Class 86 non runners after storage.....help

[DavidMcKenzie]

After three years the layout is finally far enough along to get some stock out. Everything has been box stored and the only locos I have had issue with are all 4 of the DC class 86s. Power is there and lights are on, but there is no hint of movement. All other Dapol and farish stock runs just fine (might have needed a bit of a clean or initial help getting going after a juddering start, but all basically ok). I can't believe it is a coincidence that all 4 of the issue locos are 86s. Has anyone else had a similar issue? I am a bit lost about where to start looking and any tips of suggestions would be very gratefully received.

 

All the best,

Dave 

[Pete the Elaner]

Class 86s will not work from DC. They need a 25kV AC supply.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[JBM37404]

2 hours ago, DavidMcKenzie said:

After three years the layout is finally far enough along to get some stock out. Everything has been box stored and the only locos I have had issue with are all 4 of the DC class 86s. Power is there and lights are on, but there is no hint of movement. All other Dapol and farish stock runs just fine (might have needed a bit of a clean or initial help getting going after a juddering start, but all basically ok). I can't believe it is a coincidence that all 4 of the issue locos are 86s. Has anyone else had a similar issue? I am a bit lost about where to start looking and any tips of suggestions would be very gratefully received.

 

All the best,

Dave 

Crude way of maybe getting some life in, put them on the track or rolling road, then with power to the track apply a bit of pressure to the model from above and side on in different directions and see if the motor hums or turns also lightly lubricate the gears.

[96701]

It might be that the lack of movement might have allowed the lubricant in the gear towers to set.

[33C]

That cheapo, packing grease,  hardens and expands over a period of time and inactivity. Strip and relube.....and use!

[Southernman46]

Do the grease thing first don't even think about force starting them with a RR - you'll have 4 burnt out motors etc

[The Johnster]

The packing grease is horrible stuff.  It will become the opposite of a lubricant (a stifficant?) eventually, but this process is unpredictable and cannot be reliably prevented or delayed by controlling the temperature or humidity of the storage facility.  On top of that, it is often too liberally applied in the factory, and attracts crud.  Get rid of it.

 

Remove the bodies from the locos (owners' service sheets available from manufacturers as pdfs online), use a lump of Blutac to keep the screws from making a break for the border, and squirt the grease out with a rattlecan; I use WD40 Contact Cleaner (don't use WD40 moisture repellent, it'll eat your plastic).  If there's a lot of crud, clean out the axles and wheel channels as well,  Allow the rattlecan cleaner to evaporate off, and relube with a non-mineral machine oil suitable for use in models.  I use a hypodermic syringe for this, but a droplet on the end of a pin will do.  Use no more lubricant thay you absolutely need, as too much will atract more crud.  Test run before putting the bodies back on.

 

If the locos still don't run, tell us here and more advice will follow.

[DavidMcKenzie]

Thanks for all of the quick replies. All very helpful and I didn't even consider the gear stack and was thinking too electrical. The good news is that two of the four are running again. One of the four smells very much like 'electrical burning' when trying to run it and I quess the motor is possibly burnt out? This was the one I tried first and tried for the longest so I've possibly just overloaded the motor. And the remaining one I will try again and give it more of a clean next chance I get, maybe I missed some old lube which is still blocking the gears. 

 

Thanks again for all the help.

All the best,

Dave 

[atom3624]

I've done a similar thing, for different reasons with different marques.

Dapol motors do not support sustained high loads and burn out - had that twice with my 68's.

Hornby motors sustain a high load, or some do (Merch / Duch / Royal / Scot / A4 motor) and recover almost without incident.

 

I would give the 'smelly 86' a good strip down, clean and relube - keep away from the brushes / commutator - and see if you can coax her back.  You might be lucky.

 

Al.

[The Johnster]

With your burning smell loco, you've nothing to lose from a complete stripdown and deep cleaning session.  Take the motor and gears out and give them an overnight bath in IPA, scrub them with an old toothbrush, then let them evaporate dry.  Then re-assemble and lube sparingly as before.  The burning smell may, with luck, be no more than trapped dust or crud in or around the motor suddenly realising that some fool's electrocuting it!

[ModRXsouth]

On 01/09/2023 at 17:27, The Johnster said:

The packing grease is horrible stuff.  It will become the opposite of a lubricant (a stifficant?) eventually, but this process is unpredictable and cannot be reliably prevented or delayed by controlling the temperature or humidity of the storage facility.  On top of that, it is often too liberally applied in the factory, and attracts crud.  Get rid of it.

 

Remove the bodies from the locos (owners' service sheets available from manufacturers as pdfs online), use a lump of Blutac to keep the screws from making a break for the border, and squirt the grease out with a rattlecan; I use WD40 Contact Cleaner (don't use WD40 moisture repellent, it'll eat your plastic).  If there's a lot of crud, clean out the axles and wheel channels as well,  Allow the rattlecan cleaner to evaporate off, and relube with a non-mineral machine oil suitable for use in models.  I use a hypodermic syringe for this, but a droplet on the end of a pin will do.  Use no more lubricant thay you absolutely need, as too much will atract more crud.  Test run before putting the bodies back on.

 

If the locos still don't run, tell us here and more advice will follow.

Thank you for the tip to use WD40 Contact Cleaner - did not this existed! Would seem to be a convenient way to help ‘wake up’ long stored or sluggish locomotives. 
Any recommendations for brands of non-mineral machine oil?
 

[The Johnster]

Get one recommended by your local model shop or on modelling websites, not necessarily railway, as aircraft, ship, car, R/C modellers use it as well.  If you are absolutely stuck, a light olive or nut cooking oil will do at a push.

 

My first ever train set, 1957 when I was five, a Triang Rovex Black Princess, had packed in it's own little space a small square glass bottle of Shell high-grade refined whale liver oil, with a pin attached to the bottletop to apply it in droplets.  Even at that tender age, I was highly impressed with the impression created of precision engineering.  It lasted several years, and of course only father was allowed to open it, which he did with due reverence.  It smelled a bit of whales, or at least what I imagine whales smell like. 

[Damo666]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

......... It lasted several years, and of course only father was allowed to open it, which he did with due reverence.  It smelled a bit of whales, or at least what I imagine whales smell like. 

 

Cardiff is in whales, isn't it? Ahh, the aroma of Chippie Street after a Rugby match, and all that deep frying.

(Better stick in an 😁 emoji so that all the pedants know this is in humour).