NNV/NNX Courier Vehicles - What were they used for?

[18B]

In early 1989 a number of MkIs were converted to vacuum only NNV and dual braked NNX "courier vehicles", but what exactly were they used for?   

[Wickham Green too]

I think it's a secret - that's why we don't know ! 🙄

[Paul H Vigor]

12 minutes ago, 18B said:

In early 1989 a number of MkIs were converted to vacuum only NNV and dual braked NNX "courier vehicles", but what exactly were they used for?   

High security mail and parcels traffic, apparently.

http://www.srpsmuseum.org.uk/80221.htm

Edited September 23, 2023 by Paul H Vigor
to add information

[Pacific231G]

According to the Scottish Railway Preservation Society, who have one at Boness they use as  a mess for station staff, they were used for high security mail and parcels traffic that was accompanied en route. The first were converted in 1986 so they don't seem to have had a very long life. Were they perhaps a response to the great train robbery?

They retained one passenger compartment and the toilet. 

I don't know what if anything was used for this purpose before they were built in Britain but in France, where mail had to be accompanied by a postal "agent", they had specially built bag carrying coaches known as Alleges Postales  which also had accomodation including a toilet for the posties. These were distinct from TPO coaches. There were also of course horse boxes that included a compartment for the grooms. 

I don't know how they were classified in Britain but in France, couriers, groms and accompanying drovers were not classed as passengers (so certain rules didn't apply) but sorting staff in TPOs were. That meant- among other things- that a wooden bodied TPO couldn't be marshalled immediately behind the locomotive (passengers in wooden bodied had to be separated by a non-passenger vehicle or failing that by three passenger compartments locked out of service)

Edited September 23, 2023 by Pacific231G

[18B]

25 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

According to the Scottish Railway Preservation Society, who have one at Boness they use as  a mess for station staff, they were used for high security mail and parcels traffic that was accompanied en route. The first were converted in 1986 so they don't seem to have had a very long life. Were they perhaps a response to the great train robbery?

They retained one passenger compartment and the toilet. 

I don't know what if anything was used for this purpose before they were built in Britain but in France, where mail had to be accompanied by a postal "agent", they had specially built bag carrying coaches known as Alleges Postales  which also had accomodation including a toilet for the posties. These were distinct from TPO coaches. There were also of course horse boxes that included a compartment for the grooms. 

I don't know how they were classified in Britain but in France, couriers, groms and accompanying drovers were not classed as passengers (so certain rules didn't apply) but sorting staff in TPOs were. That meant- among other things- that a wooden bodied TPO couldn't be marshalled immediately behind the locomotive (passengers in wooden bodied had to be separated by a non-passenger vehicle or failing that by three passenger compartments locked out of service)

 

thank you and much appreciated, 

[drjcontroller]

Forgive the shameless plug, here's one on the WCML on a southbound van train.

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

 The first were converted in 1986 so they don't seem to have had a very long life. Were they perhaps a response to the great train robbery?

 

Seems unlikely as the robbery was in 1963.

Probably just a review of their security methods in the light of more recent experience

[18B]

2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Seems unlikely as the robbery was in 1963.

Probably just a review of their security methods in the light of more recent experience

 

It was possibly just more of an effort to improve the travelling conditions of the staff? 

 

Also the other main part of their conversion was the additional of roller shutter doors and sealing up of the old slam doors. 

[Hesperus]

10 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Were they perhaps a response to the great train robbery?

 

No but this was.

 

https://www.nlr.org.uk/about-nlr/stock-list/coaches/br-mk-1-vxx-bullion-van-889301/

[Steven B]

They were found regularly on the Huddersfield to Workington TPO:

Bee Line (2) by Andrew Gallon, on Flickr

 

TPO Workington 1990 by Dave Marks, on Flickr

 

I believe three compartments were removed but with access to the area created restricted, rather than being open access like other BG/POS/POT vans.

 

Steven B

[Matt37268]

I believe a certain TOC from Lancashire still uses at least one as a support coach for its fleet, 5029 also used one as a support coach in the mid 1990’s.

I’m not sure what happened to 80776 that was used as a mess/workshop/storage coach by the Fifty Fund and DTG before the depot was built at Kidderminster. 

[Wickham Green too]

Interesting what happened to 80776 : - http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=2092

 

[adb968008]

On 23/09/2023 at 14:06, drjcontroller said:

Forgive the shameless plug, here's one on the WCML on a southbound van train.

 

 

Obviously not that high security, the first door’s windows is fully open, as is the guards !

Edited September 25, 2023 by adb968008

[Hairy Bear Digital]

They were staffed primarily for the special delivery traffic which had just been introduced. 

The service I used to work Leicester  to Derby was booked for one to travel with it but they were not always so due to staff shortages. A cushy/ steady number for those involved.

[The Stationmaster]

On 23/09/2023 at 21:36, Hesperus said:

 

No but this was.

 

https://www.nlr.org.uk/about-nlr/stock-list/coaches/br-mk-1-vxx-bullion-van-889301/

No doubt to replace older bullion vans.   The ex-GWR ones were still in regular use in 1965/6 but by then must have been almost on their last legs and distinctly unsuited to the sustained higher running speeds of the. diesel age.  The 'only' differences from the GWR vans was doors on both sides and the addition of an avccommodation area.