Could someone ID this coach please.

[JZ]

Lydney Town Station. 14XX at the head? I don't recognise the rear coach.

Unknown photographer.

[7802]

Diagram A44 auto. Converted from d117 brake thirds in 1955. There is a comet kit available

[JZ]

7 minutes ago, 7802 said:

Diagram A44 auto. Converted from d117 brake thirds in 1955. There is a comet kit available

Thankyou for that.

[Cwmtwrch]

The trailer next to the engine is probably A44, since it seems to have 9ft wb bogies, rather than the 7ft wb of A33, although it is difficult to be sure. However, the recessed driver's door on the nearer trailer means that this one is A34, two of which were used on the Lydney Junction - Berkeley Road service. The location is Lydney Town [sign on the end of the building].

[JZ]

This one has inset cab doors by the look of it. Is that unusual?

Edited September 1, 2023 by JZ

[Cwmtwrch]

There were four types of compartment autotrailers post-grouping:

A34 1668-71, built by the GWR in 1939, of which 1668 and 1671 were always allocated to the Lydney Junction - Berkeley Road service, were the only compartment autocoaches with inset driver's doors.

As stated above A44 were BR conversions from brake thirds in 1955, with flush doors for the driver.

A33 were similar conversions, but by the GWR in 1937, and had 7ft wb bogies and flush doors for the driver.

A32 were the only composite compartment trailers, built by the GWR in 1936, with no separate driver's door. Access to the drivers cab was via the guard's or luggage doors.

 

Of the post-grouping open saloon trailers A27, A28 and the BR built A38-40 and A43 all had flush driver's doors, but A30 had flat recessed driver's doors.

[Wickham Green too]

18 hours ago, Cwmtwrch said:

... 9ft wb bogies, rather than the 7ft wb of A33, ...

Like any GW coaching stock, the bogies might have got swapped in time !

[Cwmtwrch]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Like any GW coaching stock, the bogies might have got swapped in time !

True. However, while all the other compartment driving trailers had 9ft bogies and were 38ft between bogie centres, A33 were 41ft 6ins; what the implications, if any, of this were for fitting them with 9ft wb bogies I don't know, but photographs show that they still had 7ft wb at nationalisation. John Lewis' "Great Western Auto Trailers Part Two" has a copy of the GWR diagram, on which 4350 has been deleted [no date], leaving 4364, but with no other alteration.

[The Johnster]

The Lydney-Sharpness service was unusual (not unique, but unusual) for an auto working in that first class accommodation was required.  This was because the service was joint with the LMS (though by this time the GW was tasked with operating it), which required first class accommodation for through ticketing purposes.  Two compartments were needed, one smoker and one non-smoker.

 

I do not know what happened to the Severn Bridge trailers after the bridge was destroyed in October 1960 by two drifting and burning oil barges that had collided in thick fog outside Sharpness loco entrance.  I assume they were scrapped as no longer required, as with the introduction of dmus in full swing, non-gangwayed passenger stock was becoming surplus and I cannot think that work was found for them anywhere.  The obvious nearby auto service was the Gloucester-Chalford, but this did not require first class accommodation and more recently outshopped A38s and A44s were available.

 

The D117/A44 conversions were for the new 'regular interval' timetable introduced in September 1953, a major overhaul and rationalisation of South Wales Valleys services that increased auto working in that area.  Of course, the new workings did not require ticket sales on the train or ground access, so saloon trailers with retractable steps were not necessary.  A number of 4575 small prairie locos were provided with auto gear in connection with this timetable.  There was also an A43, a C66 conversion with no driver's or guard's compartments.  The A44s were renumbered into the auto numbering series, the highest numbers of that series, but the A43s retained their coaching stock numbers.  As stated above, the Severn Bridge trailers were not renumbered into the auto series; the GW, and WR, were never particularly consistent in this regard.  Earlier compartment auto-trailers like the Clifton Downs also carried coaching stock numbers.

 

The GW/WR had different number series for 'normal' coaching stock, NPCCS, steam railmotor/trailer/auto trailers, and diesel railcars, so that for example there were simultaneousy four no.37s, a Cordon, a BG, a Diagram N auto-trailer, and a diesel railcar.  SRMs converted to trailers were given new diagram numbers in the A auto-trailer series when they were rebuilt, but retained their running numbers.

 

Not sure about Lydney-Sharpness, but in South Wales these conversions were known as 'Cyclops' trailers because of the single 'one eyed' driving cab front window.  The tail lamp in the photo is interesting; the photo is post 1959 because of the lined maroon livery but the lamp is not white.  Compartment auto-trailers traditionally had the non-driving end painted black like a normal coach, but one saloon type, the Diagram C IIRC, had a panelled non-driving end that was painted black.

