Why are there scrums at St. Pancras?

[VIA185]

For two days, now, my daughter, who commutes from Corby, has been caught in massive crowds - scrums - at St Pancras as passengers from King's Cross apparently try to board EMR trains to Sheffield and Nottingham with LNER tickets. Their tickets are not valid on EMR (whose short-formed trains don't have the capacity anyway). It's overwhelming St. Pancras and clearly turning a never-very-pleasant commute into absolute Hell. Anyone know what's going on and why? The railway seems in melt-down at present. 

[Paul H Vigor]

6 minutes ago, VIA185 said:

For two days, now, my daughter, who commutes from Corby, has been caught in massive crowds - scrums - at St Pancras as passengers from King's Cross apparently try to board EMR trains to Sheffield and Nottingham with LNER tickets. Their tickets are not valid on EMR (whose short-formed trains don't have the capacity anyway). It's overwhelming St. Pancras and clearly turning a never-very-pleasant commute into absolute Hell. Anyone know what's going on and why? The railway seems in melt-down at present. 

According to LNER:

 

"Are eTickets accepted on all operators and journeys?

Yes they are! You can use your eTicket on any valid train in the UK. Some stations have gates with barcode scanners on so you can scan your ticket to get through. If they don't, you can show your eTicket to a member of staff and they'll let you through."

[Wheatley]

https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-information/travelling-now/travel-alerts/

 

Mid week engineering work. It would appear that weekend engineering work now inconveniences more people than doing it during the week. 

[VIA185]

27 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said:

According to LNER:

 

"Are eTickets accepted on all operators and journeys?

Yes they are! You can use your eTicket on any valid train in the UK. Some stations have gates with barcode scanners on so you can scan your ticket to get through. If they don't, you can show your eTicket to a member of staff and they'll let you through."

Except that when they get to St. Pancras to use their e-ticket on EMR, EMR tells them its NOT valid and also tells them (over the PA) that EMR trains don't have the capacity to take them and they should find an alternative. EMR is currently trying to save money by short-forming trains of 4 or 5 cars instead of 8 or 10.  (CJL)

[Wickham Green too]

Perhaps the words 'any valid train' need to be explained in a little more detail ?

[hexagon789]

Yesterday during LNER diversions, a freight failed at Spalding with a seized axle blocking the diversionary route.

 

LNER told passengers to use EMR and Avanti to London.

 

EMR told LNER passengers their tickets weren't valid.

 

Chaos reigned. One TOC claiming ticket acceptance, the other denying it.

 

It doesn't help that EMR's now almost entirely 5-car fleet can only just cope with normal passenger loads; any disruption and they don't have the spare capacity now.

 

At least an 8-car HST could swallow a fair number of people, including standees. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by hexagon789

[VIA185]

All of which suggests that a unified system where the right hand DOES know what the left hand is doing, is long overdue. From my daughter's experience (her season ticket is a few £ off £10,000 for the year) EMR is a very creaky operation at the best of times. She commutes from Corby - where the Midland electrification 'to Sheffield' peters out on some waste ground at the back of what remains of the steelworks. If the down train runs late it is caped at Kettering, so saving the 10 minutes each way and 10 min turnaround at Corby and recouping 30min against the timetable while costing passengers as least 30min waiting around at Kettering. The use of totally inappropriate rolling stock for the Luton Airport Parkway service is another bone of contention for both commuters and airport passengers.

 

[Forward!]

A number of ECML services have been diverted up north via the Peterborough-Lincoln-Gainsborough-Doncaster GN/GE joint line. I've witnessed a number of LNER Azumas and Grand Central 180s on this route, with consequent cancellations in services on EMR, presumably to preserve the same number of pathways. I haven't seen Northern services affected. I had the bad luck of needing to get up to York from Lincoln yesterday for work and there was a general chorus of very unhappy and generally confused ECML passengers present on both legs of the journey! To be fair the LNER staff were doing a really good job of helping.   

