away” and then race along the (then) 4-track Joint Line until the Gourock train had to slow for a stop at Hillington West.

[kevinlms]

I lived in Bishopbriggs 1968 to early 1972 and remember the DMU's running past my school and also push-pull trials. Only extremely rarely caught the train, because in those days, the station only had a couple of trains stop in AM peak inbound and again PM peak outbound. So had to go on the bus to central Glasgow.

I believe I still have some pocket timetables from the period. Don't know where at present, so I'll have to look for them. Might take a while to find!

[Legend]

12 hours ago, GordonC said:

 

and all the iron ore and coal MGRs thundering through for Ravenscraig too

oh yes , pairs of class 37s in these days . They fair shook the station when they went through . Not sure Paisley Gilmour Street is ideal layout material if doing it prototypically . You would need a lot of space and there was no real shunting /marshalling , just trains passing through .  Latterly we did have 27s and 47s on the Stranraer trains with these multicoloured Sealink coaches  and the stock of the “night rider” passed through on the 17.12 from Glasgow to Ayr commuter express for a bit of variety . 
 

Paisley Gilmour St was a great station , and still is architecturally . One of the great things about it from 1977 on was it had McKay Models below it . Used to pop in for magazines and catalogues . 
 

If modelling Paisley I always thought Canal St would be better bet  , with its adjoining freight yard .. Class 101/107/116 on the Kilmacolm trains , with these 37s occasionally going the long way round to Hunterston 

 

Good nostalgia thread this one . I can just remember steam trains on the Gourock line , Mum always giving me the choice of going on steam train to Central or Diesel to St Enoch ( she was probably pretending I had a choice and we ended up getting the first train anyway) . I remember when the first blue trains arrived . I wanted a model of one and for Christmas got the Triang- Hornby AL1 . Well it was blue and had three windows at the front . Bliss to a 5 year old who didn’t know anything different ! 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Legend

[pH]

3 hours ago, Legend said:

Not sure Paisley Gilmour Street is ideal layout material if doing it prototypically . You would need a lot of space and there was no real shunting /marshalling , just trains passing through .  

There had been some opportunity for shunting at the west end at one time. There was a parcels platform on the north side of the Gourock line:

 

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/20/549/

 

There was a siding between the routes at Stoneybrae - you can see the buffer stop at the left of that picture. I don’t know what it was used for - I do have a vague memory of what I think was a WD sitting in it one evening.

 

And, from maps, there were a couple of short sidings on the south side of the Ayr line - maybe parcels again?

 

Anyway, this topic is supposed to be about Queen Street 🤨.

[Hunslet 102]

12 hours ago, kevinlms said:

I lived in Bishopbriggs 1968 to early 1972 and remember the DMU's running past my school and also push-pull trials. Only extremely rarely caught the train, because in those days, the station only had a couple of trains stop in AM peak inbound and again PM peak outbound. So had to go on the bus to central Glasgow.

I believe I still have some pocket timetables from the period. Don't know where at present, so I'll have to look for them. Might take a while to find!

Thanks Kevin, would be interested to view a timetable if you found them!

[Hunslet 102]

5 hours ago, pH said:

 

 

Anyway, this topic is supposed to be about Queen Street 🤨.

Haha pH, I know, but I really enjoy the nostalgia and the memories it jogs for those contributing. Very enlightening and informative for me also, for instance, despite living in Scotland for over 30 years, I never knew Paisley had another station other than Gilmour Street!

[pH]

15 minutes ago, Hunslet 102 said:

I never knew Paisley had another station other than Gilmour Street!

Gilmour Street, St James, Canal, West and Abercorn (at least) were all active passenger stations in Paisley at some time. Plus some passenger stations built but not opened and several goods/mineral depots.

[Hunslet 102]

9 hours ago, Legend said:

oh yes , pairs of class 37s in these days . They fair shook the station when they went through . Not sure Paisley Gilmour Street is ideal layout material if doing it prototypically . You would need a lot of space and there was no real shunting /marshalling , just trains passing through .  Latterly we did have 27s and 47s on the Stranraer trains with these multicoloured Sealink coaches  and the stock of the “night rider” passed through on the 17.12 from Glasgow to Ayr commuter express for a bit of variety . 
 

Paisley Gilmour St was a great station , and still is architecturally . One of the great things about it from 1977 on was it had McKay Models below it . Used to pop in for magazines and catalogues . 
 

