Reinvigorating model shops: AI suggestions.

[JohnR]

The way to reinvigorate model shops is the same way any physical store needs to compete against cheaper online competitors. By offering something different that will attract customers. And yes, that might well mean offering a cuppa and a chat, even though that might not result in a purchase - this time at least. 

[HExpressD]

I might be in the minority here, but I actually quite like it when a model shop owner isn't overly chatty. Okay, I want them to greet with a friendly hello etc and don't want to feel like I am inconveniencing them but also I want to rummage through their boxes and boxes of unboxed rolling stock in peace!

[JohnR]

2 hours ago, HExpressD said:

I might be in the minority here, but I actually quite like it when a model shop owner isn't overly chatty. Okay, I want them to greet with a friendly hello etc and don't want to feel like I am inconveniencing them but also I want to rummage through their boxes and boxes of unboxed rolling stock in peace!

 

But thats the problem - you cant do that online, so you arnt the sort of customer they need to win back from online, let alone the sort of new customer they need to attract. 

[RJS1977]

I think the key is being able to have a chat, not necessarily being forced to have one.

 

Where the local model shop wins (assuming the staff are knowledgeable modellers in their own right, or at least know their products) is being able to ask the retailer for advice about building a layout, etc.

[Legend]

I think City Centers /Town Centers have to become destinations in their own right . Most of us do shopping on line or from out of town locations, you know the big Asdas /M&S/B&M/Next etc etc .  The City Center really needs to offer something different . You can see that in Glasgow where a large part of St Enochs Shopping Centre has become a Vue cinema . People go to Glasgow for the experience . Lots of entertainment and restaurants and shops .  Its a shame really that Modelzone has gone because you could see that as being the type of store to draw you in and make you want to go to town .

 

I visit Edinburgh occasionally . Yes its a nice city and the train ride is good , but the main reason is to visit Wonderland and Harburns model shops . Soon a tram will take me to Harburns too . So the model shop has already become the destination for me and reason for day out . 

[Matt]

6 hours ago, Legend said:

I think City Centers /Town Centers have to become destinations in their own right . Most of us do shopping on line or from out of town locations, you know the big Asdas /M&S/B&M/Next etc etc .  The City Center really needs to offer something different . You can see that in Glasgow where a large part of St Enochs Shopping Centre has become a Vue cinema . People go to Glasgow for the experience . Lots of entertainment and restaurants and shops .  Its a shame really that Modelzone has gone because you could see that as being the type of store to draw you in and make you want to go to town .

 

I visit Edinburgh occasionally . Yes its a nice city and the train ride is good , but the main reason is to visit Wonderland and Harburns model shops . Soon a tram will take me to Harburns too . So the model shop has already become the destination for me and reason for day out . 

I would agree - Harburns is always a must visit every time I’m in Edinburgh (I have an agreement for a “dad escape hour” on each visit). In recent years I have made a point of always buying something each time too - usually something significant - recognising that if I don’t they might not be there when I want to visit next time.

[rob D2]

On 25/04/2023 at 08:55, JohnR said:

The way to reinvigorate model shops is the same way any physical store needs to compete against cheaper online competitors. By offering something different that will attract customers. And yes, that might well mean offering a cuppa and a chat, even though that might not result in a purchase - this time at least. 

Well, that’s alright , that’ll pay the rent. I feel quite the reverse .

 

Offer something different - Diversify to survive. A lot of model shops have RC sections, I’m not sure how buoyant that is as a hobby but it never seems to be sneered at the way model trains are 

[rob D2]

On 25/04/2023 at 10:19, HExpressD said:

I might be in the minority here, but I actually quite like it when a model shop owner isn't overly chatty. Okay, I want them to greet with a friendly hello etc and don't want to feel like I am inconveniencing them but also I want to rummage through their boxes and boxes of unboxed rolling stock in peace!

Yep, I like to get in and out. I haven’t time to queue behind someone having a long chin wag 

[Compound2632]

On 25/04/2023 at 13:49, RJS1977 said:

I think the key is being able to have a chat

 

That has been to me the great problem with using a physical model railway shop. One wants to make a quick purchase, or ask a question ("have you got?), but the person at the counter is engaged in uninterruptible longwinded conversation with some old fellow who clearly isn't making a purchase. (Not you, Richard.)