 

(And for what it's worth I cannot stand EMR trains. Their 170 fleet has the ambience of a mid 90s coach, coupled with utterly useless wifi and most importantly for a medium distance service- no charging points!)

Edited May 17, 2023 by Forward!

[hexagon789]

Its a case of the railway cuts its costs OR

Fares are raised further

OR

Taxes are raised

 

You either need the railway to require less money or more money made available for the railway.

 

The railway just isn't making as much money as it was country-wide (some operators are doing well, most aren't).

 

Take ScotRail, Edinburgh to Glasgow via Falkirk High was long the money-making route, it made a profit and a fair one at that. Based on the most recent figures, the Scottish Government is now SUBSIDISING the route to the tune of nearly 2p per passenger.

 

That's not sustainable long-term.

 

I would imagine operators with heavily rural or heavily commuter oriented operations will be similar.

 

The operators which are doing best financially are those with all or predominantly InterCity operations such as LNER, Hull Trains, EMR and GWR.

 

 

[adriank]

Echoes of the Bed Pan Line (Bedford to St Pancras) circa 1979!

 

As I recall, we commuters stormed the Stationmaster's office at St Pancras to protest about late, overcrowded and cancelled trains but to only momentary effect.

 

Adrian

[VIA185]

1 hour ago, Forward! said:

A number of ECML services have been diverted up north via the Peterborough-Lincoln-Gainsborough-Doncaster GN/GE joint line. I've witnessed a number of LNER Azumas and Grand Central 180s on this route, with consequent cancellations in services on EMR, presumably to preserve the same number of pathways. I haven't seen Northern services affected. I had the bad luck of needing to get up to York from Lincoln yesterday for work and there was a general chorus of very unhappy and generally confused ECML passengers present on both legs of the journey! To be fair the LNER staff were doing a really good job of helping.   

 

(And for what it's worth I cannot stand EMR trains. Their 170 fleet has the ambience of a mid 90s coach, coupled with utterly useless wifi and most importantly for a medium distance service- no charging points!)

It's no use Corby passengers disliking EMR trains - its them or nothing. The Corby trains are 20-year-old EMUs ex-Greater Anglia. They are branded as Luton Airport Express but they have no provision for air passengers luggage, so seats are taken by suitcases, forcing passengers to stand. I get the feeling passengers would appreciate a seat and/or a journey that operated to timetable before they worry about whether they can recharge their phone.

[Dava]

Added value of Abellio running East Midlands RailwayIts called Miles and shows EMR is a bit of a joke.

 

Dava

[Compound2632]

13 hours ago, Wheatley said:

Mid week engineering work. It would appear that weekend engineering work now inconveniences more people than doing it during the week. 

 

You can see the commercial logic. The weekend is when you get your occasional passengers to whom you want to give a good impression so that they come again. Your weekday passengers are stuck with you and you with them for better or worse.

[hexagon789]

29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

You can see the commercial logic. The weekend is when you get your occasional passengers to whom you want to give a good impression so that they come again. Your weekday passengers are stuck with you and you with them for better or worse.

The commercial logic is they make more money on the weekends now... ;)

[Mallard60022]

Loads of Rugby Union Teams going on tour?

P

[Reorte]

12 hours ago, Forward! said:

(And for what it's worth I cannot stand EMR trains. Their 170 fleet has the ambience of a mid 90s coach, coupled with utterly useless wifi and most importantly for a medium distance service- no charging points!)

I'd take the ambience of a mid 90s coach over a 2020s one any day. Prefer EMR trains for Manchester - Sheffield (much prefer 158s to TPE's 185s or Northern stoppers, although these days I usually have to use the latter since that's the one that serves my nearest station on that line).

[Mallard60022]

On Tuesday there were services on LNER either side of Donny and Peterborough. Coaches in between, including Retford for Lincoln Sheffield Line customers.

