Reinvigorating model shops: AI suggestions.

[BachelorBoy]

7 minutes ago, Gatesheadgeek said:

As I say, I’m not suggesting additional hours for shops. All I’m suggesting is that an experiment of opening on slightly different hours on one day a week (even one day/month),

That sounds like a sensible suggestion.

[melmoth]

53 minutes ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

I think there is merit in smaller shops having at least one late-night weekday opening day.

 

I'm in Bridport, which is not by any means a 24/7 sort of place. Apart from the supermarkets and convenience stores, only the library is open later than 6, and then only one night per week. Sunday opening is pretty much non-existent too, apart from a pet shop and the hardware store.

 

Quote

When I worked in libraries, we ensured that all the libraries throughout our patch had at least one late-night weekday opening day. The 10am - 3pm opening times, mentioned above, surely exclude a lot of potential customers.

 

Before Covid struck, we were open 7 hours a day, 6 days a week (9.30 - 4.30, normally).  Like a lot of businesses we reopened cautiously (10-3, 5 days a week, closed Thursday), but soon found we were taking as much money in 25 hours as we were previously taking in 42. We've expanded the times slightly since, but are still taking more money in fewer hours. As I said above, this is probably the best balance given my personal circumstances. I have been thinking of starting later on one day a week and staying open a bit longer, but that would probably still only end up being 11 til 5 or thereabouts.

 

[AY Mod]

4 hours ago, MyRule1 said:

when @Phil Parker and  @AY Mod go on holiday could they be replaced by AI to see what happens?

 

They left 3 months ago. You've been arguing with a tin box all this time.

[Type 2]

52 minutes ago, Gatesheadgeek said:

Closure of the local shops for exhibitions has happened several times already this year. It’s not a one-off. I’ve looked a couple of times recently wanting to go but have been foiled on the days I was able to. 
 

As I say, I’m not suggesting additional hours for shops. All I’m suggesting is that an experiment of opening on slightly different hours on one day a week (even one day/month), and advertising it in the modelling press, might just encourage new customers and might bring a higher return for those later hours than, say 0900-1100. If not then they can go back to normal hours.
 

There are lots of comments about modellers using the internet rather than bricks and mortar stores. The businesses I use in person, including small businesses, either have opening times that make it possible alongside a busy 9-5 job (e.g. late opening/reliable weekend opening) or are located centrally so that I and many others can visit. People DO want to use small businesses, but it’s very hard to do so when they’re not open at times they are able to visit. 

This then brings up the which day do that stay open late question.  Whatever day they choose there will be a group of people who that doesn't suit.  There is no quick fix for this, hence make a special effort to go visit the shop at the times the currently open.

 

Those shops who close for the weekend to attend exhibitions deserve a special mention.  They more often than not are extremely busy in the run up to the exhibition, getting stock ready etc.  They'll then spend a day packing a van, travelling, unpacking and setting up a stand.  The next 2 days will be spent trying to sell enough product to cover the cost of shutting up shop for a couple of days, fuel, accommodation, food and the cost of their pitch, and possibly van hire if they don't have their own.  Then they'll have do it all in reverse and re-stock whatever items into the shop, all outside their normal working hours.   

 

I don't think it's too much to ask to adjust your own commitments to arrange a visit to your local shop within their normal business hours.

 

 

[BachelorBoy]

18 minutes ago, Type 2 said:

I don't think it's too much to ask to adjust your own commitments to arrange a visit to your local shop within their normal business hours.

 

 

I do. 

 

[Phil Parker]

2 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

I do. 

 

 

It depends on how you view a model shop. If you think of them like a major supermarket, then it's fine to expect them to be open all day, every day. Supermarkets don't care about you, and won't make any effort to look after you much either, you're just a number to them.

 

Most model shops are tiny businesses which we build a greater, personal relationship with. Cutting them a bit of slack isn't (IMHO) too much to ask. I can see the benefits of a single late-night opening, but appreciate that this is going to be a balancing act for the owner to fit in with the rest of their life too.

 

It's all a matter of perspective.

[BachelorBoy]

2 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

It depends on how you view a model shop. If you think of them like a major supermarket, then it's fine to expect them to be open all day, every day. Supermarkets don't care about you, and won't make any effort to look after you much either, you're just a number to them.

