Why Americans fell in love with big Trucks...and it's exactly why you think it is

[woodenhead]

Interesting presentation on how American car manufacturers played the Government to create a class of vehicle that did not need to care about the environment, or people and now everyone (well of a persuasion) thinks they need one.

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by woodenhead
SUVs are not trucks

[OnTheBranchline]

I want a minivan rather than an SUV - I have no shame. 

[Ozexpatriate]

3 hours ago, OnTheBranchline said:

I want a minivan rather than an SUV

Having owned a minivan for a time, (as the video goes to great length to point out) there is no comparison to a minivan for hauling people or (clean) stuff. (Full-bed pick-ups are still better for dirt/rocks.)

 

There was a time (late 1990s - early 2000s) where they were the dominant US family vehicle - before the ubiquity of SUVs. I loved the mid-row 'captain's chairs'. Practical features like stowable* seats, rear grocery bins and built-in vacuum cleaners are great. (Removing the seats in my minivan required lifting.)

 

* Chrysler Stow 'n Go®. 

[Martino]

The ‘problem’ is not SUVs, but trucks.   It would seem that the possession of a an increasingly huge truck is some sort of masculine right here.  A bit like possession of various firearms.   My experience of friends and acquaintances is that 50% say they ‘need’ a truck to transport and tow stuff, however they rarely do either.   The others 50% use trucks as the US equivalent of the UK white van - a general purpose work vehicle.  The problem is that they are getting bigger and bigger and their front ends are increasingly unfriendly to other vehicle and of cours e pedestrians.

Regrettably many SUVs are based on the truck chassis (or frame). Again, people buy these because they apparently need an off road or 4WD vehicle. But they are generally lacking in off road capability, even if they were taken off road.

The smaller SUVs have taken over from the estate car or even commodious hatchbacks.

 

Me?  I live 1900’ up a mountain in Georgia, so we genuinely do have snow and other conditions that need a 4WD.  Hence the ‘small’ Range Rover with a small engine. Often referred to by the locals as either a British Jeep or a truck (the insult!) We also have minivan for  transporting ‘stuff’ and our two Collies.

 

I live in fear of being T boned by a big truck which always seem to take up three quarters of our mountain roads.  Even worse are the ‘Dualies’ with their flared rear arches!

[number6]

A Man Pram. 
 

Learnt that the other day. 

[Ozexpatriate]

9 hours ago, Martino said:

Again, people buy these because they apparently need an off road or 4WD vehicle. But they are generally lacking in off road capability, even if they were taken off road.

I found the video (which I'm guessing was presented by a Canadian living in the Netherlands) a bit hyperbolic in places, but I'd agree that most people in the US who buy large SUVs, don't take them off-road and don't need 4WD.

 

9 hours ago, Martino said:

The smaller SUVs have taken over from the estate car or even commodious hatchbacks.

I walked past a Buick Encore yesterday. It is described as a "small SUV", but is better described as a subcompact crossover - which I'd label as a CUV (crossover utility vehicle). I was surprised just how small it is.

 

There's not really much difference between a hatchback and a CUV, other than, perhaps, bigger wheels.

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Ozexpatriate
Spelling

[OnTheBranchline]

5 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Having owned a minivan for a time, (as the video goes to great length to point out) there is no comparison to a minivan for hauling people or (clean) stuff. (Full-bed pick-ups are still better for dirt/rocks.)

 

There was a time (late 1990s - early 2000s) where they were the dominant US family vehicle - before the ubiquity of SUVs. I loved the mid-row 'captain's chairs'. Practical features like stowable* seats, rear grocery bins and built-in vacuum cleaners are great. (Removing the seats in my minivan required lifting.)

 

* Chrysler Stow 'n Go®. 

 

So my in-laws decided to go from a 2 row midsize SUV to a 3 row SUV because they want to carry grandkids and they bought one from their car salesman who's a family friend. But the SUV turned out to be smaller on the inside than what they thought because the pram barely fits in the back because the 3rd row cuts into the trunk and the car seats for the grandkids can only go in the 2nd row. I knew that the SUV that they bought would be a bit small for their needs (but in fairness, the other 3 row on offer was a massive gas-guzzler which was too big for them for 99% of the time not carrying grandkids.

 

When my wife suggested a minivan, my in-laws said that they don't make them anymore which is true for that certain car manufacturer and my in-laws only buy from this car manufacturer.

Brand loyalty is the one of greatest insanity ever known to man.

[OnTheBranchline]

5 hours ago, Martino said:

The ‘problem’ is not SUVs, but trucks.   It would seem that the possession of a an increasingly huge truck is some sort of masculine right here.  A bit like possession of various firearms.   My experience of friends and acquaintances is that 50% say they ‘need’ a truck to transport and tow stuff, however they rarely do either.   The others 50% use trucks as the US equivalent of the UK white van - a general purpose work vehicle.  The problem is that they are getting bigger and bigger and their front ends are increasingly unfriendly to other vehicle and of cours e pedestrians.

