Tool for cutting point motor rods?

[ITG]

A simple question, I think. With a point motor mounted below baseboard, what tool do folk use to cut the metal rod which protrudes through the tie bar above the board? It seems far easier to get the length right if doing after fitting, rather than measuring and cutting it beforehand. I’ve tried using a Dremel (well, copy of) but the cutting disc is awkward to get horizontal between the rails (00 gauge) to enable an accurate horizontal cut. I’ve damaged a tie bar or two trying to get an accurate and near-flush cut.

thanks

Ian

[fulton]

I use a simple pair of side cutters, be careful of the piece that could fly off. 

[ITG]

2 minutes ago, fulton said:

I use a simple pair of side cutters, be careful of the piece that could fly off. 

Isn’t it tricky to get the cut accurately horizontal and virtually flush to the tie bar surface, due to the angle you have to hold it above the rails?

[meil]

If you are using side cutter then you need Hardened wire cutters. I have found the best place to get these are music shops - used for cutting instrument strings. You will find them way cheaper than those sold by "Tool Shops".

[fulton]

27 minutes ago, ITG said:

Isn’t it tricky to get the cut accurately horizontal and virtually flush to the tie bar surface, due to the angle you have to hold it above the rails?

You got me thinking, just been to the layout to take this photo, in fact I use the EXPO end cutters, not completely flush, but to me is OK. I model in EM but these end cutters will fit OO as well.

[Mallard60022]

Mini Drill with Cutting Disc. You can get really flush if careful. Need Goggles though.

P

[Michael Hodgson]

14 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Mini Drill with Cutting Disc. You can get really flush if careful. Need Goggles though.

P

OP has tried this and ruined a couple of tie bars in the process.  Been there, done that.

Apart from the risk of slipping, the heat generated can be enough to cause damage.

 

I prefer Xuron rail cutters, but I suspect the end cutters suggested by fulton are probably better still. 

The waste piece can fly off, so safety goggles are highly advisable.

[RFS]

I use a pair of bolt cutters such as these.  You can get close enough to get the cut almost flush, but do wear goggles to protect against the cut piece flying off.

[kevinlms]

17 hours ago, meil said:

If you are using side cutter then you need Hardened wire cutters. I have found the best place to get these are music shops - used for cutting instrument strings. You will find them way cheaper than those sold by "Tool Shops".

I once purchased a new pair of side cutters (for electronic use), and needed to cut some blackened brass 8BA bolts. I had about 20 to do and got to the 2nd last one and discovered that this one wasn't brass at all, but blackened steel! So much for my new cutters, which now had a V shaped notch in them!

So yes be careful of what you are cutting.

[Halvarras]

18 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

I once purchased a new pair of side cutters (for electronic use), and needed to cut some blackened brass 8BA bolts. I had about 20 to do and got to the 2nd last one and discovered that this one wasn't brass at all, but blackened steel! So much for my new cutters, which now had a V shaped notch in them!

So yes be careful of what you are cutting.

 

The second to last one? That's highly unusual, what I call LOS (Last One Syndrome) dictates that it's always the last one of anything, no matter the task or the number involved, which knocks you back just when you think you've cracked it. Extracting those small crosshead screws, as used by Bachmann on their locos, is classic LOS territory......

 

It happened to me again just 3 days ago - I have a pair of Hornby Class 73s which needed their short buffers replaced with the longer Lima ones (to put the buffer heads in front of the buffing plate instead of behind it), they pulled out of the first one no problem, job done in 3 minutes - on to the second one........uh-oh, buffers glued in (why, Hornby, why?!), they came off in bits and fitting the replacements required careful drilling and filing (no drill the right size), job done in 70 minutes! LOS says there was no chance of me picking them up the other way round🤬!!

[kevinlms]

47 minutes ago, Halvarras said:

 

The second to last one? That's highly unusual, what I call LOS (Last One Syndrome) dictates that it's always the last one of anything, no matter the task or the number involved, which knocks you back just when you think you've cracked it. Extracting those small crosshead screws, as used by Bachmann on their locos, is classic LOS territory......

 

It happened to me again just 3 days ago - I have a pair of Hornby Class 73s which needed their short buffers replaced with the longer Lima ones (to put the buffer heads in front of the buffing plate instead of behind it), they pulled out of the first one no problem, job done in 3 minutes - on to the second one........uh-oh, buffers glued in (why, Hornby, why?!), they came off in bits and fitting the replacements required careful drilling and filing (no drill the right size), job done in 70 minutes! LOS says there was no chance of me picking them up the other way round🤬!!

You're absolutely wrong! With one left over, you have no idea if the last one is brass or steel and so you have to work out another way of checking, or risk another notch!

If it happens on the last one, the job is already done.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Put a piece of brass/plastic rod in place of the the steel wire, cut that to length, and voila, you have a template, you can then saw, disc cut, bolt crop, snip or whatever in the comfort of your lap/workbench.

 

Mike.

[Bernard Lamb]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Put a piece of brass/plastic rod in place of the the steel wire, cut that to length, and voila, you have a template, you can then saw, disc cut, bolt crop, snip or whatever in the comfort of your lap/workbench.

 

Mike.

Quite so.