Edited April 27, 2023 by Compound2632

[sagaguy]

Plenty of nostalgia here for me from some posters on here.In the early1960s,i worked in a shop which gave me Thursday afternoons off,early closing,anyone remember those days?.I used to get a trolleybus from Edmonton,N.London to Chancery Lane for Gamages for a look around their modelling department and tool department then along High Holborn to what was then Bassett Lowke,later Beatties.Other trips were to W & H models,firstly in Paddington street,then New Cavendish St then walking through the streets to Warren Street for the bus home passing the Trix showroom in Gt.Portland St.In those days,we abounded in model shops.

 

                     Ray.

[Widnes Model Centre]

42 minutes ago, sagaguy said:

Plenty of nostalgia here for me from some posters on here.In the early1960s,i worked in a shop which gave me Thursday afternoons off,early closing,anyone remember those days?

 

                     Ray.

When we first opened in 2011 we opened on Thursday. We literally never saw a customer and thinking as we were a new shop things would hopefully improve. It didn’t.

 

We had by this time gained some regular customers. We asked one why was it so quiet on Thursday? He told us was traditionally Half Day. We told him but no one comes even in the morning. His response verbatim… ‘It’s Half Day, all day on Thursday’.

 

We now only ever open on Thursday when it’s the last one before Christmas!

[Steamport Southport]

4 hours ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

When we first opened in 2011 we opened on Thursday. We literally never saw a customer and thinking as we were a new shop things would hopefully improve. It didn’t.

 

We had by this time gained some regular customers. We asked one why was it so quiet on Thursday? He told us was traditionally Half Day. We told him but no one comes even in the morning. His response verbatim… ‘It’s Half Day, all day on Thursday’.

 

We now only ever open on Thursday when it’s the last one before Christmas!

 

I was surprised by pub opening times in some of the places outside the cities (Widnes/Warrington/St Helens/etc.).

 

We were in a pub in Warrington* that opened at 12 and then kicked everyone out at half two like they did years ago!

 

I wouldn't have minded so much as we walked to another pub, but there was about thirty people in there. Why not stay open a bit longer and make some money? They were reopening at five anyway.

 

I believe that it's quite common in that area. No wonder everyone drinks in 'Spoons....

 

 

*Can't remember what it was called, but my brother will know

[sagaguy]

6 hours ago, sagaguy said:

Plenty of nostalgia here for me from some posters on here.In the early1960s,i worked in a shop which gave me Thursday afternoons off,early closing,anyone remember those days?.I used to get a trolleybus from Edmonton,N.London to Chancery Lane for Gamages for a look around their modelling department and tool department then along High Holborn to what was then Bassett Lowke,later Beatties.Other trips were to W & H models,firstly in Paddington street,then New Cavendish St then walking through the streets to Warren Street for the bus home passing the Trix showroom in Gt.Portland St.In those days,we abounded in model shops.

 

                     Ray.

Other shops i found whilst working in the City in the 70s was Ross Sheill in Liverpool st and Hadley hobbies which i think was in Middlesex st

 

                                Ray.

[Covkid]

13 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

That has been to me the great problem with using a physical model railway shop. One wants to make a quick purchase, or ask a question ("have you got?), but the person at the counter is engaged in uninterruptible longwinded conversation with some old fellow who clearly isn't making a purchase. (Not you, Richard.)

 

I think you need to remap your model shop experience.

My LHS is Topp Trains of Stafford and I always have a great experience there.  Sometimes it is a very quick pop in for something, other times it is a lazy wander while thy serve other customers.  However,  I don't think I have ever had to wait longer than I wanted to.  It is a model shop - a place of joy, peace and contentment. 

[JohnR]

On 27/04/2023 at 09:13, Compound2632 said:

 

That has been to me the great problem with using a physical model railway shop. One wants to make a quick purchase, or ask a question ("have you got?), but the person at the counter is engaged in uninterruptible longwinded conversation with some old fellow who clearly isn't making a purchase. (Not you, Richard.)