Regrettably many SUVs are based on the truck chassis (or frame). Again, people buy these because they apparently need an off road or 4WD vehicle. But they are generally lacking in off road capability, even if they were taken off road.

The smaller SUVs have taken over from the estate car or even commodious hatchbacks.

 

Me?  I live 1900’ up a mountain in Georgia, so we genuinely do have snow and other conditions that need a 4WD.  Hence the ‘small’ Range Rover with a small engine. Often referred to by the locals as either a British Jeep or a truck (the insult!) We also have minivan for  transporting ‘stuff’ and our two Collies.

 

I live in fear of being T boned by a big truck which always seem to take up three quarters of our mountain roads.  Even worse are the ‘Dualies’ with their flared rear arches!

 

My brother-in-law bought a big truck but he doesn't need it as a care worker in a nursing home (I don't even think he's used the outside bed for anything). He bought it because his friend has a truck and trucks are what people in the area buy (farming community, my father-in-law has a truck but he definitely uses it)..

[jjb1970]

A few years ago we had a Toyota Verso MPV, and although it could never be called a drivers car it was practical, with loads of space and a great family car. When the kids were small it was perfect. The weird bit was the engine, it had the Toyota 1.8vvti engine. In the Verso it was a bit anaemic, adequate and perfectly fine for that type of car but performance was nothing to get excited about. However, it was a very impressive engine and even in the Verso you could feel the performance boost at high revs, in a lightweight sporty car it would be a fantastic engine.

 

I must admit we were close to going for a 'soft roader' for our last car. It's the core market all the car manufacturers now chase and the vehicles are pretty impressive even if a regular estate or saloon/hatchback (depending on whether you need a big boot) is still more sensible for most. However, most of them now seem to be fwd, I suspect very few customers pay the extra for 4wd, and only a handful seem to offer off-road packs if people really want to go off road.

[Hroth]

@OnTheBranchline Brand loyalty can be "excused" to a certain extent where cars are concerned. Manufacturers often have a consistent "design language" across their ranges, particularly in the layout, shape and feel of the cockpit, people who cling to a brand often do so because they feel comfortable and at home when they sit in the driving seat.

 

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

@OnTheBranchline Brand loyalty can be "excused" to a certain extent where cars are concerned. Manufacturers often have a consistent "design language" across their ranges, particularly in the layout, shape and feel of the cockpit, people who cling to a brand often do so because they feel comfortable and at home when they sit in the driving seat.

 

That can definitely help. I'd never driven anything bigger than a Focus when I had to hire a Transit once, so I was somewhat apprehensive about driving something van-sized. Pretty much the same layout and feel helped (although I kept trying to glance at the non-existent mirror).

Edited April 6, 2023 by Reorte

[davknigh]

It’s all about the ability to intimidate. Driving in North America is regulated by individual states or provinces and the standards vary greatly. I drive a Toyota Corolla and often find myself looking in the rear view mirror at the grille of a pickup or an SUV with no idea of what the driver of the other vehicle looks like. The laughable part is these “mighty movers” is the way they turn off the road into parking lots at a bare crawl for fear of I don’t know what. As mentioned before, the vast majority never engage the 4WD and rarely go anywhere more adventurous than the back of a WalMart parking lot. Interestingly I have noticed the number of roll-over accidents has soared since the arrival of these beasts with them being the frequent victims.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[teaky]

It took me a moment to realise what Americans mean by minivan.

 

Not one of these.

 

[New Haven Neil]

No, more of a Biggy-van, in English English.

[teaky]

To think, only a few decades ago we went to all the trouble of mandating high level brake lights so you got advance warning when a car several vehicles ahead braked and now you can hardly see beyond the ULV* in front.

 

* Unnecessarily Large Vehicle.

[Flying Pig]

18 hours ago, Martino said:

The ‘problem’ is not SUVs, but trucks.

 

Nope, over here in Blighty, the problem (no quotes because it really is a problem) is SUVs, although trucks are increasingly popular amongst the genitally insecure.

 

A major issue with SUVs in countries that weren't hacked out of virgin prairie ten minutes ago is that they are too fecking big for the environments they infest. 

[woodenhead]

I remember considering a Kia Sportage a few years back, looked very big compared to my then car and it seemed to have armchairs for seats.

 

However, when it came to space for suitcases - hardly any so I bought a C-Max instead and didn't regret it one bit.

 

Now I realise the Kia Sportage is only a tiny bit bigger than most normal cars, and there are lots of other bigger SUVs about in the UK of the BMW/Audi/RangeRover persuasions in the middle of a city.

 

[Wheatley]

49 minutes ago, Flying Pig said:

 

Nope, over here in Blighty, the problem (no quotes because it really is a problem) is SUVs, although trucks are increasingly popular amongst the genitally insecure.

 

A major issue with SUVs in countries that weren't hacked out of virgin prairie ten minutes ago is that they are too fecking big for the environments they infest. 

SUVs only make sense when used for their original intended design brief. Just for the record, that was for a vehicle for gentlemen farmers which could carry as many pigs, bales of hay or sacks of sheep nuts as one's Land-Rover, but (suitably hosed out and disinfected) also wouldn't disgrace the car park at whichever hotel or country club the local worthies were congregating in that weekend. The result was the Range Rover. 