 

On the subject of bogie centres, TTBOMK these flat-ended trailers were based on or rebuilt from flat-ended Collett non-gangwayed stock, which I believe was all on 9' bogies.  The lengths of this series of coaches varied, so much for GW standardisation but it was in fact due to standardisation, of the compartment sizes.  Different combinations of them resulted in different coach lengths, between 55' and 59'6".  Some of the SRM rebuilt saloon trailers, which re-used the original SRM bogie pivots, had bogies set at different distances from the ends of the coach.  A31s, the type produced as a kit by Keyser, had three different types of bogie fitted when they were rebuil; fishbellies, 'Americans', and 7' Collett.  Those with 7' Colletts look particularly odd with the smaller bogie set such a distance 'in' from the non-driving end!

 

Incidentally, for anyone wanting to work this model up, the Keyser kit has American bogies which are incorrect for the coach depicted.  Some of these were contracted out to Gloucester RCW when they were built as SRMs, and while those built at Swindon had the normal wide single inward opening door to the passenger vestibule, the Gloucesters had double doors, and these are what you get with the kit.  The Gloucester SRMs were provided with fishbelly bogies from Swindon, and even after rebuild none had Americans, so the kit bogies need to be replaced.  I used 3D prints from Stafford Road Works, who sell through Shapeways.

 

I am in the process of working one of these up to represent an ersatz  Diagram A10 trailer W 26 W, which looked very similar, to run with Diagram N W 37 W when it arrives from Wrexham.  This set ran for some time in this formation at Tondu from 1953 to 1955, with the A10 'outermost', so the Dapol trailer will probably need a good bit of extra ballasting as the Keyser is whitemetal and a bit of a 'lump' (two of them are too much for a Bachmann 4575 on level track).  To run with the Dapol trailer, a lot of the cast whitemetal detail must come off; I have already sawn out the division between the double doors, which I am retaining in order to preserve the panelling rather than replacing with doors off an old Airfix A30.  W 27 W ran on 7' Collett bogies and the inner end bogie pivot has to be repositioned.  This will mean that I will have to similarly work up my other A31, which represents fishbellied W 207 W, in crimson livery with panelled over toplights, but there is no urgency for this as this coach never ran at Tondu.   Thus the argument that high-quality RTR stock is eroding the need for proper modelling is not relevant in my case; the new N will force me to upgrade all my existing trailers so that they are not completely put to shame by the newcomer (except my Comet A43 and A44, which are fully detailed anyway..).

 

Funfunfunfunfun.

 

 

 

[Cwmtwrch]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The Lydney-Sharpness service was unusual (not unique, but unusual) for an auto working in that first class accommodation was required.

Not in BR or post-war GW days, as far as I know [I don't know about earlier]. The normal train was two all third compartment trailers as in the OP's photo. The only compartment auto trailers with both classes [only one compartment was first class] were the two A32 trailers, which spent their lives on the Oswestry - Gobowen shuttle according to John Lewis.

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I do not know what happened to the Severn Bridge trailers after the bridge was destroyed in October 1960

The service continued between Sharpness and Berkeley Road until it ceased in 1964. There is a photo in "Western Steam in Colour" on page 3, by Hugh Ballantyne, which shows 1409 standing at Sharpness attached to an A34 autocoach in lined maroon in 1963.

[D826]

I'm pretty sure I've seen photos of the 50s single window autotrailers on the Tintern to Monmouth line.  I have a recollection (possibly wrong) of a 64xx pannier with one at Brockweir in one of the superb Lightmoor Press books on the area.  

 

Matt W

[The Johnster]

Quite possible; some A43/44s were allox Newport division and were likely to be seen on the lines out of Monmouth.  They were not suitable for use where there were ground level platforms, which needed saloon trailers with retractable steps, but this was not an issue if the compartment trailer was paired or sandwiched with a saloon. 

[Wickham Green too]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

... this was not an issue if the compartment trailer was paired or sandwiched with a saloon. 

... so long as passengers who boarded the compartment trailer at a high platform understood that they couldn't leave at a ground level one. ( WOT ! - passengers understand things ? .... c'mon )

[The Johnster]

This was possibly an issue with the nice people that live in the Monmouth area, but for trains in the Valleys, you were lucky if they got out on the platform side once they realised tickets would be collected...

 

Old chap I once knew who was a 'latcher' (shunter) at Ebbw Vale Steelworks said they used to go over to Brynmawr on Saturday night to the pictures, and drop off the train on the non-platform side on arrival back at Ebbw Vale so as to not have to buy tickets.  It was, he said, like rats deserting a sinking ship, scattering in all directions.  'Brilliant service' he said, 'everyone used it, trains were packed, can't see why they ever shut it down'.   Sometimes, just sometimes, you can see what Beeching was getting at...

[Wickham Green too]

Could've done with selective door unlocking p'raps !

[The Johnster]

Don't tempt me!  I'd lock the b*ggers out...