 

Most model shops are tiny businesses which we build a greater, personal relationship with. Cutting them a bit of slack isn't (IMHO) too much to ask. I can see the benefits of a single late-night opening, but appreciate that this is going to be a balancing act for the owner to fit in with the rest of their life too.

 

It's all a matter of perspective.

 

Fair points.

 

But it's also a matter of balance: does the model shop need me as a customer more than I need to be a customer at the model shop?

 

I do think one or two days a week opening late is a good compromise.

 

I'd be interested to hear from any current/ex-operators of model shops on how much business they do before lunch.

 

 

 

[Widnes Model Centre]

2 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

 

I do think one or two days a week opening late is a good compromise.

 

I'd be interested to hear from any current/ex-operators of model shops on how much business they do before lunch.

 

 

 

We opened until 8pm, one day a week for a trial period. Other locally owned shops, the bike shop, the reptile shop, hairdressers and a cafe all stayed open until 8pm the same day. It was a total failure in terms of sales, but regular customers would arrange to meet in the shop and discuss their latest projects with like minded individuals. It became more of a ‘Club meet’. For financial reasons we had to discontinue the late night opening. All the other businesses did the same. We all tried.

 

The vast majority of our business is before lunch. This changes to after lunch on Saturdays.

[johnlambert]

On 05/05/2023 at 14:39, jjb1970 said:

I think there'll always be shops (well, for my life time) but the question is how they compete with on-line retailing and when more and more people go on-line as a default.

 

An analogy might be physical music, advocates of vinyl point to increasing sales as proof that people want physical media yet as a percentage of total music revenue it is minor (most people stream and don't buy music anymore). That isn't to say records are dead, or buying music is dead, but both concepts are a niche. So physical shops have a place, the question is how many people really want to go to the shop vs. shopping on-line. Clothing has lagged behind other segments as people still like to try on clothes and see them in person, but even that segment seems to be seeing steadily increasing on-line sales.

 

And for a shop, the issue isn't so much footfall as sales. How many people wander around a model shop and then go off to order what they want from a box shifter? The box shifters generally have physical shops, do they share what percentage of their sales is physical retail vs. on-line? Genuine question, it might be interesting to see figures.

 

I can't say that this is something I've done as a customer, certainly not with any regularity or frequency.  Generally, if I'm in a shop and they have what I want/need and the price is reasonable (doesn't have to be the cheapest) I'll buy then and there because I get the pleasure and use of having the thing immediately.  It also helps me feel that the trip to the shop is worthwhile.  With model shops I'll seldom go unless I need something (e.g. paint, glue, styrene), or I know that they've got something I want in stock.  But I'll often come away buying more than I planned.

 

 

10 hours ago, melmoth said:

 

Indeed (my bold above). As both the proprietor of a small retail business and the part-owner of a school age child, a lot of thought has gone into how all my commitments have to fit together. Our current opening times are attached below. At first glance, opening for only around 30 hours a week might not seem a lot, but (for reasons I won't bore you with) it takes an hour to get the shop ready to open each morning, and I also have to allow an hour between about 3 and 4 to get our online sales processed and posted out.  Lunch and 'coffee breaks' happen at the till. Paperwork and anything else gets dealt with in the evening. Were it not for the fact that my flat is only 200 yards from my shop and that there's an excellent pub between the two, any possibility of a social life would be a vain and foolish hope. Still, it's better than working for somebody else.

 

 

 

One of the local model shops has similar opening hours (although not explicitly stated.  He's a one-man operation, and opens 11-4 Thursday to Sunday.  But his 11 o'clock opening can be later depending on family circumstances and the closing time is also flexible.  He does try and communicate any changes via the shop's Facebook page, which I usually check if I'm planning a visit.  He's also said that, as he doesn't live far from the shop, if I were buying something fairly big he'd consider making a special trip to open up.

 

It would be nice to see town centres revived with interesting, independent shops selling a variety of things.  But to get there we probably need to see some sanity on rents and rates and the provision of a decent mix of transport options that include public transport accessibility and reasonable parking.

[phil-b259]

16 hours ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

When I worked in libraries, we ensured that all the libraries throughout our patch had at least one late-night weekday opening day. The 10am - 3pm opening times, mentioned above, surely exclude a lot of potential customers.

