GWR 3 plank wagons appreciation thread

[Coach bogie]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That was my first thought, but then I became convinced I wasn't seeing the increased spacing for the first and second class compartments in the rear carriage, but looking again, I've come back round to your view. That would mean three E40 pairs, one assigned to the Helston branch; where were the other two?

 

This set has two first class, two second class, and eight third class compartments, carried on eight axles, in heavy bogie frames. The equivalent accommodation could be provided by a set of four-wheelers - first/second composite, third, and third brake - on six axles, and altogether lighter running gear, and cheaper to construct, too. One can see why many more of the four-wheelers were built than these low-roof bogie non-corridor carriages!

The E40 pair was cheaper to maintain and could run at higher speeds on the mainline and for passengers, a much more comfortable ride. Having ridden on a metropolitan four wheeler at speed, I can see why they the four wheelers were replaced with bogie coaches.

 

Built up Worsley etches.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

[Miss Prism]

12 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

That would mean three E40 pairs, one assigned to the Helston branch; where were the other two?

 

An E40 pair was often used on the St Ives branch. This pic is 1928. Not sure when the E40s disappeared, but E116s and of course (later) the ubiquitous E140s predominated.

 

[Coach bogie]

In later years they were being used as separate vehicles.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Edited April 16 by Coach bogie

[Miss Prism]

Here's an E40 pair sandwiching a shorter coach (6-wheeler brake compo?) at Carbis Bay.  It is c pre-1913, because of the lack of loco topfeed, so the stock is either in brown or possibly crimson lake. Loco and stock are very clean and shiny, but the coach rooves are already a dull grey.

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

Here's an E40 pair sandwiching a shorter coach (6-wheeler brake compo?) at Carbis Bay.  

 

The gas pipe runs along opposite sides of the roofs - so on the same side of the set when coupled with brake ends outermost. Does this demonstrate that they were built as a pair?

 

Destination board brackets on one of the pair only - the same seems to be the case with the St Ives set (electrically-lit?) but I can't see any on the Helston pair.

 

Apologies for this thread drift away from 3-plank wagons!

Edited April 16 by Compound2632

[Miss Prism]

Yes, three E40 pairs. Perhaps one was a spare, being cleaned, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were used on the Falmouth branch, or perhaps the Newquay-St Blazey services.

 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

The E40 pair was cheaper to maintain and could run at higher speeds on the mainline and for passengers, a much more comfortable ride.

 

The last point is undoubtedly true. As to speed, were there speed restrictions on non-bogie stock that would actually affect their ordinary usage? I do struggle to see how three or four four-wheelers could be more expensive to maintain than a pair of bogie carriages, with the added complexity of the bogie suspension.

[Coach bogie]

54 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The last point is undoubtedly true. As to speed, were there speed restrictions on non-bogie stock that would actually affect their ordinary usage? I do struggle to see how three or four four-wheelers could be more expensive to maintain than a pair of bogie carriages, with the added complexity of the bogie suspension.

Only two coaches rather than four to gas up, check the vac brake system, emergency brake, heating pipes, coupling condition etc. less staff hours. Usual time and motion applications the railways loved at the time.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

Only two coaches rather than four to gas up, check the vac brake system, emergency brake, heating pipes, coupling condition etc. less staff hours. Usual time and motion applications the railways loved at the time.

 

Ah, we are working to different definitions of 'maintain'. I was thinking, fewer bearings to keep adequately lubricated, fewer bearing springs to set, simpler brake linkage to keep in adjustment... Less to go wrong, all round!

[Coach bogie]

13 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Ah, we are working to different definitions of 'maintain'. I was thinking, fewer bearings to keep adequately lubricated, fewer bearing springs to set, simpler brake linkage to keep in adjustment... Less to go wrong, all round!

I think it is easier to agree to disagree. History shows that 4 and 6 wheeler designs were phased out and bogie designed coaches used to this day.  The ride quality was a major factor with bus competition taking away customers.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Compound2632]

11 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

I think it is easier to agree to disagree. History shows that 4 and 6 wheeler designs were phased out and bogie designed coaches used to this day.  The ride quality was a major factor with bus competition taking away customers.

 

Yes indeed but there's also no doubt that improvements in passenger comfort were one of the many factors that from the turn of the century ate into operating margins - all part and parcel of the 20th century slide into unprofitability.

[Andy Keane]

I definitely plan an E40 pair for Helston, but also an E19 pair as well. Then throw in various odds and sods of four and six wheel stock, siphons, horse boxes, etc.

But I am still mystified by the three plank wagon added to the E19s

Andy

[Andy Keane]

10 hours ago, Mikkel said:

 

 

Here's one of the best photos I know of GWR corduroy. And some familar stock. This is alledgedly 1905.

 

 

 

But no 3-plankers in that shot, so here is one to compensate.

 

 

And the nice Dean 0-4-4T loco.

[Compound2632]

33 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

And the nice Dean 0-4-4T loco.

 

Goes without saying. Which is why it wasn't said.

[Andy Keane]

7 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Here's an E40 pair sandwiching a shorter coach (6-wheeler brake compo?) at Carbis Bay.  It is c pre-1913, because of the lack of loco topfeed, so the stock is either in brown or possibly crimson lake. Loco and stock are very clean and shiny, but the coach rooves are already a dull grey.

 

 

 

And a tiny pony attached to the luggage truck! Did not know they did that. I suppose it’s the ramp up to the road.

[drduncan]

I'm going to start a Dean low roofed brake tricomposite appreciation thread...just sayin'

😁

D

[stevel]

I believe one other pair of E40's was used on the Falmouth branch, generally with a U29 sandwiched between them. I have a 3d designs started, but need to find time to finish them and get them printed.

 

[Penrhos1920]

On 16/04/2024 at 19:45, drduncan said:

I'm going to start a Dean low roofed brake tricomposite appreciation thread...just sayin'

😁

D

 

Please can U12, U17, U22, U25 & U26 join in?  U27 & U29 are very dissappointed that they are excluded.

[drduncan]

3 hours ago, Penrhos1920 said:

 

Please can U12, U17, U22, U25 & U26 join in?  U27 & U29 are very dissappointed that they are excluded.

Of course! GWR appreciation is fully inclusive and welcomes the diversity of approach provided by our clerestory brethren. 

[Chrisbr]

On 16/04/2024 at 07:13, Compound2632 said:

where it switches to conventional chaired bullhead rail, with a significant step in ground level.

Presumably achieved as shown here - 

 

Never noticed a real life example before..

[Andy Keane]

5 minutes ago, Chrisbr said:

Presumably achieved as shown here - 

 

Never noticed a real life example before..

Now modelling that would be a real subtlety!

[Coach bogie]

On 16/04/2024 at 18:28, Coach bogie said:

Pic of the etch here. Makes up into a nice pair of coaches. They are where the B set idea came from. 

 

Mike Wiltshire

I needed a break from building 70 footers. As one of the etches was out I decided to build it.

Mike Wiltshire

[Andy Keane]

2 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

I needed a break from building 70 footers. As one of the etches was out I decided to build it.

Mike Wiltshire

Very nice indeed. Could you post a list of all the extra bits and bobs you needed alongside the etch and where they came from please?

[drduncan]

This may be of interest…

I am a man of my word….

Duncan

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, drduncan said:

This may be of interest…

I am a man of my word….

Duncan

Thanks - and sorry for not noticing earlier. Hopefully @Coach bogie can post a response there!