3 link couplings - were there rules about which wagon's 3 link to use?

[kitpw]

27 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

However, the shunter’s pole, as a tool, is designed for right handed operation

...the shunter's pole may be 7mm to the foot at Swan Hill but the principle is the same - with no other constraints such as different coupling types, then left hand wagon to right hand wagon it is.

 

My initial question seems to have raised some interesting points about coupling technology (to give it a grand title): thanks for all the responses.

 

[Steamport Southport]

Have a watch of this.

 

 

[figworthy]

46 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Have a watch of this.

 

 

 

Any ideas as to where the filming locations are ?  Some look vaguely familiar.

 

Adrian

[Steamport Southport]

9 minutes ago, figworthy said:

 

Any ideas as to where the filming locations are ?  Some look vaguely familiar.

 

Adrian

 

Mostly Whitemoor I think. Not really familiar with the area.

 

ISTR there is a version with sound. Couldn't find it though.

 

 

Jason

Edited July 31, 2023 by Steamport Southport

[kitpw]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

Have a watch of this.

Marvellous clip, much to take in there.  I did notice the shape of the draw hook shown in close up with the shunter dropping the 3 link: it's not a constant thickness throughout.  The part of it that does the work is, as one would expect, pretty chunky but the top/point is slimmed down to make dropping the link easier.  A tiny detail on a model but I've found it worthwhile to do the same with the thicker hooks. Thanks for posting the film.

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by kitpw
typo

[Wickham Green too]

43 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Mostly Whitemoor I think. Not really familiar with the area. ...

Some clips may well be Whitemoor - but not the sequences with that dirty great overbridge ! ( They don't do dirty great overbridges in the Fens. )

[number6]

The yard at the end of the clip is Mottram on the Woodhead line. 

 

Are instanter couplings supposed to stay in the long or short position? I remember watching one on a 16T mineral in Lewes station move from short to long with a really loud bang...

[hmrspaul]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Mostly Whitemoor I think. Not really familiar with the area.

 

ISTR there is a version with sound. Couldn't find it though.

 

 

Jason

Rather hilly for Whitemoor 😇  Reading the comments gives a much more sensible suggestion: it is the old mottram yard on the woodhead line   

 

1 hour ago, kitpw said:

I did notice the shape of the draw hook shown in close up with the shunter dropping the 3 link: it's not a constant thickness throughout.  The part of it that does the work is, as one would expect, pretty chunky but the top/point is slimmed down to make dropping the link easier.  A tiny detail on a model but I've found it worthwhile to do the same with the thicker hooks. Thanks for posting the film.

 

The shape of hooks can vary but this is a typical cheap and cheerful type. https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/wagondetailspoetc/e6f45c5e

 

Paul

[Hal Nail]

21 hours ago, BR traction instructor said:

 

Good practice with model trains fitted with 3 link/instanter/screw couplings is to stretch the couplings/take up the slack gently before accelerating. Smooth acceleration and deceleration was the norm with freight consists, there is a lot of physics going on and it isn't difficult to cause damage to rolling stock/shift loads etc and the prospect of a bruised guard approaching from his brakevan to repay his injuries at the end of a rough journey was certainly borne out in reality.

 

When we take punters on brake van trips we go to some lengths to warn them about snatching up. Inevitably there is always one smart arse who knows best and I was especially pleased to see one particularly unpleasant one in a horizontal mid-air pose heading for the open window. Sadly a hand came up and grabbed him and worse still, I realised that it was mine! 

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

12 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

Rather hilly for Whitemoor 😇  Reading the comments gives a much more sensible suggestion: it is the old mottram yard on the woodhead line 

definitely filmed at Mottram Yard. The road bridge in the pictures is the A626 from Dinting Vale to Marple.

These is taken from the bridge https://pjbrailwayphotos.piwigo.com/picture?/31042

https://pjbrailwayphotos.piwigo.com/picture?/27917/category/316-mottram_old_photos

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by TheSignalEngineer

[jim.snowdon]

35 minutes ago, number6 said:

The yard at the end of the clip is Mottram on the Woodhead line. 

 

Are instanter couplings supposed to stay in the long or short position? I remember watching one on a 16T mineral in Lewes station move from short to long with a really loud bang...

Their natural state, when hanging, will be to drop into the long position, but because the middle link is shaped the way it is, they won't do so automatically. The instanter link is stable, just, in the short position when the coupling is hanging free.

