GWR 3 plank wagons appreciation thread

[drduncan]

@Mikkel Yes its a 3 plank and looking at the angle the number should be visible unless its weathered away - the G.W.R is quite indistinct.

D

[drduncan]

On 20/12/2023 at 17:23, drduncan said:

A fitched example

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1211.htm

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1213.htm

 

Feel free to add more links to images of GWR 3 plank wagons!

 

D

The WSB record for 6117

lot 249, Iron underframe, rod buffers, double shoe brakes, grease axle boxes, 9 tons downgraded to 8 (undated), tare 4-17-0, 4-18-0 (ND, possibly at same time load downrated), 4-10-0 dated 13/12/19, built Swindon 10 Dec 1881, Tx to Engineering departmental list no 80256 on 27 Feb 1924.

[drduncan]

21 hours ago, WillCav said:

Early 3 plankers seem to be mostly listed in the 3xxxx, 4xxxx and 1xxxx ranges.

I would guess 31534 as:

1) listed in Atkins Beard etc as a 3 plank from lot L211

2) looks like a rounded top number

 

This number is later used by one of the final O11s by 1919.

 

Will

WSB for 31534:

lot 211, wood underframe with iron cover plates, grease axle boxes, spring buffers, double shoe brakes, 9 tons (downrated to 8 no date), tare 4-17-0 (build?), 4-8-0 (ND possibly when downrated to 8 tons), built Swindon 11 Dec 1880, condemned Swindon 29 Nov 1913.

 

D 

[MikeOxon]

2 hours ago, Mikkel said:

A much cropped scene from Hemyock

I tried even more cropping and 'enhancement', although the printing screen is intrusive. 

 

With a little imagination, I can see the 'To carry 8(?) Tons' legend and, even more tentatively, a '9' digit but, as Mikkel said, there is a leafy twig across most of the number.

 

 

[Compound2632]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. 

[Hal Nail]

The GWR built a couple of 3 plank wagons in 1939, on 10' fitted underframes, originally for container use. They were basically a cut down standard 5 plank, with a small side door and the sloping bottom plank, the term for which escapes me.

 

Photo in Pre-Nationalisation Freight Wagons on British Railways, Larkin.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Hal Nail

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, Hal Nail said:

and the sloping bottom plank, the term for which escapes me.

 

sack truck door

 

[Compound2632]

I have half a feeling we've seen this before:

 

 

[Embedded link to RuralHistoria website; article on oak bark here: https://ruralhistoria.com/2023/11/30/oak-bark/]

[wagonman]

A couple more 3-plankers, one with round ends and one with iron underfame.

 

 

This is the GWR ballast quarry at Dulcote before Foster Yeoman moved in next door. The wagon has a five digit number starting with a '3' – better than that I cannot manage – so it was built as capital stock rather than as a renewal.

 

 

 

Here we have 39521  at, I think, Keinton Mandeville station on the Castle Cary to Cogload Jcn line just before opening in 1906. No lettering visible on the side of the wagons – possibly an effect of the lighting rather than a total absence.

 

 

Richard

 

Edited January 4 by wagonman

[drduncan]

@wagonman thanks for posting the images.

I think the round ended one has a wooden frame with iron cover plates - the v hanger can be seen but no crown plates above the w irons. I’ll see if a can identify any suspects unless someone else gets there first.

 

Duncan

[Compound2632]

39 minutes ago, drduncan said:

@wagonman thanks for posting the images.

 

In the first photo, also a 4-plank open with cast plates - possibly a 4-digit number with x45x? Or 5 digits x45xx? If the latter, I think it has to be from lot 313, 200 wagons Nos. 74426-74625. If it was 645xx, i.e. lot 122 or 128, it would I think be too early for cast plates.

 

I think the 3-plank round-end wagon has 5 or 6 as its middle digit, which does narrow the field - in fact I can't find a fit.

 

In the second photo, featuring No. 39521 (old series lot 323), we have a couple of 1-plank wagons and three 4-plank wagons, the middle one of which has cast plates.

[Northroader]

Can we talk about 4plankers as well on here? If so here’s two as match wagons. In the yard of Horsehay and Dawley station in Shropshire. The Horsehay Co. specialised in girders for cranes and bridges. I can see how the girder is chained down on the bogies, I can guess that they are linked by a rigid bar, I can presume the underslung chains are for traction forces, but I’m mystified how the buffing forces pass from the wagons to the girder.

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, Northroader said:

I’m mystified how the buffing forces pass from the wagons to the girder.

 

I think I see a buffer beam attached to each end of the girder. The outer end can just be made out at the near end:

 

 

[brightness adjusted]

 

and at the far end there's clarly a dark beam blocking the view of the wagon headstock and buffers:

 

 

 

[Northroader]

So there’s a nice big thick plank each end. That’s a different way of going on, anyway.

[Schooner]

It is! Lodged in my 'useful prototype excuses for strange carry on' folder, ta!

[Northroader]

Do you know, Stephen, looking at your enlargement of the near end, I think I can see a pair of retaining straps bolted to the plank and passing behind the buffer head to secure the plank.

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, Northroader said:

Do you know, Stephen, looking at your enlargement of the near end, I think I can see a pair of retaining straps bolted to the plank and passing behind the buffer head to secure the plank.

 

I believe you are right. My first assumption had been that the beam was attached to the girder.

[Mikkel]

Acid. 

 

 

[Mikkel]

I was intrigued by the chalk scribblings, telling stories of long lost journeys.

 

 

 

 

 

[Simond]

Lovely photos.  What’s going on with the bump stops?  

[Compound2632]

51 minutes ago, Simond said:

What’s going on with the bump stops?  

 

I see no bump stops? What I do notice is the sheet tie ring under the door but sheet tie cleats bolted to the curb rail either side.

 

Is this a bulb iron solebar? I don't think I've knowingly seen one close up.

Edited February 3 by Compound2632

[Miss Prism]

The bump stops look wooden.

 

[Compound2632]

24 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

The bump stops look wooden.

 

Ah, the bearing spring bump stops. I mistakenly thought @Simond was referring to door stops. These wooden stops look to be the same or similar in fashion to those fitted to wood-framed wagons; unsurprising to find the same used on this early iron-framed wagon?

[magmouse]

Yes, the photo shows bulb section solebars. Because these don’t have a flat bottom surfaces for the bearing spring shoes to rest against, there were wooden blocks sandwiched between the back of the solebar and the w-iron. The blocks projected down below the bottom of the solebar, which you can see in the close-up excerpt of the photo posted by Mikkel.
 

As noted, wooden bump stops for the bearing springs were used with this form of construction, similar to those used on earlier wooden underframed wagons. The inverted top hat bump stops seem to have come in with channel section solebars.

 

Regarding the sheet tie-off points commented on by Stephen, the sequence of development is as follows, as far as I can tell:

1. wooden framed wagons - rings
2. bulb section wagons - combined cleats-and-hooks where they could be fitted (ends, and on the side sheeting) but rings below the doors.  Presumably the small overhang of the bulb section solebar didn’t allow enough space for them to go under the side of the body.
3. channel section wagons - cleat-and-hooks throughout, either facing outwards (on the ends) or downwards (under the side body overhang).

Nick.

 

 

[Simond]

Yes, I did indeed mean the suspension spring bump stops.  
 

The left hand one had me confused, but it’s a trick of the light, (and a clue to the colour of the wooden bits, perhaps).