If modelling Paisley I always thought Canal St would be better bet  , with its adjoining freight yard .. Class 101/107/116 on the Kilmacolm trains , with these 37s occasionally going the long way round to Hunterston 

 

Good nostalgia thread this one . I can just remember steam trains on the Gourock line , Mum always giving me the choice of going on steam train to Central or Diesel to St Enoch ( she was probably pretending I had a choice and we ended up getting the first train anyway) . I remember when the first blue trains arrived . I wanted a model of one and for Christmas got the Triang- Hornby AL1 . Well it was blue and had three windows at the front . Bliss to a 5 year old who didn’t know anything different ! 

Anyway, going off topic myself, was St Enoch a through or terminus station. I know the lines north went to Queens Street, I assume those south went to Central?

One of the NIR 70 class sets also received that Sealink livery!

 I have heard about these blue trains, was there something special about them 

[Hunslet 102]

3 minutes ago, pH said:

Gilmour Street, St James, Canal, West and Abercorn (at least) were all active passenger stations in Paisley at some time. Plus some passenger stations built but not opened and several goods/mineral depots.

Wow, thanks, I didn’t think Paisley was that big!

[Type 2]

1 hour ago, Hunslet 102 said:

Anyway, going off topic myself, was St Enoch a through or terminus station. I know the lines north went to Queens Street, I assume those south went to Central?

One of the NIR 70 class sets also received that Sealink livery!

 I have heard about these blue trains, was there something special about them 

St Enoch was a terminus station, built by the G&SWR, later LMS.  The 'north'  lines went over the Saltmarket & Glasgow Cross to meet the NBR (LNER) lines out of Queen Street Low Level at Bellgrove which gave access to Airdrie/Bathgate and the High Level Edinburgh and West Highland routes at Cowlairs

 

The 'south' lines went over the Clyde to link up with the CR (LMS) Kilmarnock/Carlisle line out of Central at Strathbungo, and at Shields Road where the CR (LMS) lines from Central to Paisley/Ayrshire/Clyde Coast merged.

 

I recommend looking at the NLS website for an idea of the railways that Glasgow used to have

Edited June 14, 2023 by Type 2

[Hunslet 102]

1 hour ago, Type 2 said:

St Enoch was a terminus station, built by the G&SWR, later LMS.  The 'north'  lines went over the Saltmarket & Glasgow Cross to meet the NBR (LNER) lines out of Queen Street Low Level at Bellgrove which gave access to Airdrie/Bathgate and the High Level Edinburgh and West Highland routes at Cowlairs

 

The 'south' lines went over the Clyde to link up with the CR (LMS) Kilmarnock/Carlisle line out of Central at Strathbungo, and at Shields Road where the CR (LMS) lines from Central to Paisley/Ayrshire/Clyde Coast merged.

 

I recommend looking at the NLS website for an idea of the railways that Glasgow used to have

Thank you very much Type 2, much appreciated and very informative. Thanks for the NLS link, great following the railway lines on it that were once there.

Am I right in thinking that Buchanan Street was also a terminus station and that the line met the line out of Queen Street in the tunnel?

[Jeremy Cumberland]

11 minutes ago, Hunslet 102 said:

Am I right in thinking that Buchanan Street was also a terminus station and that the line met the line out of Queen Street in the tunnel?

They didn't meet. The Caledonian line from Buchanan Street was still on the surface (just) as it passed over the top of the North British in Cowlairs Tunnel. This 25 inch map shows things clearly: https://maps.nls.uk/view/82891728

[Matt]

9 minutes ago, Hunslet 102 said:

Thank you very much Type 2, much appreciated and very informative. Thanks for the NLS link, great following the railway lines on it that were once there.

Am I right in thinking that Buchanan Street was also a terminus station and that the line met the line out of Queen Street in the tunnel?

Buchanan Street was also a terminus. I don’t believe the lines met in the tunnel so much as they were developed as competing systems with Buchanan St being the Caley’s terminus and servicing their line to Edinburgh and also the Callander and Oban line amongst others.  It and Queen St generally served the north / east with GQS being the NBRs terminus.

In very simple terms St Enoch and central were sort of similar competing for traffic from south being built by competing companies (GSWR and Caley respectively).  In effect cuts led to all south and west traffic being concentrated into Central, and all north traffic being concentrated into GQS and other stations closed.

[pH]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

In very simple terms St Enoch and central were sort of similar competing for traffic from south being built by competing companies (GSWR and Caley respectively).  In effect cuts led to all south and west traffic being concentrated into Central, and all north traffic being concentrated into GQS and other stations closed.

If you want to go way back, when opened, Buchanan Street was the Caledonian Railway’s Glasgow terminus for traffic from England. 
 

The first time I visited Buchanan Street, in summer 1962, I saw what I believe was a last remainder of that routing into Buchanan Street - 77006 of Hamilton shed on a Buchanan Street to Hamilton local. That service was withdrawn very soon after that.

Edited June 15, 2023 by pH
Missing word.