 I'm surprised that the Thames Links to Peterborough were not suggested and the Coaches on duty were not enhanced a bit for those poor EMT lot. Was Peterboro' stuffed for Thameslink because of that Freight failure?

EMT are running a crap service these days according to my pals that live over Sheffield way.

P

[Damo666]

14 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

Yesterday during LNER diversions, a freight failed at Spalding with a seized axle blocking the diversionary route.

 

LNER told passengers to use EMR and Avanti to London.

 

EMR told LNER passengers their tickets weren't valid.

 

Chaos reigned. One TOC claiming ticket acceptance, the other denying it.

 

It doesn't help that EMR's now almost entirely 5-car fleet can only just cope with normal passenger loads; any disruption and they don't have the spare capacity now.

 

At this stage I'd be writing to my MP and letting her/him be aware, and politely asking them to contact the rail operators as a matter of urgency and clarify the situation.

 

It won't help on the day but might for the following days. At least the rail operators will have their cards marked if your MP is any good.

[Mallard60022]

2 minutes ago, Damo666 said:

 

At this stage I'd be writing to my MP and letting her/him be aware, and politely asking them to contact the rail operators as a matter of urgency and clarify the situation.

 

It won't help on the day but might for the following days. At least the rail operators will have their cards marked if your MP is any good.

If you have a 'good' MP you are quite lucky. Ours is absolutely just a Government puppet (Bassetlaw). No interest in us or any Public Service and especially Employees of those Public Services.

However I hope you have success and yes, the situation is ridiculous. LNER are very good at sorting issues, unless its' literally impossible, such as OHLs down or an 'incident'. EMT have a poor reputation here in the Midlands. Not enough Staff, Bad Staff Employer relations, Poor Service provision, cutting Services (e.g Sheffield Cleethorpes SO).

P

[Nick C]

12 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

Its a case of the railway cuts its costs OR

Fares are raised further

OR

Taxes are raised

None of the above - have a proper joined up system where the profitable intercity services cross-subsidise the less-busy rural services. Get more freight (also profitable) on the rails, use that for cross subsidising too. And, of course, stop using UK taxpayers money to subsidise foreign government-owned railway companies...

[Wheatley]

1 hour ago, hexagon789 said:

The commercial logic is they make more money on the weekends now... ;)

That's because on some routes there are more passengers on the weekends than midweek now :-(

 

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/05/network-rail-to-trial-mid-week-engineering-work-between-grantham-and-doncaster.html

[Pete the Elaner]

It is nothing new. There has been no coherence for some time. A few years ago, an Incident in the WCML stopped services from Euston to MK. Passengers were told to catch a train to Luton where there will be a replacement bus service.

So I go to Luton & where is the bus? Nowhere. Just the regular standard service bus, but not a rail replacement.

c2001, I used to live in a village the other side of Colchester. I changed trains at Colchester for the local but it was cancelled. They announced that the following one had been given instructions to stop at a couple of extra stations, including mine. It whizzed through mine at about 60mph but stopped at the next one. I asked the driver what his SSO was & he showed me his slip of paper telling him only to stop at this one (ie. not mine). There were about 6 of us affected.

The station was staffed but they initially refused to call their office to arrange taxis because they worked for a different company & it wasn't their problem. They did eventually get us a couple of taxis.

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Loads of Rugby Union Teams going on tour?

Nah - they were on the train to Twickers on Saturday ........................... Navy beat Army I believe !

[Clive Mortimore]

It is odd that in this country we cannot do minor changes to our railway without a total **** up. In Poland they are rebuilding their busiest station and still running trains.

It has been great watching this happen over the past couple of years...and relaxing watching the trains

[Enterprisingwestern]

5 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

It is odd that in this country we cannot do minor changes to our railway without a total **** up. In Poland they are rebuilding their busiest station and still running trains.

It has been great watching this happen over the past couple of years...and relaxing watching the trains

 

Where there's a will?

 

Mike.