Layout from scratch. Any input appreciated.

[Chimer]

Nothing seen recently seems to address the issue of getting at the cupboard under the stairs.  Big boards in front of it are not going to be easily removed even for occasional access.  So I would propose this as a baseboard layout which allows access by removing a single non-scenic board and associated track - shown in green.  The quarter circle is the arc of the door.

 

 

I've shown, without detail, a double track roundy-roundy which uses a second easily removable section to give access to the centre.  I've shaped the boards so everywhere is reachable (also not true in some of the recent pictures).  Not sure I've got the dimensions exactly right, but close enough for now.

 

An alternative would be to scrub round the second removable section and do an end-to-end, possibly as two terminii rather than one with a sort of fiddle yard at the other end.  You and son could each own one station and send trains to one another, maybe.  That would mean short trains, though.

 

Hope this helps to clarify thoughts, at least.

 

Best of luck!

[The Johnster]

That's a good starting point, Chimer.  I think access could be further improved if the boards could be trimmed towards the track in places, and it offers an opportunity to move the main lines a square to the left in the top left of the plan and incorporate an S bend jiggle to get around the chimney breast or something intrusion.  That's worth doing, as a win-win situation; you get more running length, not a huge amount but every little helps when things are this small, and turnouts (points) off the curves Minories style as trailing crossovers and entrances to yards or loco sheds situated in the areas partitioned off by the S bend are easy to fit in, a nice impression of a main line snaking through a busy area.

 

The 'semi removable' corner section top right opens up a possibilty as well.  If the scenic break 4.5' from the left is a station building on an overbridge with platforms looking as if they are emerging from a part you cannot see beyond the break, you can get away with shorter platforms, and with the top left curve moved a foot further left, have room for a station throat leading to bay platforms, perhaps a goods or parcels depot.

 

This would allow a second station on the right hand side emerging in a similar way from the scenic break, again providing room for siding activity of some sort, but it's best to steer away from the 'get as much track as you can in' approach; you need space for scenery, buildings, and toy cars as well.

 

In short it's a simple basic design with a lot of potential for later expansion.  With generous curves it will run well, and can handle reasonable compromises when it comes to train length.  Good for train racing as well of course!

[DCB]

It seems to me with a Radiator along the same wall as the airing cupboard the airing cupboard door could be re arranged to slide so ne real need to have a lifting section if  like mine the bottom part is the hot water tank., If the plan is to bung up the room with railway then a lot more could be crammed in...   See doodle but Anyrail suggests it would work...

[Glob-Ally]

Hi @Mysticpuzzle here’s a suggestion to (try to) meet your criteria. I am a regular lurker here but not a regular contributor as there are others who know far more than me about the ins and outs of railways (model and real!). But your situation particularly resonated with me as it sounded similar to what I tried to achieve myself in a first (now discontinued thanks to a house move) layout with my little boys and will hope to do again once we have a more permanent place again. I endorse basically everything @The Johnster said and if I had to sum it up I would say maximise play value in a way that doesn’t feel entirely toy-like.

 

This design aims to do that. I’ve tried to fit as many of your requests in as possible and aim for the upper end of ambition. It could be scaled down if this felt unmanageable, or built in stages as money/time permit. But I wanted to see what was do-able.

 

The basic idea is a double-track roundy roundy which goes through a main station (on the left hand side) and disappears in to tunnels that lead to some hidden sidings behind a back-scene (on the right), and then a branch line which runs from the main station to a small terminus in front of the hidden sidings. Also included is space for some industries and shunting.

 

Mainline passenger trains can obviously either stop at the station (it should fit your 4-car Eurostar if it’s the same one I have) or go through non-stop. But you also have options in both directions for added interest. On the clockwise (outer) line if you have a loco-hauled train you can have a loco change by the train stopping in platform 1, then the old loco decoupling and going to the shed in the corner to be replaced by another. Meanwhile, on the anti-clockwise (inner) line you can have a slow train pull in to platform 3 and be overtaken by an express service on platform 2. Platform 3 is also used for branch line passenger services which can either terminate there and reverse or join the mainline and go to the hidden sidings.  

 

In terms of mainline goods services, they would pull off the main line in to the goods loop marked (G). A shunter parked in the headshunt (H) could then sort the wagons between three industries – the tracks marked A, B and C and/or prepare a short freight train to run from the goods loop down the branch to industry siding D next to the branch line terminus. This should give lots of interest (although probably also some frustration – shunting over set-track points and sharp curves is rarely entirely smooth) and you could look to build the industries with your boy from kits (Metcalfe are popular) as a joint activity.

