BEST DETAILED Hornby A4

[DerbyLNWR]

I mainly model in O Gauge but want to buy a Hornby A4 model. I assume that there have been multiple versions of these over the years with lots available on e-Bay. Can anyone tell me what Hornby experts regard as the best-detailed versions ? Ideally I would like one in wartime black but my preference is to buy the best detailed version. 
Many thanks all.

Jon 

[NZRedBaron]

Far as I know, there's only been two Hornby A4's produced in LNER Black; a model of 4466 Sir Ralph Wedgewood produced in 1994 (R. 341), and a four year run of 4901 Sir Charles Newton between 2004 and 2007 (R. 2338).

[Steamport Southport]

Avoid anything that has an R number less than R3000, and any labeled Railroad and you'll be fine. Anything lower than that will be an older or less detailed model. Worth considering that 2004 was nearly twenty years ago.

 

For Black ones, R3441 Sir Murrough Wilson is your best bet if you can find one. Recent enough that you might find some still on the shelves at retailers.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/65284/hornby_r3441_class_a4_4_6_2_4499_sir_murrough_wilson_in_lner_wartime_black/stockdetail

 

 

Jason

[micklner]

The best/current detailed  Hornby  A4's started at LNER Mallard R2339 they also did LNER/NE Sir Charles Newton in Black R2340 (?) maybe the other number posted earlier.

Edited September 12, 2023 by micklner

[Dominion]

Agree with Mick, the fully detailed loco drive models started with that pair. Sir Charles Newton in NE black was R2338. There was a BR green one at the same time, Golden Plover, that was R2340.

 

Some of the sets have included full spec. A4s too. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Dominion

[Steamport Southport]

8 hours ago, Dominion said:

Agree with Mick, the fully detailed loco drive models started with that pair. Sir Charles Newton in NE black was R2338. There was a BR green one at the same time, Golden Plover, that was R2340.

 

Some of the sets have included full spec. A4s too. 

 

It may well have done.

 

But I'm pointing out that models in the R23XX range are all nearly twenty year old models. 2004 is a very long time ago....

 

Would you recommend buying a model from twenty years ago when there are brand new models currently available?

 

 

Jason

[Coldgunner]

I have R2339, fitted TTS sound into it and it runs a dream. Newer versions of Mallard I've seen have had weird mistakes with fonts etc.

[micklner]

37 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

It may well have done.

 

But I'm pointing out that models in the R23XX range are all nearly twenty year old models. 2004 is a very long time ago....

 

Would you recommend buying a model from twenty years ago when there are brand new models currently available?

 

 

Jason

What is actually any better on the newer models ?? . Just because its newer does'nt on its own make anything better.

[Steamport Southport]

14 hours ago, micklner said:

What is actually any better on the newer models ?? . Just because its newer does'nt on its own make anything better.

 

So, a second hand model that is twenty years old or a brand new one? Which has either been ran to death or left in the box so that the motor and gears have solidified. I know what I'm spending my hard earned on and there is very little difference in prices.

 

It's like recommending a model made in 1960 to someone in 1980!

 

 

 

[Dominion]

The OP asked about which are the most detailed. The only changes from then to now are internal wiring and tender connection as far as I know. The fidelity of the shape and detail were excellent then and are the same now. The recent Dublo metal version is obviously different tooling but I do not think of it as more detailed.

The OP went on to say they were interested in Black. From the modern tooling there have only been two releases in black.  The reasonably recent R3441 that has unshaded yellow numbering and letters and R2338 Sir Charles Newton which has shaded numbers and letters, which is quite a different look. I personally prefer the shaded livery and i thought helpful for the OP to know if the options. I agree it was released a long time ago. But good examples come up from time to time, and the detailing is excellent, as is the running on the ones I have seen. 
Regards, Tom

 

[micklner]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

So, a second hand model that is twenty years old or a brand new one? Which has either been ran to death or left in the box so that the motor and gears have solidified. I know what I'm spending my hard earned on and there is very little difference in prices.

 

It's like recommending a model made in 1960 to someone in 1980!

 

 

 

Very Strange !!. I have bought a number of Hornby A4's secondhand over the last few years none had been run to death or solidified Motors or Gears, which I have never seen on any Hornby Locos at anytime . I must have be very lucky, the Hornby A4's are very easy to work on as well, and you can save a few/lots of pennies too.

 

Models of R2338 Newton are actually dearer or the same price on EBay as used as the Wilson version. One brand new Wilson on offer for £170 , hardly a bargain price etc etc.

[DougN]

I'm with you Mick, the later post 2004 A4 is one of the best and as there is parts available to repair them as well if needed. I have a list of all the LNER liveried versions on the thread:

 

I have gone rather nuts on chasing these down. I still think they are one of the best versions of the A4's specifically the variety of tenders for the locos (there are 3 types). then there is a couple more of the 3 with roller bearings which with a little modelling can be done. 

 

[Johan DC]

I also have more than I realy need, and it started with a Rails weathered, brand new Sir M. Wilson, for £100! 

How do they compare to the real steam or Black Label versions, aren't these more recent? 

[MikeParkin65]

On 13/09/2023 at 14:02, micklner said:

Very Strange !!. I have bought a number of Hornby A4's secondhand over the last few years none had been run to death or solidified Motors or Gears, which I have never seen on any Hornby Locos at anytime . I must have be very lucky, the Hornby A4's are very easy to work on as well, and you can save a few/lots of pennies too.

 

Models of R2338 Newton are actually dearer or the same price on EBay as used as the Wilson version. One brand new Wilson on offer for £170 , hardly a bargain price etc etc.