 

But thats retail customer service 101. Even if you are speaking to someone, acknowledge people who enter the shop. And if they want to give you money, stop your conversation for a moment (apologising), serve the customer and then return to the conversation. 

[melmoth]

Most of the responses on this thread suggesting ways to reinvigorate model shops can probably be summarised as being one of the following basic ideas, or a combination thereof:

 

1. Quieter shops for the "leave me alone, I'm browsing" types

2. Louder shops, or perhaps, louder shopkeepers

3. Shops nearer to wherever the individual is writing from, and failing that improved public transport to get them there

4. Caffeinated shops, possibly with some sort of grown up Soft Play Area, or at least a sofa

5. Cheaper shops (well, obviously)

 

However, until there is a fundamental realignment of basic business costs - by which I mean a reduction in rent and rates - to reflect the change in consumer shopping habits, much of this is just attempting to propel a naturally occurring liquid into an oncoming breeze (and that's before looking at energy costs and other price rises).

 

This is a problem that is a concern across all retail sectors in the UK - it's why people like Mike Ashley have used their business clout to go back to landlords and get rents reduced. Unfortunately, independent businesses are unlikely to be able to do anything similar.

[Compound2632]

35 minutes ago, melmoth said:

This is a problem that is a concern across all retail sectors in the UK - it's why people like Mike Ashley have used their business clout to go back to landlords and get rents reduced. Unfortunately, independent businesses are unlikely to be able to do anything similar.

 

Quite so but until landlords - i.e. business property portfolio managers - recognise that retail has changed for good (and also office usage) and that their property is overvalued they are simply going to be faced with reduced returns as an increasing proportion of their property stands empty.

[vikingsmb]

On 17/04/2023 at 12:23, tomparryharry said:

Re-invigorating any retail outlet is going to be a tough challenge. The business environment has moved on. I can think of only a couple of model shops in south Wales who cater largely for model railways. 

 

Online sales have taken over, and, it's not a bad thing. I'd much rather see a healthy modelling environment, than a list of strung-out retailers who can't make ends meet.  Media-savvy is a way forward, with channels like Youtube & others openly displaying the latest products. 

 

Our local centre is on its @rse, with retail jumping ship like scenes reminiscent of the last moments of the Titanic. Nowadays, it's mostly charity shops, kebabs & McDonalds.

 

"I'd like a large Donor, please, and hold the fishplates & ballast".     

which shop is that in newport mate?

[jjb1970]

At the risk of asking the obvious, how many really want to go to a physical shop? This isn't just a model railway thing, on-line shopping is now the default for many people and there is now at least one generation for which on-line shopping is the default for most products other than food and convenience shopping. The retail segments which still tend to focus on physical retail are those segments where the shop is part of the experience. I like visiting model shops, but at the moment I am reliant on on-line shopping for model trains and really can't say it is any sort of hardship or inconvenience.

 

In Singapore, many shopping malls are now primarily service orientated, particularly food and beverage, banking, medical clinics, cinemas, dance studios, keep fit etc. Shops are now a niche in many of them. The retail sectors which are still represented in all the malls are supermarkets for food, convenience marts and pharmacies but many other segments are primarily on-line.

[Phil Parker]

2 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

At the risk of asking the obvious, how many really want to go to a physical shop? This isn't just a model railway thing, on-line shopping is now the default for many people and there is now at least one generation for which on-line shopping is the default for most products other than food and convenience shopping.

 

And yet the local market on an airfield around here gridlocked two nearby towns last weekend, and will probably do the same again. People like shopping. It's a leisure activity, often the only one they have. Primark has based its strategy on people visiting the shops, and is aiming at that generation for whom online shopping is the default. Doesn't seem to be hurting them.

 

5 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I like visiting model shops, but at the moment I am reliant on on-line shopping for model trains and really can't say it is any sort of hardship or inconvenience.

 

As long as you stick to big-ticket items, you are fine. A pot of Humbrol paint? Couple of lengths of plastic? Single length or track? All a pain in the backside to buy mail order, and expensive once you add on postage.

