ESP Ψ Aegis 5 Amp Wireless System for PowerCab

[Crosland]

5 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Although I ticked ‘agree’ above, I’m not sure it’s absolute.  Stalling a motor is probably unusual

 

It's not really about actual stalling which, as you say, is unusual. A loco being driven hard, that is heavily loaded, will slow down. The Back EMF will decrease and the motor current will increase. The "stall current" is the absolute worst case limit of this process (maximum voltage applied, very low speed). Unless the loco itself is very heavy and has very good grip, the wheels are more likely to slip before you reach the stall current.

 

[smokebox]

A decoders ability to handle stall current can be needed in the case of mechanical problems in the loco such as a broken component or a foreign object becoming  jammed in the mechanism resulting in a stalled motor.

[melmerby]

Decent decoders will cut out before the magic smoke takes over.

[Tallpaul69]

Good Evening All,

Dragging this thread back to its original purpose, I have been watching U tube videos on the Roco Z21.

 

One cause for concern, which may be out of date as the videos were several years old, is that it appears that the Firmware updates cannot be downloaded via iPhone or iPad?

If this is the case, I will need to acquire a non apple devise just for these updates, as I don't have access to one currently!

 

If this is the case, is there a way round it?

How often are firmware updates issued on average? If only once every couple of years maybe I can ignore them, if every few months it is a problem I have to deal with.

 

How do users go on who only have wireless handsets?

 

Cheers 

Paul

 

[Kaput]

There is an iOS Z21 Updater app nowadays.

[melmerby]

The Z21 website shows this (I always believe manufacturers info over you tube twaddle)

https://www.z21.eu/en/downloads/software-tools

Edited October 11, 2023 by melmerby

[Tallpaul69]

10 minutes ago, melmerby said:

The Z21 website shows this (I always believe manufacturers info over you tube twaddle)

https://www.z21.eu/en/downloads/software-tools

Firstly, I did say that the U tube information was probably out of date, so I see no need to have a go at U tube!

 

Secondly, the reference you quote is clear that there are two versions of the app and updates for both, but I wasn't talking about updates to the app, I was talking about updates to the Firmware in the Z21 box. Unfortunately, the reference is full of techie speak, so is worse than the U tube, which was merely out of date.

 

Never mind, I am sure I will find someone to give me a straight plain speak answer at Great Electric Show on Saturday.

 

Thanks All,

Paul 

[WIMorrison]

Paul,

 

You will get more success looking for videos on YouTube 😉

 

You will also find the app for updating the Z21 firmware on the Apple App Store. Simply enter Z21 in the search bar and you will be offered z21, z21 mobile (you do not want this app), and z21Updater. Or, you could simply have looked at the link provided by @melmerby which shows very clearly - not in the slightest techie

 

 

as a certain animal says, Simples

Edited October 11, 2023 by WIMorrison

[Tallpaul69]

16 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

Paul,

 

You will get more success looking for videos on YouTube 😉

 

You will also find the app for updating the Z21 firmware on the Apple App Store. Simply enter Z21 in the search bar and you will be offered z21, z21 mobile (you do not want this app), and z21Updater. Or, you could simply have looked at the link provided by @melmerby which shows very clearly - not in the slightest techie

 

 

as a certain animal says, Simples

Okay,

So the Updater App, updates the firmware in the Z21 box? This was not immediately obvious to me!

 

The Techie stuff, was in an item earlier up the page called the Maintenance App!

I started at the top of the page, and after looking at the detail in this Maintenance App, I somewhat gave up before getting to the Updater App, which , from its name, was not(to me at any rate!) obvious as to what it was, or was for!

Many thanks

Paul 

[WIMorrison]

I think what you meant to say was - Thank You

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

Firstly, I did say that the U tube information was probably out of date, so I see no need to have a go at U tube!

I don't like the idea of taking a subject that could be explained in a few words or with a hotlink (or both) and expanding it into a bloated 30 minute video, which I find difficult to concentrate on.

It's amazing how often this crops up, with several posters putting their own slightly different interpretations on the data being presented.

 

N.B. IMHO some video presentations are pretty good, e.g. Rudy Boer's videos on Model Railways, Traincontroller & Arduinos. (Not all at the same time!)

I learnt a lot from them.

[Tallpaul69]

Good day one and all,

Sorry WIMorrison if you thought i did not appreciate your last post- I did say "Many thanks" at the end of my reply!