[Steamport Southport]

I was getting mixed up with this video. Loads of them on YouTube.

 

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

This is the view from the bridge now.

[BR traction instructor]

On 31/07/2023 at 02:45, BR60103 said:

I talked about this once with a late member of The Platelayers who had been a BR driver.  He said that they would use the lighter coupling.

 

 

...there will always be slackar@@s/corner cutters in each & every situation but the bottom line was that a correctly coupled freight played a big part in the handling/smooth running of same. A guard travelling in a brakevan 40-60 wagons back from a loco had a lot of physical self interest in ensuring that there was minimal coupling slack along its length. As a secondman coupling locos in multi and ensuring that loco shackles were equalised and screwed up to minimise snatches at the front of the train too, I found it the exception rather than the rule that professional railwaymen neglected this fundamental consideration. As a driver of partially fitted/unfitted freights I would walk back to investigate poor running/excessive snatching at the first opportunity because there were various safety related causes to consider. If an incorrectly coupled wagon(s)  was the cause then I would supervise the correction of this by the guard before proceeding. If there was any reluctance then the signaller would quickly be advising control of the reasons for any delays associated with the issue and a chat with the guard's inspector at the end of a shift for the individual involved would generally sort any problems in terms of doing the job in a safe & efficient manner.

 

BeRTIe

Edited August 1, 2023 by BR traction instructor

[uax6]

Gerry Fiennes in his second book Fiennes on Rails, describes using the screw coupling on the Swedie (GER) brakevans to allow the van to be stablised a bit with the help of the wagon in front, including how the guards (and he) would re-couple the brake after it was marshalled by the shunters to ensure the screw was used.

 

I'm surprised that more guards on preserved trains don't do this....

 

Andy G

[The Stationmaster]

On 31/07/2023 at 09:42, Wickham Green too said:

It's high time we had working RTR three-link ( etc.) couplings so we can get rid of tension locks altogether ! 🙄

OI've seen it done - but all the wagons had to be the same way round and they only had a shackle at one end.  However automatic uncoupling of wagons with a 3 link coupling was very impressive to see.   But really very specialised and not for general layouts I think.

[Wickham Green too]

Always wondered whether three-link uncoupling - in 4mm scale at least - could be done with a carefully aimed air jet from below ......... the thing would probably need untangling from its own hook afterwards tho' ! ☹️

[Ken.W]

On 30/07/2023 at 18:09, kitpw said:

My interest in the couplings is very much to do with how trains start, move and stop and how far that can be represented in model form so your comment pointing out the different behaviour of 3 link and instanter is exactly the sort of difference I've been thinking about although, at the moment, I don't have any instanter couplings on the layout.

 

 

Indeed. Starting off slowly until the whole trains taken up was important with loose coupled trains, otherwise the brakevan (and unfortunate guard) would out-accelerate a Ferrari! (unless the couplings broke)

 

Instanter couplings though, when in an unfitted train or portion, should have been in the long position, so effectively the same as a 3-link. They were to  e in the short position when in a fitted train or portion, mimicking a screw coupling.

 

Starting as a secondman in '77, and with the first 6 month on unfitted coal trains, l never came across a 3 link fitted vehicle, they were instanter fitted by then.

 

With fitted vehicles though, note the buffers should still be in contact with the couplings taught (except with buckeyes where theyre retracted out of use) - something which still doesnt work in model form, even with 'scale' couplings and sprung buffers.

 

On 30/07/2023 at 19:24, Wickham Green too said:

Unless one of the vehicles is a locomotive - para 1.1 ( or 1.4 if the loco's only got a thee-link ! ).

 

Other way round, only an unfitted loco could have a 3 link. 1.4  refers to coupling a loco (screw or buckeye fitted) to an unfitted vehicle, where the unfitted vehicle's instanter or 3- link was to be used

 

[LMS2968]

Realistically, you wanted every pair of vehicles to take up the slack in the same manner, so all long (three link or Instanter in the long position) couplings or all short (screw shackle or Instaner in the short position).

[MarkC]

On 01/08/2023 at 00:45, Hal Nail said:

 

When we take punters on brake van trips we go to some lengths to warn them about snatching up. Inevitably there is always one smart arse who knows best and I was especially pleased to see one particularly unpleasant one in a horizontal mid-air pose heading for the open window. Sadly a hand came up and grabbed him and worse still, I realised that it was mine! 

 

Look on that as saving you an awful lot of paperwork... 🤪

 

Mark