[Steamport Southport]

17 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

At the risk of asking the obvious, how many really want to go to a physical shop? This isn't just a model railway thing, on-line shopping is now the default for many people and there is now at least one generation for which on-line shopping is the default for most products other than food and convenience shopping. The retail segments which still tend to focus on physical retail are those segments where the shop is part of the experience. I like visiting model shops, but at the moment I am reliant on on-line shopping for model trains and really can't say it is any sort of hardship or inconvenience.

 

In Singapore, many shopping malls are now primarily service orientated, particularly food and beverage, banking, medical clinics, cinemas, dance studios, keep fit etc. Shops are now a niche in many of them. The retail sectors which are still represented in all the malls are supermarkets for food, convenience marts and pharmacies but many other segments are primarily on-line.

 

The shops are packed though. Have you tried places like Liverpool and Manchester on a Saturday or even a normal weekday afternoon?

 

Don't even attempt the Trafford Centre on a Saturday. Far too busy.

 

This was Liverpool just before Christmas. Christmas shopping and the train strike did make it worse, but this is normal.

 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/huge-queues-horrendous-traffic-christmas-25778892

 

The demise of city centres is total nonsense. Maybe for small model railway shops it's the high rents and rates that are the problem. That's why they are all in smaller towns where it's cheaper. 

 

 

Jason

[jjb1970]

I think there'll always be shops (well, for my life time) but the question is how they compete with on-line retailing and when more and more people go on-line as a default.

 

An analogy might be physical music, advocates of vinyl point to increasing sales as proof that people want physical media yet as a percentage of total music revenue it is minor (most people stream and don't buy music anymore). That isn't to say records are dead, or buying music is dead, but both concepts are a niche. So physical shops have a place, the question is how many people really want to go to the shop vs. shopping on-line. Clothing has lagged behind other segments as people still like to try on clothes and see them in person, but even that segment seems to be seeing steadily increasing on-line sales.

 

And for a shop, the issue isn't so much footfall as sales. How many people wander around a model shop and then go off to order what they want from a box shifter? The box shifters generally have physical shops, do they share what percentage of their sales is physical retail vs. on-line? Genuine question, it might be interesting to see figures.

[jjb1970]

I was in London in December and the West End was ridiculously busy, however it was in the run up to Christmas when people are looking for gifts and after the exceptional circumstances of the pandemic people want to get out and about. However, it was also noticeable that there were vacant retail units (including in some of the high end locations where there is high footfall of big spenders). I was back in England a couple of weeks ago and there were a lot of vacant units, lots of American candy stores (where did they all appear from?) and it is starting to feel a bit shabby.

[Phil Parker]

8 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I think there'll always be shops (well, for my life time) but the question is how they compete with on-line retailing and when more and more people go on-line as a default.

 

Perhaps the question that ought to be asked is what all these people who are never going to visit a shop again are going to do instead? Most have no hobbies, so all they have is gawping at a screen in some form 18 hours a day. My argument, which seems borne out by some of the crowds who do go to shops, is that shopping is their main (only) leisure activity. They go to shops because retail therapy is fun. Look at the queues when lockdown ended. If pure online is the natural state, why did anyone bother to go out?

 

How many go to a show and don't leave with a new item under their arm, virtually none.

 

Not sure that your constant use of Singapore as an example stacks up either. The city-state operates in a very different way to the UK or the Western world in general. Likewise, the idea that only buying online for model shops isn't an issue. A single length of flexi track or one pot of paint are both a nuisance and a significant cost, on top of the purchase price to post.

[jjb1970]

People will find ways to fill their time. If that's using a device 18 hours a day and they enjoy it then ultimately that's what they enjoy. Gaming is a huge hobby/past time, it's not my thing but who am I to criticise what others enjoy. Many people now read books, listen to music, watch movies etc on devices. There was always going to be a big bounce after lockdown as people were desperate to get out. The question will be how long that lasts. I know many people who were desperate to return to their offices after lockdown who are now doing a hybridised form of working as after getting back to the office they were then happy to do two or three days a week working from home.

 

I agree that people like to go out, and many are sociable wanting to interact with others but shopping is only one outlet for that and how many look but don't buy? The fact that have threads like this seem a staple of model railway discussion, or that there is lots of discussion over how to re-invigorate high streets indicates things aren't especially rosy for physical shops.