 

After that it all went the way of Barbour Jackets, Dunlop wellies and Labradors - townies discovered them, the manufacturers realised that towny fashionistas bought a lot more crap they didn't need than farmers did, and rather lost the plot in the rush to separate idiots from their money. Now all the farmers around here drive Subarus and Hiluxes.    

 

I'll fess up here and admit to owning a deisel Land-Rover. My excuse is that I don't use it to nip to the shops in, and it's older than I am and in a permanent state of repair/refurbishment so falls into the 'pointless but necessary' category, like steam locomotives. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Wheatley

[jpendle]

2 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

No, more of a Biggy-van, in English English.

Not really.

 

Mini Van

That's not a van .......

 

This is a van.

 

 

Vans are very popular in Utah for some reason 🙂

 

John P

[johnofwessex]

I was in Bath with my youngest today in my trusty Kia Ceed estate.

 

In the car park the SUV drivers were acting like they were trying to moor the QE2 in St Ives, they were so stupidly big.

[Hroth]

33 minutes ago, jpendle said:

Not really.

 

Mini Van

That's not a van .......

 

This is a van.

 

 

Vans are very popular in Utah for some reason 🙂

 

John P

 

Top one looks like a largeish MPV, probably ok for the largeish family, the white van looks as if it would be useful in the hire market for stag do's/hen parties...

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Hroth
spelin...

[peach james]

43 minutes ago, jpendle said:

 

 

This is a van.

 

 

Vans are very popular in Utah for some reason 🙂

 

John P

Hey, don't knock it.  I own one of them...mind, in 8 pax version, not 12 (2 rows of seats).  It works bloody well as a pickup truck- if the stuff is horrible enough, it goes in the trailer.  If it is clean, it can go in the back- I get 10' by 4' inside the back, so more size than a typical pickup truck !

Next vehicle will be a Mercedes Passenger Sprinter, as I would like a replacement for my 13 year old van.  I do tow a trailer with the 4" traction engine (so `3000 lb or so), and have towed up to what the capacity I have set up for.

It also transports the full club layout & 1/2 the lego layout at the same time...and 4 operators.  Still more efficient than the "yorkshire town" enlarger system 

James
 

[Ozexpatriate]

3 hours ago, teaky said:

It took me a moment to realise what Americans mean by minivan.

3 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

No, more of a Biggy-van, in English English.

The traditional full-size van was like this:

 

1983 Chevy Vandura (A-Team replica).

 

The 'original' minivan (from 1984) was this:

Which is much much smaller.

 

They did get larger (and substantially better powered*) over time but kept the "minivan" distinction from the full-size vans.

 

* Original base models had a 4-cylinder engine and were dreadful with an automatic transmission.

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Ozexpatriate

[burgundy]

Are big vans more socially acceptable if they have a cab, domes and chimney?

Best wishes

Eric

[SteveyDee68]

Had a Toyota Verso - seven seats, and a good luggage space when in 5 seat configuration. Then part exchanged it after 20 years for a Toyota Prius+ - again, another 7 seater but this one still had a decent-ish load space when seven seats in use. With the usual 5, it had a really good sized boot, and with the rear seats dropped it was like having a full blown estate car. Bonus was the hybrid engine and zero tax! My fuel costs dropped considerably!

 

Then came the pandemic… due to complete lack of income, took the six month payments holiday offered, expecting to pay an additional six months of payments at the end. Ah, no - they wanted the final payment at the end of the lease period, plus the outstanding six months of payments! Having literally started a new job and having not yet been paid, it was a non-starter so asked about refinancing (to carry on paying for my Prius+). Not a problem, except they wanted 3 months of back payments in order to refinance, plus a 5% admin charge on the refinance sum!

 

First time in my life that purchasing a brand new car turned out to be the least expensive way of continuing to own a car to use to get to work! 
 

Got a *very* good trade in price (low mileage - it didn’t go anywhere for nearly a year!!) and chose the new Yaris X (cross) which is a slightly bigger version of the new Yaris but styled as a mini SUV. Besides the latest hybrid engine*, the main factor IN choosing it was that the load space was flat** when folded, whereas all other Toyotas (other than the massive (and expensive) RAV4 and the even more massive (and much more expensive) bZ4X all electric SUV) have ‘stepped’ load spaces, no good for someone transporting a long keyboard in the back!
 

I loved my Prius+, especially the heated seats and automatically folding in wing mirrors. The new car may be smaller in length, but the higher driving position does allow you to see and therefore predict what the numpties in front are doing in their indicator-less vehicles***

 

Steve S

 

* But no longer zero road tax rated 🤬

** Except the adjustable boot base is made of something only a fraction stronger than cardboard!! When in the higher position (to create the flat load space) it bends/folds alarmingly; I’ve not risked loading my keyboard amp in the higher position - it would fold the boot “floor” in two!!

*** You know which makes of car I am referring to!