Also:-

I was amused by Melmerby's post:-

Quote- "It's amazing how often this crops up, with several posters putting their own slightly different interpretations on the data being presented."

Unfortunately, U Tube, is not the only place this occurs- I have even found it on RMWeb!

But enough of this frivolity, lats get back to the subject in hand?

 

If I go down the Roco route, ignoring for the moment the z21 or Z21 debate, I have to decide whether to go for a wireless handset or a iPad.

I am ruling out the iPhone option as I don't think it works for me - the screens presentation looks too small, and there could be the need for too much screen hopping, as against the greater information on the iPad screen.

 

The handset option appeals to me, mainly I suppose because that is what I am use to, but it will have the benefit of freedom of movement. However, I am not yet clear how downloading of updates works with a handset.

 

While the screen display and ease of operation using an iPad appeals to me, the larger physical size could be a drawback.

My operating area is some 9 ft long, but the width is only 1ft 9 ins at its narrowest and 2ft 3 ins at its widest. There are few places where track is further than an inch or so from the edge. 

On the face of it there is nowhere to put an iPad down.

So Before I spend out on an iPad, I need to borrow one to assess its useability in the operating area. 

 

Additionally, I would have to use the iPad on battery, as a power lead would negate the mobility benefits of being wireless!

 

Doubtless I can resolve some of the above at the Great Electric Show on Saturday.

Cheers for now,

Paul

 

 

 

[Kaput]

2 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

The handset option appeals to me, mainly I suppose because that is what I am use to, but it will have the benefit of freedom of movement. However, I am not yet clear how downloading of updates works with a handset.

 

In short, they don't. The Z21 can only be updated by either the Z21 Updater mobile app or the maintainence tool on a PC.

 

 

If using sound fitted locos you'll rapidly find using a phone or tablet is much better than a handset for accessing the functions and the Z21 app gives complete flexiblity about the order the functions are laid out on screen without having to go to the hassle of actually remapping functions on the decoder.

 

As an example, SFX Bachmann Class 37/4 has the high intensity headlight on F15. With most handsets that would require a couple of button presses to access. In the app you can literally just put the button for it on the first page of functions if you wanted.

 

Bare in mind, it doesn't need to be an iPad. The apps are available on Android and getting an Android tablet suitable for it is most likely a much lower outlay than an iPad.

[Izzy]

I didn't want to use my iphone and found my ipad pro was just too large to be comfortable so I bought a large android phone to use with my system from Currys for just £59 earlier this year. Not too expensive for use as a throttle.

 

Bob

[5BarVT]

Hi Paul,

I’ve been operating Newhaven Harbour recently.  They use Digitrax (which would give you what you want, but only as a start ftprom scratch).  They have wireless throttles and a wifi connectivity (different comms boxes unfortunately).

They will be at Warley in November and I may well be with them on the Saturday.  I’m sure they would be happy to show you how their system fits together and what the wifi throttle looks and feels like.

It’s quite interesting as some operators want to use the throttles whereas others (including me) prefer the wifi throttle.  That just proves it’s a very personal thing, so the opportunity to try before you buy is important.

I use a redundant iPad mini and a redundant iPhone, both retired because the battery was shot, but there is enough juice for a couple of hours operating with the phone and more with the iPad. They have USB power sockets around the layout so it would even be possible to use the phone on charge and move it from one socket to another.

WiThrottle is the Apple app, I think Engine Driver is the Android equivalent. Very similar, but not identical.

Agree with Izzy above that an iPad Pro would feel too big.

Paul.

[Tallpaul69]

Hi Kaput, Izzy and Paul,

Thanks for the input guys, I will update the thread, after my visit to the Great Electric Show on Saturday.

 

Cheers,

Paul 

[melmerby]

7 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

So Before I spend out on an iPad, I need to borrow one to assess its useability in the operating area. 

Why an iPad? Why not an Android unit?

They are a lot cheaper and for use on a model railway IMHO just as good.

I have used a Samsung Tab on my Z21 setup, although mostly the Roco WLAN Maus (wireless) handset when manual use is required.

I find speed control is much easier with the rotary knob on the Maus, compared to a finger on a screen.

[melmerby]

8 hours ago, Tallpaul69 said:

I was amused by Melmerby's post:-

Quote- "It's amazing how often this crops up, with several posters putting their own slightly different interpretations on the data being presented."

Unfortunately, U Tube, is not the only place this occurs- I have even found it on RMWeb!