 

With respect, the staff working in libraries are usually paid by local authorities and ultimately peoples council tax.

 

As such if the library sees relatively few customers compared to daytimes or has to employ extra staff to cover these extended hours then money is always available to cover the expenses incurred.

 

That model (providing something because its socially beneficial even if it runs at a loss) doesn't work for commercial businesses with rents and salaries which must be funded by sales rather than a guaranteed income stream like council tax.

[BR traction instructor]

Maybe the notion of a modelling hub which embraces all modern communications opportunities as well as offering the option to physically visit the premises is a sensible 2023 version of the traditional model shop. That way the owner is making the most of each opportunity to sell his goods, source stock, maintain a profile in the hobby, communicate with customers not having time or means to physically get to his premises and yet still offering a traditional visit opportunity for those preferring it.

 

BeRTIe

Edited June 20, 2023 by BR traction instructor

[Trains4U]

1 hour ago, BR traction instructor said:

Maybe the notion of a modelling hub which embraces all modern communications opportunities as well as offering the option to physically visit the premises is a sensible 2023 version of the traditional model shop. That way the owner is making the most of each opportunity to sell his goods, source stock, maintain a profile in the hobby, communicate with customers not having time or means to physically get to his premises and yet still offering a traditional visit opportunity for those preferring it.

 

BeRTIe

genuinely… what does that mean?

The description is pretty vague.

 

if you mean a physical modelling space, with knives and soldering irons and things, I think the insurance and h&s overhead would kill any potential profits

[BR traction instructor]

...hub meaning flexible modelling contact opportunity doing whatever works best at the time for the individual owner in terms of percentage of internet time (tracking down customers wants/needs, sourcing stock etc, selling own stock) as against physical visitors. No, I certainly don't mean a physical modelling clubroom.

 

BeRTIe

Edited June 20, 2023 by BR traction instructor

[Trains4U]

In which case, I’m still no clearer.

As a potential customer of this proposal, I would need to understand the use case.

 

what you suggest sounds like a complex website.  Something few have the time, resources or skill to invest in. 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Trains4U

[BR traction instructor]

One example, as a modeller living in a remote location (NW Cumbria) and being reasonably I.T. savvy I have no reason to visit a model shop at all, which is part of the problem for the model shop owners. However, there will be many individuals out there who aren't sourcing all of their own stuff/don't have the time to look for it and who would value this service done for them, at a price.

 

BeRTIe

[Type 2]

49 minutes ago, BR traction instructor said:

One example, as a modeller living in a remote location (NW Cumbria) and being reasonably I.T. savvy I have no reason to visit a model shop at all, which is part of the problem for the model shop owners. However, there will be many individuals out there who aren't sourcing all of their own stuff/don't have the time to look for it and who would value this service done for them, at a price.

 

BeRTIe

Then they would moan it was too expensive and spend the next 6 months berating them online...!

[Peter Kazmierczak]

3 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

With respect, the staff working in libraries are usually paid by local authorities and ultimately peoples council tax.

 

As such if the library sees relatively few customers compared to daytimes or has to employ extra staff to cover these extended hours then money is always available to cover the expenses incurred.

 

That model (providing something because its socially beneficial even if it runs at a loss) doesn't work for commercial businesses with rents and salaries which must be funded by sales rather than a guaranteed income stream like council tax.

 

I wasn't suggeting that model shop owners necessarily extended their opening hours, Phil, but used them more creatively.

Rather than open, say,  6 days 9-5, maybe close one/two days in the week (to process online orders), but have at least one late opening night to catch modellers who themselves work 9-5. And why not have that as some form of model shop "club night"?

Whenever I visit a model shop, I always come away wih at least a couple of purchases. Ebay might be great for lots of stuff, but I like to see locos tested before my eyes to see if they are sweet runners.

[Phil Parker]

1 hour ago, BR traction instructor said:

One example, as a modeller living in a remote location (NW Cumbria) and being reasonably I.T. savvy I have no reason to visit a model shop at all,

 

So how do you buy a tin of paint?

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

So how do you buy a tin of paint?

