I have final figured out what this cab is.

[Trainshed Terry]

 

I went to the Midland Railway centre in 20011.

And I spotted this cab mock up on the site, and it has been driving me mad for all this time.

 

 

I think that it was a test cab front that was put on the class 86/87 as a experiment for the H.S.T at the time of development.

 

I am happy that I have figured out what it is.

 

Terry.

[russ p]

5 minutes ago, Trainshed Terry said:

 

I went to the Midland Railway centre in 20011.

And I spotted this cab mock up on the site, and it has been driving me mad for all this time.

 

 

I think that it was a test cab front that was put on the class 86/87 as a experiment for the H.S.T at the time of development.

 

I am happy that I have figured out what it is.

 

Terry.

 

I'm mnot so sure Terry,  this looks completely different 

 

 

[Jeremy Cumberland]

No, it's not that one (here's a better picture), but there's a clear resemblance.

 

I can't think that the Butterley front can have attached to a locomtive of that time - look at the bulged sides. Perhaps it was for wind tunnel testing.

[Wolf27]

Most likely a full size mock up of concept design that came from Derby Litchurch Lane. Or possibly a spare for an export design. 

[Edwin_m]

The buffer area is reminiscent of an electric Networker.  I wonder if it's a mockup of the cab end of one of the Networker derivatives, probably a high speed one, proposed for various projects in the 1990s but ultimately killed off by privatisation.  

[Trainshed Terry]

There is the possibility it could be V2.0.

It would be interesting to know if it still on site.

 

Terry.

[kevinlms]

A proposal to further develop a high speed version of the Pacer?

[russ p]

British of a stab in the dark but I wonder if its something to do with this

 

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/unbuilt-london-the-battersea-bullet-train-53831/

 

[DLT]

Its an unfinished Barbara Hepworth isn't it?  See here

Should be worth a fortune...

[Oldddudders]

59 minutes ago, russ p said:

British of a stab in the dark but I wonder if its something to do with this

 

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/unbuilt-london-the-battersea-bullet-train-53831/

 

Interesting. Obviously another desperate throw by the entrepreneurs. I had had dealings with this scheme from the mid-80s, and frankly it could never have washed. Morning services after the peak might have been ok, but Victoria, in common with all other London termini, is Harry-packed in the evening peak with trains and people, so the returnees from the theme park - again both trains and people - would have been hard to accommodate.

 

But of course, LB Wandsworth were anxious to avoid the area being flooded with cars, although I'm not sure environmental aspects of too many cars was such an issue in those days, merely the volume. So railway access for the majority of the visitors was needed for planning consent. They also looked at Coester trains, then being touted as having exceptional climbing properties, so a railway into the sky, avoiding other traffic, but still dropping down to arrive at busy Victoria. 

 

Eventually, that was that. 

[Dagworth]

Regarding the streamlined cab on the 86, it’s not easy to tell from photos as they all seem to be from the same angle but is the window offset to the driver’s side to match the 86 driving position? 
 

Andi

[Jeremy Cumberland]

3 hours ago, Dagworth said:

Regarding the streamlined cab on the 86, it’s not easy to tell from photos as they all seem to be from the same angle but is the window offset to the driver’s side to match the 86 driving position? 
 

Andi

I think not. I, too, wondered how it was driven, and reckoned that it would have to be within a possession. Presumably there was another driver in the secondman's seat.

 

I have no idea how easy the nose was to remove (probably not very), and of course with it fitted, there is no way of coupling up to anything, but it did at least have a lamp bracket so the whole ensemble could be towed with the cone on the back.

 

Here's another picture

 

[Covkid]

On 10/08/2023 at 18:21, Jeremy Cumberland said:

I think not. I, too, wondered how it was driven, and reckoned that it would have to be within a possession. Presumably there was another driver in the secondman's seat.

 

I have no idea how easy the nose was to remove (probably not very), and of course with it fitted, there is no way of coupling up to anything, but it did at least have a lamp bracket so the whole ensemble could be towed with the cone on the back.

 

Here's another picture

 

 

Quite how E3173 was driven under test intrigues me too. In front of the driver and secondman was a desk with instruments, switches and a rather complicated power controller assembly which disappeared below the desk in a mass of relays and switches. I don't see how the loco could have it's desk relocated for these trials, therefore the driver couldn't really have his seat moved as his left hand would be on the brake handles and his right hand on the controller.   ASLE&F presumably must have given their blessing to the trials.   

[Covkid]

Oh and the cab at Butterley.  Was it a prototype for the stillborne WCML IC250 train - the one between the APT and the Pendolinos 

[BernardTPM]

That's not the one shown at the top of this thread. The IC250 cab was much longer.

Edited September 4, 2023 by BernardTPM

[kevinlms]

On 10/08/2023 at 05:54, Trainshed Terry said:

 

I went to the Midland Railway centre in 20011.

And I spotted this cab mock up on the site, and it has been driving me mad for all this time.

 

 

I think that it was a test cab front that was put on the class 86/87 as a experiment for the H.S.T at the time of development.

 

I am happy that I have figured out what it is.

 

Terry.

The dumb buffers make it look like it was a very early mock up.

 

IIRC there was an article in an early issue of the part work 'History of Railways', on a future high speed train. But I don't have them to hand at present.

 

Update 

I've looked at the first article in the first issue and the OPs photo doesn't appear. 

I'm sure I've seen it before, but where?

Edited September 5, 2023 by kevinlms
update

[steve1]

Either cab variant would make an interesting 3D print for an unusual model. Plenty of donor locos available.

 

steve 

[BernardTPM]

I think it might be a variation on the AMU/Networker, especially given the cross section profile. Those 'buffers' would cover the over-rider protectors. There were several family members that never made production:

Class 341 for Crossrail

Class 447 Battersea Bullet

Class 481 Kent High Speed

 

Visually the 447 is closest, but you'd expect a lot of changes between early artist impression and a physical mock-up. Another possibilty is a driving cab for a Mk.3 when they were considering short, single power car HST conversions in, I think, the early 1990s, though there was another artist drawing of that which was rather different.