 

In terms of your wish-list I think this ticks all the boxes (and indeed there’s a triple-level crossing rather than just a double ;) other than the turntable which I just couldn’t fit. I think the layout could at a stretch sustain 6 trains (3 mainline passenger, 1 mainline goods, 1 branchline passenger, 1 branchline goods) plus a shunter.

 

The layout is built almost entirely with set-track, although there are a few bits of flexi to handle a couple of awkward corners and long-straights in the hidden sidings (more economical than lots of pieces of set-track). There’s nothing less than R2, and there are lots of R3 curves, which I should imagine you’re swimming in if you bought several trainsets!  

 

This can doubtless be improved by the expert minds on here but your feedback on what you like/don’t like will help shape that. So I hope this is useful for that if nothing else!

Edited September 13, 2023 by Glob-Ally
Tags to other forum members didn't work first time for some reason

[RobinofLoxley]

Hello Glob-ally. This is a nice plan, but the given the evident inexperience of the original poster, and the the fact that its going to be a temporary installation, I would think that its overly ambitious. Feel free to disagree.

[ColinK]

Thanks for the plan, its given me some ideas.

[Glob-Ally]

5 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

Hello Glob-ally. This is a nice plan, but the given the evident inexperience of the original poster, and the the fact that its going to be a temporary installation, I would think that its overly ambitious. Feel free to disagree.

That’s a fair challenge - and you may well be right!
 

To also be fair to myself though, I did say in my earlier post that I recognise this is top end of ambition. But I wanted to test if it was possible to include all the things requested in the OP plus the “play value” dimension that The Johnster recognised and the OP seemed to welcome. I think perhaps more than anything what my scheme shows is that the answer to that is it is possible but it does create something more complex and so it requires real consideration about feasibility and trade-offs. I certainly shan’t be offended if the OP decides it’s too much to bite off anyway!

 

Two other quick thoughts:

 

1 - it’s undoubtedly complex in terms of baseboards and portability which is a biggie. But I’m not sure it’s hugely complex in other dimensions. It’s almost all set track, so tracklaying wont be especially challenging. And whilst I freely admit to being hopeless with electrics, I think it should be relatively easy to wire up for DC with four feeds (outer loop and shed, inner loop and platform 3, goods yard, branch) and some IRJs?

 

2 - playing devil’s advocate, if you do much less than this is it worth going around the edge of the room at all? Any form of round the room layout is going to be encountering the challenges of lifting flap(s) and board shape to get around the jutting out section, plus of where to store the boards. If it becomes simply a double track circuit with a station on either side does it add much to go round the walls compared to what you’d get from an 8x4 resting on some trestles with a scenic divider down the middle?

[Mysticpuzzle]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I got bogged down with work related travel but am back now and picking up the planning. I am exploring how to get the baseboard sorted. Will keep you aware how this goes.

 

@Glob-Ally, this is brilliant. Seems to cover everything my son is looking for. I will assess how this layout fits in the actual space I will end up with, once the baseboards are sorted. 

[Mysticpuzzle]

@Glob-Ally, do you mind sharing the plan with the part numbers please? Many thanks.

 

I have come up with the attached baseboard plan by using the current dining table and getting 4 IKEA LINNMON table tops with additional legs. I plan to lay cork roll on top of the table to achieve a flat surface throughout and avoid drilling the tables. The nearer 70cm of the dining table is what I plan to utilize so that I would be able to access all the areas. There is enough space in the middle for both my son and I to sit/stand. The tables will be 70cm high so hopefully I should be able to crawl under. This removes the need for any lifting flat. And with the tables being standard size, I should be able to dismantle and re-fix them in the new house, when I move out of here. Only part I need to think about is access to the under stairs cupboard. It houses our jackets and travel bags. Will see how/what I do to achieve this.

[ITG]

1 hour ago, Mysticpuzzle said:

I plan to lay cork roll on top of the table to achieve a flat surface throughout and avoid drilling the tables.

Does this mean all the wiring will be on the board surface? It’s good practice to have several power feeds to the track, rather than rely on rail joiners, although of course, if you’re planning on using the self-isolating features of such turnouts, you’d have to avoid compromising them.

Ian

[Mysticpuzzle]

9 minutes ago, ITG said:

Does this mean all the wiring will be on the board surface?