Agree there is nothing wrong with and a lot to be said for buying second hand - buyer beware of course. That said I've had Hornby loco's stored from new where the grease has solidified, in my case both early versions of the current Britannia. Both restored but it did require a total strip down clean and relube. Thats a pig of a job on the Brit - as you say the A4 is an easier loco to work on.  Again in my experience you can tell how well a second hand loco has been looked after and I would say a loco that has been run carefully is in fact a better proposition than one that has been stored. 

[Jenny Emily]

I tend to regard the Hornby A4s that postdate the  awful tender drive models as acceptable models, and those before to avoid. Be aware that at least some of the later Railroad models appear to be the older tooling, and whilst will be loco drive, still retain the tender chassis that was designed to take the tender drive and has a pivoting final axle arrangement. 
 

Earlier ‘super detail’ models have the DCC socket in the loco with later ones having this socket moved to the tender. I’m not aware of the body mouldings changing in this period of tinkering with the chassis. All of these super detail models have finer fluted connecting rods and detailed valve gear, whilst the pre DCC ready models appear to have cruder valve gear of a pressed flat metal component type.   
 

Essentially if it is DCC ready and not railroad, it’s an acceptable model. Be warned that there is one model that seems to straddle the change - Quicksilver in BR green - that is the later model but fitted with cruder earlier pressed metal style valve gear. 
 

Clarke Railworks currently have lots of A4s on sale from £100 and up which might include an acceptable wartime black type. They also have the latest Bachmann model which I also find quite good - retooled with full new chassis and DCC ready. 
 

Edit: they did have one in wartime black of the new tooled type but unfortunately it shows as sold now. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Jenny Emily

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, Jenny Emily said:

. They also have the latest Bachmann model which I also find quite good - retooled with full new chassis and DCC ready. 
 

The Bachmann model has not had the body shell retooled since Bachmann resurrected the former Trix then Lilliput model in the early 1990s. What has been retooled is the chassis which is now DCC ready.  The body is dimensionally flawed and isn’t a patch on the Hornby version imho

[Jenny Emily]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

The Bachmann model has not had the body shell retooled since Bachmann resurrected the former Trix then Lilliput model in the early 1990s. What has been retooled is the chassis which is now DCC ready.  The body is dimensionally flawed and isn’t a patch on the Hornby version imho

I’ve been scrutinising the bodies between Bachmann and Hornby. The newer Bachmann is definitely derived from the older tooling, but the detail is certainly crisper on newer releases. There are minor details on the inside for the body fixings to the chassis.
 

Side by side, yes there are differences, but I had to put them side by side and look hard to pick them out. The Hornby model is better, but often at twice the price of the Bachmann one. 

Many of the problems with the older split chassis model have definitely been resolved with the new chassis. For the price point these models can be had for, I don’t see a problem with them. To be honest, the differences are not enough to discount these newer DCC ready Bachmann versions.  
 

 

 

From top to bottom: new Bachmann, super detail Hornby, and old split chassis Bachmann. 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Jenny Emily
Removed stray comma

[DougN]

4 hours ago, Jenny Emily said:

 

Clarke Railworks currently have lots of A4s on sale from £100 and up which might include an acceptable wartime black type.

They have 3 less now! Thanks Jenny😃...again I have completed the locos I was looking for. I am not sure that the Dominion of Canada is a Hornby original but the weathering from TMC is nice. 

 

Dare I say what a collection. I do wonder when Hornby will complete the Coronation 5 in Blue as they have now done Com. of Australia, Dominion of Canada, with Empire of India coming in the next few months. This leaves Dominion of NZ and Union of South Africa to complete the issues. May be this is their thinking for the Coronation Carriages in the short term. I would have thought that U of Sth Africa would have been a good sale version as the loco is still in existence though I dont think they have ever re fitted in the skirts in my knowledge during preservation. 

[PeterStiles]

On 15/09/2023 at 23:38, DougN said:

U of Sth Africa

My Boer wife would bite my arm off for a blue UoSA to run with the coronation coaches. In her mind all the best trains are blue.

[Coldgunner]

On 17/09/2023 at 10:49, PeterStiles said:

My Boer wife would bite my arm off for a blue UoSA to run with the coronation coaches. In her mind all the best trains are blue.

Thomas says hi! :D

[Coldgunner]

On 15/09/2023 at 23:38, DougN said:

They have 3 less now! Thanks Jenny😃...again I have completed the locos I was looking for. I am not sure that the Dominion of Canada is a Hornby original but the weathering from TMC is nice. 

 

Dare I say what a collection. I do wonder when Hornby will complete the Coronation 5 in Blue as they have now done Com. of Australia, Dominion of Canada, with Empire of India coming in the next few months. This leaves Dominion of NZ and Union of South Africa to complete the issues. May be this is their thinking for the Coronation Carriages in the short term. I would have thought that U of Sth Africa would have been a good sale version as the loco is still in existence though I dont think they have ever re fitted in the skirts in my knowledge during preservation. 

 

I've got the version of COA from a few years ago, Hornby seemed to have made a hash of the nameplate and were selling them off cheap at shows, think mine cost about £75!

[DougN]

10 hours ago, Coldgunner said:

 

I've got the version of COA from a few years ago, Hornby seemed to have made a hash of the nameplate and were selling them off cheap at shows, think mine cost about £75!

Mine was a bit more than that from a emporium near Liverpool!... it was the A4 that started off my short term obsession.... The loco needed extra work to restore the DCC connection in the tender and rewire it! Any how.. your right the name plates are generally pretty bad. I might think about purchasing new plates for all the locos from Fox or similar. I was reading in Yeadons that the name plates were to be red backed... however all the Hornby A4's in LNER are black backed... I need to keep researching and figure this out...  

[DerbyLNWR]

Many thanks all - lots of useful advice there.