British Transport Films - The Copyright

[signalnorth]

I always enjoy watching these fantastic old films from the 40's 50's and 60's  . Got me wondering who exactly holds the copyright to these now, if anyone?

[Jeremy Cumberland]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/copyright-notice-duration-of-copyright-term/copyright-notice-duration-of-copyright-term says

Quote

 

70 years after the death of the last surviving author, director, writer, or composer. If the identity of these persons is unknown then the term is 70 years from creation, or if released to the public, 70 years from being made available.

 

 

I've just watched the beginning and end of Mishap (1958) to see how it is credited. and no individuals are named, so I imagine the copyright will formally expire in 2028. However, since it is freely available on YouTube, it seems the copyright isn't actually enforced.

 

 

Wikipedia says that all former BR films were acquired by the BFI when British Rail was broken up, so presumably they are the current copyright holders. They sell DVDs of BTF films. Here is a set that includes Mishap: https://shop.bfi.org.uk/british-transport-films-discovering-railways.html

[bmthtrains - David]

The 70 years rule is not quite right as it only came into force in 1988. Depending on when the footage was taken the copyright may be quite different.

 

David 

[RichardT]

Oh joy - another copyright discussion. 

 

All I'll add is that the  *duration* of copyright, as defined by the various copyright acts usually as a period of years after the death of a defined creator, is not the same thing as who *owns* the copyright.  A copyright is a piece of property and can be bought, sold or given away separately from ownership of the physical copyrightable item. 

 

BFI may have acquired the physical BTF film archive, but may not have acquired the copyrights from BTF or its successors in law. Many archives own the physical stuff but not the copyright.  But the BFI would be the people I'd ask first as they are most likely to know. 

 

(I won't even get into the tangled issue of the separate copyrights in components of the films - any photographic stills associated with the film, the text of the script, any musical score used on the soundtrack, and the recorded soundtrack itself.)

 

And as for YouTube - it's a lawless jungle of copyright infringement and only the deepest pockets can afford to pursue legal action against it.

 

RichardT 

Edited September 20, 2023 by RichardT
Adding a bit

[Wheatley]

And the copyright on the digitally remastered BFI box sets starts all over again on the date they're released. 

[Mike Bellamy]

I have British Transport Films Collection Volume One called "On and Off the Rails" which has been produced by the British Film Institute but I can't see anywhere when this was first "digitally remastered" and released for sale.. Two DVDs containing 14 films. The booklet lists the names of the director, producer, executive producer, script writer, photographers, editor and composer (and that's just for the film 'Blue Pullman').  Others only list director and narrator, and one out of the 14 has no credits at all.

 

Written on each disc "Warning. All rights of the producer and owner of the work reproduced reserved. Unauthorised copying, hiring, lending, public performance, radio or TV broadcasting of this DVD prohibited".

 

From the other information given, BTF started in 1949 and was running until closure in 1986, producing around 700 films.

.

[signalnorth]

Clear as mud then really!!! Thanks for the replies. 

[kevinlms]

BTF I believe was the putting together of the Big 4 film/publicity departments, when British Railways came into being. So the copyright presumably depends on when the films were made, and not just 1949.

[darrel]

I can't remember all the details but if something a piece of music or film is remastered or remixed the copyright starts from the date it was released to the public

A few years ago a number of previously unreleased early Beatles recordings were released unannounced on the Internet for about 2 hours all remastered. Before being taken back down. Apparently the reason for this was so they could say they had been released to the public and increase the copyright period. I presume they hoped that nobody would notice and download the tracks. Well someone did and managed to grab them and they now circulate between collectors. 

I'm presuming the same will apply with the BTF films if they were released on DVD Or blu Ray remastered then the copyright date will start from then. 

[adb968008]

Even the Mickey Mouse Protection Acts couldnt save the mouse house from losing their star rodent to time eventually…

https://time.com/6551496/mickey-mouse-public-domain-steamboat-willie/

 

Mickeys’ now a foul mouthed killer in some new films.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey's_Mouse_Trap

Edited March 22 by adb968008