But they are a lot esier to fit if there is 10mm sticking out to get a grip on when aligning.

Having just recovered and fitted four used solenoids with cut down pins in a new location, I was very tempted to replace them with new as they took an age to fit.

Of course the first just fell into place but after that I struggled.

I favour using a cutting disk and do a second cut to level off the top. The drill is always on the bsebord for other jobs so laziness tends to make me use it rather than find a better cutter.

Bernard

[Mallard60022]

On 08/07/2023 at 10:27, Michael Hodgson said:

OP has tried this and ruined a couple of tie bars in the process.  Been there, done that.

Apart from the risk of slipping, the heat generated can be enough to cause damage.

 

I prefer Xuron rail cutters, but I suspect the end cutters suggested by fulton are probably better still. 

The waste piece can fly off, so safety goggles are highly advisable.

Sorry, but I am kak handed but have NEVER had that issue. Also Xurons will just be damaged by the Steel used for DCC Concepts Motors. Slitting Discs not Saw Discs; maybe I should have been clearer?

P

[DCB]

On 08/07/2023 at 06:50, ITG said:

A simple question, I think. With a point motor mounted below baseboard, what tool do folk use to cut the metal rod which protrudes through the tie bar above the board?

 

Miniature End cutter.   My father in law was a trained professional watch maker and he had a them in all sorts of sizes.  The miniature 4 1/2" is the one I use.  They used to be available as one of a pack of 5 from Poundland, but getting rare now and expensive on eBay.  They are great for pulling track pins but they need grinding to narrow them to fit between the rails, I have used a sanding disc in a big 750watt drill for this.  
The under cut of the jaws is greater on quality products, the jaw needs to be nice and sharp so I under cut ithe jaw deeper with an angle grinder see pic, 

The cutters cost  50p or £7.50  depending on where you buy, I find the cheap ones to be as good,  I throw away the chunky plastic grips and opening springs to make them more tactile.   I have several in my model toolbox and I simply never use side cutters now

[Halvarras]

10 hours ago, kevinlms said:

You're absolutely wrong! With one left over, you have no idea if the last one is brass or steel and so you have to work out another way of checking, or risk another notch!

If it happens on the last one, the job is already done.

 

I did say your situation was highly unusual. Had you snipped off 19 bolts without trouble you have wondered that little bit more why the last one was putting up such a struggle before succeeding (albeit with a notch in your new side cutters!)

 

As for checking that last one - magnet, or file to expose the metal. A few weeks ago I was fooled by a plated screw which sheared off while trying to tap it into a Mazak casting, that's when I found out it was brass. Naturally I had just succeeded in doing this with an apparently identical polished steel screw so that familiar LOS deflation struck again. At such moments I have to remember that I do this for fun!

 

I reckon that running a magnet over a bunch of screws about to be employed in a project which may require some force to be exerted is not a bad idea, it may expose a lurking LOS candidate waiting to be picked up last to ruin your day😜!

[ITG]

Thanks all. I’ve decided to try the end cutters as recommended by @fulton and @DCB, now on order.

never thought of the approach suggested by @Enterprisingwestern although I also note and empathise with the subsequent comment by @Bernard Lamb

 

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, Halvarras said:

 

I did say your situation was highly unusual. Had you snipped off 19 bolts without trouble you have wondered that little bit more why the last one was putting up such a struggle before succeeding (albeit with a notch in your new side cutters!)

 

As for checking that last one - magnet, or file to expose the metal. A few weeks ago I was fooled by a plated screw which sheared off while trying to tap it into a Mazak casting, that's when I found out it was brass. Naturally I had just succeeded in doing this with an apparently identical polished steel screw so that familiar LOS deflation struck again. At such moments I have to remember that I do this for fun!

 

I reckon that running a magnet over a bunch of screws about to be employed in a project which may require some force to be exerted is not a bad idea, it may expose a lurking LOS candidate waiting to be picked up last to ruin your day😜!

But from memory, I had purchased them as brass screws, so not expecting a steel one.

[Happy Hippo]

8 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Quite so.

But they are a lot esier to fit if there is 10mm sticking out to get a grip on when aligning.

Having just recovered and fitted four used solenoids with cut down pins in a new location, I was very tempted to replace them with new as they took an age to fit.

Of course the first just fell into place but after that I struggled.

I favour using a cutting disk and do a second cut to level off the top. The drill is always on the bsebord for other jobs so laziness tends to make me use it rather than find a better cutter.

Bernard

If you superglue a plastic guide rod extension to the cut end of the  drive rod, once it's all been placed into the final position and secured under the turnout, the plastic extension can be snapped off.

[knitpick]

I must admit that I use hardened steel cutters - and have on odd times used the Xuron track cutters.  Also I place my spare hand over the top to catch any flying bit of the motor rod.  So I don't bother with safety goggles - the cut off piece isn't going to go through my hand - but don't tell the Health & Safety Rep!

[BR60103]

I saw a tool at a music festival that was cutting guitar strings. It looked just the right size to go between Peco points. I got the brand from the tech but couldn't find the right tool in any hardware stores.

(This was in the US)

 

[ITG]

My end cutters have arrived, so I’ll be putting them to use within next few days, report to follow.

thanks to all who responded.

Ian