@ITG, the plan is to run the wiring under the cork roll (4mm). I am not looking at a complicated wiring set-up. DC power to the tracks, turnouts and maybe a couple of street lights. This initial layout is an experiment and probably once I move to a permanent place, I will then draw upon this experience and maybe build something complex. Time will tell, though :)

[Chimer]

I don't want to dampen enthusiasm, but this plan doesn't look like an experiment to me, it looks like a very major project, especially if it involves devising some way of regularly moving a 100 x 60 cm table with 8 tracks crossing onto adjacent similar tables.

 

Given you'll be using settrack which is infinitely rearrangeable unless/until you start ballasting, I think I'd start with those 4 tables making a 7' x 4' ish board in the middle of the room so you can put together something simple to test out your thoughts on wiring etc without committing to anything major.  Or just do a conventional baseboard (maybe in two pieces) of around that size sitting on the dining table.

 

Don't know how old your son is, but at 12 I was pretty happy with a single circuit and a few sidings on a 6' x 4' piece of plywood ....

 

 

[ITG]

10 hours ago, Mysticpuzzle said:

@ITG, the plan is to run the wiring under the cork roll (4mm). I am not looking at a complicated wiring set-up. DC power to the tracks, turnouts and maybe a couple of street lights. This initial layout is an experiment and probably once I move to a permanent place, I will then draw upon this experience and maybe build something complex. Time will tell, though :)

Mmm, maybe not complicated wiring, but if you choose to electrify 20+ turnout motors (plus track etc) there’ll be plenty of wires running all over under your cork. And surely you’ll have to cut channels in the underside of the cork for the cables, otherwise you will get awkward ridges, often with track running over them - not a good idea for smooth running as wheel/track connections could be weakened. More so with dead frog turnouts if they don’t sit exactly flat.

I too don’t want to dampen your enthusiasm, but I agree with @Chimer - this is looking like a fair sized project with the suggested track plan, not a (learning) experiment. 
Ian

[Mysticpuzzle]

@Chimer and @ITG, I see where you are coming from. I have still not finalised the layout yet. The ideas from other members on here is for inspiration and most likely I will end up with a much simpler version which will cover all or some of my son’s requests. I guess the real depth and dimension of any model is from the setting I.E diorama, village, people, road structure etc. So even if I end up with 2 parallel ovals, there is a lot that my son and I can enjoy by creating various scenarios. This is my thought process for now. 
 

@Chimer, my son is 6 years old but blame me for taking him to various model railway shows etc., that his expectations are far higher :) It is actually funny that he rather prefers pushing the trains on the track manually and making engine noises as opposed to using the controller. But I think he will get around to using the controller and turnout switches once we have a full model. 

[RobinofLoxley]

Plenty of time for your son to grow into this. Mine never had a technical bent, but I have a great nephew who was into programmable toys by about age 8 and he is looking forward he tells me to operating my layout from his house, which is about 150 miles away btw.

 

What are you planning with the dining table? Just running track across it? Asking as on my original plan all the main turnouts would fall there. With this approach I think all the turnouts will need to be operated by hand, although surface mounting is possible.

 

Cork roll wont compensate if adjacent tables arent level, or more likely the floor isnt, leaving small changes to be allowed for.

Edited September 20, 2023 by RobinofLoxley

[Mysticpuzzle]

@RobinofLoxley, I am thinking of running the cables under the cork roll, and if needed create channels underneath. If it works then the turnouts on the dining table should not be an issue. All the tables are of the same height, but I will get those extenders on Amazon for any minute adjustments.

 

Everything is on paper at the moment. I am sure I will face many challenges when I will start the model building. Keeping fingers crossed.

[Mysticpuzzle]

Hi all, inspired by all the examples and ideas from other members on this thread, I have prepared the attached draft layout. I have tried to cover everything that my son was hoping for but also kept the mainline simple with 2 parallel ovals. There are no inclines or R1 curves. I have also kept the tracks on right top table to the minimum so that I can move that table with some but hopefully minimal fuss. The tracks in red need to be cut to enable removing the table.

 

The idea is to use the GWR HST and Eurostar as mainline trains, Scotsman for connecting the branch line and Blue highlander as the goods carriage. 

 

I am open to any feedback or critique. It needs to work which is the most important and preferrable outcome. 

 

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, Mysticpuzzle said:

@RobinofLoxley, I am thinking of running the cables under the cork roll, and if needed create channels underneath. If it works then the turnouts on the dining table should not be an issue. All the tables are of the same height, but I will get those extenders on Amazon for any minute adjustments.