At least it's written down🙂

I can read a post in a couple of minutes, if it was on You Tube it would be a half hour presentation😄

[5BarVT]

9 hours ago, melmerby said:

Why an iPad? Why not an Android unit?

They are a lot cheaper and for use on a model railway IMHO just as good.

Agreed, not that I’ve used one.  I only use iDevices as I have redundant ones - ‘free’ (as in already paid for and written down) is even less than cheap.  If I was buying specifically I would almost certainly go Android.

An amusing story for you:

Having seen Newhaven Harbour’s wifi capabilities I bought the Digitrax LNWI and set it up.  I used my current phone to see that it worked - successfully, then went off to do other stuff around the house.  Later, I tried to use wifi on the phone to access the internet - zilch.  Oh dear!

Phone could see the LNWI in the room above and had auto connected to that rather than the router . . .

Easy to sort, just ‘forget’ the LNWI connection.   Hence why I use dedicated devices to the train, given that I have them.

Paul.

[5BarVT]

Hi Paul,

 

WFRM (owners of Newhaven Harbour) will be at GETS with their Demo layout. (No scenery, just ‘how to’ for track and electrics.). I’ve just checked and it has a LNWI fitted so they will be able to show you it working and let you give it a try.

 

Paul.

[jaym481]

I have an iPhone and use an inexpensive (cheaper than a WiFiMaus handset) android tablet with a 10" screen. I also have a WiFi Maus, as I eventually tired of the "slider" throttle on the tablet, so now the tablet is mainly used to control points etc. Either the iPhone or the tablet can have the Z21Updater app, and it's easy to use, or I found it so the last time I updated the firmware on the Z21.

 

Our household is a mix of device and computer ecosystems for a variety of reasons, but I've never been tempted to re-puropse one of my wife's older iPad minis for the railway, and I certainly am not inclined to splash out for a new iPad when an inexpensive Android tablet will do.

 

Jay

[jamesed]

You aren't restricted to just one type of control with the Z21. Use as many as you like - even mix android and ios if you wish.  I use two Lenovo M10 tablets (the 2nd gen version with 3Gb RAM) which you can buy for about £100, I also have a wifi Multimaus and I often have my androud phone connected too.  My tablets are most of the time mounted on gooseneck brackets clamped to the side of my baseboard but can quickly and easily be removed when I want them to go mobile - sprung loaded arms. The power leads can be plugged in when in the gooseneck brackets. 

 

The Lenovo tablets work brilliantly well and never give any problem.  You can pick up the 2Gb RAM versions for about £75 which are probably ok too.  I just decided to play it safe with the 3Gb version. I think Roco recommend 3Gb but that is probably overkill. 

 

[Tallpaul69]

5 hours ago, jamesed said:

You aren't restricted to just one type of control with the Z21. Use as many as you like - even mix android and ios if you wish.  I use two Lenovo M10 tablets (the 2nd gen version with 3Gb RAM) which you can buy for about £100, I also have a wifi Multimaus and I often have my androud phone connected too.  My tablets are most of the time mounted on gooseneck brackets clamped to the side of my baseboard but can quickly and easily be removed when I want them to go mobile - sprung loaded arms. The power leads can be plugged in when in the gooseneck brackets. 

 

The Lenovo tablets work brilliantly well and never give any problem.  You can pick up the 2Gb RAM versions for about £75 which are probably ok too.  I just decided to play it safe with the 3Gb version. I think Roco recommend 3Gb but that is probably overkill. 

 

My main concern about android devices stems from lack of experience of them. We are an ios household and have been for many years (except for our laptops)!

I do wonder about the effectiveness of the "slider" throttles on the tablets as expresses by another contributor, but that may just be due to my familiarity with the NCE thumbwheel.

I guess I could start with a tablet and add a Wifi throttle if I found I did not get on with the "slider" throttle. 

 

The gooseneck brackets sound interesting - are they a commercial product, if so who supplies them?

Cheers

Paul

[melmerby]

26 minutes ago, Tallpaul69 said:

We are an ios household and have been for many years (except for our laptops)!

We are  an anti-iOS household. 😁

 

[jaym481]

35 minutes ago, Tallpaul69 said:

I do wonder about the effectiveness of the "slider" throttles on the tablets as expresses by another contributor, but that may just be due to my familiarity with the NCE thumbwheel.

I guess I could start with a tablet and add a Wifi throttle if I found I did not get on with the "slider" throttle. 

If you like your NCE handset you can connect it to a Z21 through the sniffer input.