 

To be Devil's advocate, from his local Hobbycraft, or, for more specialised colours, at an exhibition. Although I was surprised that at this year's Bracknell ExpoEM there was no vendor of Phoenix Precision Paints. If you can't buy LBSC goods green (or whatever obscure shade tickles your fancy) at ExpoEM, what chance finding a model shop that stocks it?

[melmerby]

4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

To be Devil's advocate, from his local Hobbycraft, or, for more specialised colours, at an exhibition.

Go to C&M in Carlisle?

[Phil Parker]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

To be Devil's advocate, from his local Hobbycraft, or, for more specialised colours, at an exhibition. Although I was surprised that at this year's Bracknell ExpoEM there was no vendor of Phoenix Precision Paints. If you can't buy LBSC goods green (or whatever obscure shade tickles your fancy) at ExpoEM, what chance finding a model shop that stocks it?

 

1 minute ago, melmerby said:

Go to C&M in Carlisle?

 

I refer you to the original post:

 

1 hour ago, BR traction instructor said:

I have no reason to visit a model shop at all

 

I'd class both C&M and Hobbycraft as model shops.

 

I agree that paint supply at exhibitions isn't good. Unless Squires are there, you won't even find Humbrol, never mind Precision or any of the more specialised ranges. Shows used to be for the hard-to-get stuff that shops wouldn't stock, and that didn't include basics like paint!

[Type 2]

2 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

I agree that paint supply at exhibitions isn't good. Unless Squires are there, you won't even find Humbrol, never mind Precision or any of the more specialised ranges. Shows used to be for the hard-to-get stuff that shops wouldn't stock, and that didn't include basics like paint!

I went to Model Rail Scotland this year, could hardly get anything because Squires weren't there.  Pretty poor for a show that size that didn't have a trader who sold all the modelling bits and pieces, but I guess it all comes down to the cost of the stand and associated costs vs the profit made

[Phil Parker]

17 minutes ago, Type 2 said:

I went to Model Rail Scotland this year, could hardly get anything because Squires weren't there.  Pretty poor for a show that size that didn't have a trader who sold all the modelling bits and pieces, but I guess it all comes down to the cost of the stand and associated costs vs the profit made

 

And distance - Squires are based in Bognor Regis - as far as you can get from Glasgow!

[IWCR]

The  big  killer  of  small  High  Street  shops  is  Parking,  this  is   normally  local  council  controlled  and  is  not  enough  and / or  far  to  expensive.  People  want  to  visit  a  town  for  "Shopping",  buy  what  they  went  for  but  also  wander  about  to  various  shops  and  see  if  theres  anything  catches  there  eye,  (this  is  where  the  Hobby / Toy  shop  comes  in).  If  you  are  being  charged  many  pounds  an  hour  to  park  your  car  you  dont  hang  about  and  likely  dont  even  go  there  as  your  essential  purchases  are  at  the  out  of town  Supermarket  with  the  free  parking.  My  local  town  is  like  this,  it  actually  has  a  reasonable  amount  of  Parking  but  this  is  very  expensive,  even  charging  during  evenings,  sundays and  overnight.  Street  parking  is  charged  for  or  residents  pass  (also  charged)  only.

The  one  remaining  Free  half  hour  parking  street  is  always  solid  full  with  the  Council  Car  Parks  often  pretty  empty.  Most of  the  people  "Shopping"  are  elderley  women  congregating  at  Coffee  shops,  these  likely  having  travelled  on  their  Free  Buss  Pass  for  a  day  out.  Many  of  the small  family  shops  are  gone  (including  both  the  model / toy shops)  and  many  empty  premises  hence  further  reducing  the  attraction  of  the  High  Street.  Even  visiting  the  Chippy  gets  difficult,  fancy  some  Chips?,  drive  into  town,  around  1  in  3  chance  of  being  able  to  park  anywhere  in  the  evening  to  actually  get  to  the  Chippy,  no  chance  during  the  day.

 

Pete

[BR traction instructor]

20 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

So how do you buy a tin of paint?

I order directly from the manufacturer when I need three or four items and choose 50ml tins, which last a good deal longer than the little tinlets. However, for colours seldom needed/not available in 50 ml tins I do source some in the small sizes.

 

BeRTIe

Edited June 21, 2023 by BR traction instructor