 

Everything is on paper at the moment. I am sure I will face many challenges when I will start the model building. Keeping fingers crossed.

 

A word of caution about running wiring under cork roll; my worry is that if there are ever any wiring faults (and there will be!) it will be difficult to trace them and possibly mean that you have to lift the track and relay it, a lot of work, mess and disturbance.  Conventional wisdom advises ‘drop wires’ from each section of track connected to bus wires beneath the board, which aids fault-finding and provides power to all sections, switchably if needed, reducing the need to rely on point blades to direct current.  This is unreliable as crud builds up on the blades and disrupts your track supply.
 

I ‘get’ why you want to keep the wires above the table/boards, but it would be better IMHO to run what would otherwise be the ‘droppers’ to the edge of the boards, where the bus wires will run.  They can be hidden and protected in plastic trunking, and the now horizontal droppers will have to cross the bard on the surface, which might need some scenic camouflaging.  It will be worth it I reckon for electrical reliability and the layout’s ‘resilience’ to faults. 

[The Johnster]

The track plan will work, but if I may, some minor improvements that should increase operating reliability and allow for some future expansion.  This is because I reckon that, as your lad grows older, he will want to do more than just run trains around, and no doubt you will acquire more locos and stock over time, and include some buildings and scenery.  
 

Firstly the shed in the top left corner, which is I assume the loco shed.  It might be better to have it trailing off the outer main line at top centre, which allows more room for a length of track on which locos can shunt without using the main line. Curve the two lines onto the shed for a little more room and to make reaching easier. 
 

I don’t like reverse curves and think they should be avoided as much as possible.  The crossover just down from the outer main line platform could be a trailing point  coming off the bottom left curve leading to a straight point on the inner main line, a ‘Minories’ trick, and the same could be done for the trailing point to the long siding that leads to the shed in the top right corner.  Better running, especially as you will have to propel backwrds into the long siding. 
 

The point to the inner line platform loop can move ‘one straight track’ to the left, and if the one to the ‘shunter’ siding is replaced with a left-hander straight after it ‘Minories style another s-bend is eliminated.  At the other end of this loop, a move of the point to the left in a similar way a third bites the dust. 
 

Returning to the ‘shunter’ siding, you have an opportunity to run it without that reverse curve.  Leave space behind the buffer stops as this siding could in future be extended towards the right-hand board, to become a goods yard or even a branch line.  
 

Just thinkin’…

[RobinofLoxley]

Personally, @The Johnster I would be happy to leave that plan as it is, so that when built any difficulties that appear have to be resolved by the builder of the layout. If you try and resolve everything at plan level there will be less learning taking place. There is nothing in it that will prevent it working, in principle. 

 

btw, where you have written 'lad' above, remove the 'l' and substitute a 'd'

[Chimer]

On 19/09/2023 at 19:39, Mysticpuzzle said:

Only part I need to think about is access to the under stairs cupboard. It houses our jackets and travel bags. Will see how/what I do to achieve this.

 

I know I keep banging on about it, but all other difficulties pale into insignificance compared to to the ones related to getting that table out of the top right hand corner whenever there's a need to get jackets out of that cupboard ..... Sorry.

[Harlequin]

There seems to be enough space to elsewhere in the property to put an Ikea wardrobe/cupboard for coats and things. Then that cupboard under the stairs could be relegated to storing things that are very rarely needed.

 

Here's a rationalised baseboard plan using the dining table, four Lack tables (instead of five) and one small bridging piece.

 

The bridging piece at the bottom could just be a plank of wood, hinged or fixed permanently. I'm assuming that you won't need to access the cupboard but if you do then only one table needs to be disconnected and moved.

 

[RobinofLoxley]

I would remove the cupboard door

[Mysticpuzzle]

Right, I forgot to mention that the under stairs cupboard also has the mains switchboard which I will have to access in case of any issue.

What I will do is leave the door open fully and then set the tables. I have accounted for some space on the right hand wall due to the radiator so hopefully it should be fine or at the max, I might have to do minor adjustment to the table and layout. This should resolve the problem and would avoid any access issue and also fiddling with tracks and the layout once it is hammered on.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

For your cupboard door problem why do you not try an accordion concertina door. You can also use them for the main door into the room. Therefore you do not have to sacrifice the area that a normal door takes to swing. They are quite cheap at between £40 - £60 depending on the one you buy. Look on Amazon to check them out.