Weighbridge

[The Johnster]

I’m not happy with the colliery weighbridge at Cwmdimbath, and am looking for a replacement.  I want one with rails on, or set into, the bridge plate, and I’m sure i had one years ago with chairs on the plate that you could feed rails through.  Might have been Coopercraft.  Plenty around with road access bridge plates but not with rails, vital for a colliery.  I’d be grateful for any suggestions, of a nature suitable for a family thread of course…

[nickwood]

It was Coopercraft. EBay might be your best best.

[Right Away]

Have you considered fabricating the bridge plate by inlaying Plastikard sheet onto a length of track. The chairs could be concealed by the plastic sheet. I used this method for a level crossing some years ago, see photo. ) Please ignore wonky signal head which has been replaced.

 

[Paul H Vigor]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I’m not happy with the colliery weighbridge at Cwmdimbath, and am looking for a replacement.  I want one with rails on, or set into, the bridge plate, and I’m sure i had one years ago with chairs on the plate that you could feed rails through.  Might have been Coopercraft.  Plenty around with road access bridge plates but not with rails, vital for a colliery.  I’d be grateful for any suggestions, of a nature suitable for a family thread of course…

A connected question: were locos permitted to run over weighbridges? Fuether: were locos permitted to run over wagon turntables in goods yards??

[41516]

50 minutes ago, nickwood said:

It was Coopercraft. EBay might be your best best.

 

If you've missed the annoucement, Coopercraft have been bought by Cambrian, with the lineside kits first to be reintroduced (the rest to follow.

 

Available directly or from other stockists of Cambrian kits

 

https://www.cambrianmodelrail.co.uk/store/CC2001-Pooley-Weighbridge-p541526194

 

https://www.hamodels.net/coopercraft-by-cambrian/coopercraft-lineside-kits/cc2001-coopercraft-pooley-weighbridge.html

[Steamport Southport]

Someone used to do an etched version of the weighbridge. Can't remember who though....

 

 

3 hours ago, Paul H Vigor said:

A connected question: were locos permitted to run over weighbridges? Fuether: were locos permitted to run over wagon turntables in goods yards??

 

Yes. Some locomotives were even turned on wagon turntables. That's why Pugs and others were so small.

 

 

 

Jason

[Paul H Vigor]

24 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Someone used to do an etched version of the weighbridge. Can't remember who though....

 

 

 

Yes. Some locomotives were even turned on wagon turntables. That's why Pugs and others were so small.

 

 

 

Jason

Many thanks for the info! ☺️

[cliff park]

Would it be feasible to do the reverse of what 'Right Away' said and use the road/rail crossing bit of a level crossing as the starting  point to scratch build one?

[PMP]

This is the Coopercraft one, it takes CD75 rail.

[The Johnster]

Thanks for that, gentlemen.  Firstly, for confirming that the one I had back in the Silurian Era existed, because I wasn't quite 100% certain I hadn't dreamt it, and that it was indeed from Coopercraft.  A while ago that would have been bad news but there is a good chance that this ancient monument will be resurrected in due course, and is probably my best bet.  Plasticard inlays are what I have at present, and level crossing parts are a stopgap possibility, but the Coopercraft kit had moulded relief crosshatching detail on the bridge plate to which the chairs are bolted, which is very characteristic of these machines, and this is what I want for Dimbath Deep Navigation No.2 Pit (note the clever suggestion that there must be a No.1 somewhere down the valley).  

 

The way weighbridges were worked varied according to the colliery, as did whether engines were permitted to cross them or not.  Mine is based on one at Nantgarw Coke Ovens, which had locking bars beneath it which enabled it to be locked out of use and crossed by locomotives.  When weighing was in progress, the bars were withdrawn by signalbox-type levers in the office, and the bridge floated on it's springs.  Wagons were propelled on to it, and the tare or loaded weight taken when the bridge had settled, then the next wagon was pushed on.  The locos, Austerity Saddles, were not allowed to cross it when it was in this condition and the bars could not be moved under load, so the loco had to run around to the other end of the rake to haul the last of them over the bridge, which was then locked out of use and became part of the siding.  The rails dropped about three inches when the wagons were pushed on and the second wheelset made a decent bang as it went over the edge, which reverberated if the wagon was empty.  More of a resounding boom if it was one of those big LMS-type Hoppers!

 

At Cwmdimbath there is no opportunity to run around and the wagons are propelled on from one end by the 'bottom yard pilot', usually psuedo-Bagnall worked-up-with-a-Dowlais-chassis Dokafority 'Cyclops', then collected from the top end by one of the steam engines.

 

The weighbridge is a vitally important part of colliery surface operations, as the calculated difference between tare and loaded weights of individual wagons is the basis of invoicing to customers. without which nobody gets paid (and, trust me, they're all only doing it for the money)...  And efficient, effective surface working against the clock was vital at South Wales Valleys pits, as there was usually limited room on narrow valley floors to store reservoirs of empty wagons.  Empty wagons were needed at all times, as if you ran out of them, there was nothing to load into at the tippler, coal would back up through the processing until no more could be raised, and work underground would cease.  Now everybody is shouting at you, the managers because production was falling and the men because they were losing bonus, and the union reps because the men were hassling them...  My colliery is typical in that, as I run to a timetable, I must ensure empties are always on tap for the tippler, and that loadeds are weighed and made up into trains for the despatch times, and this balance between mts and lds pre- and post-weighing is absolutely fascinating shunting!  I'm operating a passenger and general goods branch service in the background as well...

 

Thanks to your kind input, I now have a plan of action, to use level crossing inlaid track sections, painted black and rusted a bit, to represent the bridge plate for now and procure a Coopercraft kit when one is available.  I have a job for the level crossing gates, so it won't all be wasted!

[The Johnster]

Just checked on Cambrian’s website and the Coopercraft weighbridge is in stock and available for six beer vouchers including VAT which sounds very reasonable indeed!  Order off next Wednesday (pension day), problem solved, result!

 

Tx again, chaps!

[br2975]

On 18/10/2023 at 08:36, Paul H Vigor said:

A connected question: were locos permitted to run over weighbridges? Fuether: were locos permitted to run over wagon turntables in goods yards??

.

Yes (on some) and no (not on others).

.

There were two sets of interlaced rails across some weighbridges, one set were the 'dead' rails used by trains passing over the bridge and not being weighed (and could include the loco) and also a set of 'live' rails which were used to weigh the wagons.

.

Regardless of type, there was always a speed limit for traffic using the weighbridge eg 4mph.

[The Johnster]

Yes, I remember the interlaced track types and could never figure out how the 'non-weighing' set of rails was supported when the bridge was 'live'.  Some collieries, ISTR Merthyr Vale, had the bridge on it's own dedicated short loop, which is a variation on the interlacing idea.  The only other place I can remember besides Nantgarw Coke Ovens with a locking bar arrangement was Hafodyrynys, like the Nantgarw complex a modern investment with some rather groovy brutaliste neuveaux Dan Dare Spaceport concrete buildings which most people thought were an appalling eyesore (and these were people used to the visual blight of collieries); of course, I rather liked them...

 

The upcoming purchase of a 'proper' rail weighbridge next week from Cambrian/Coopercraft has focussed my mind on the problem at Cwmdimbath, and my purported modern locking-bar type is probably unlikely and would ideally need a modernist sort of building to go with it.  My backstory is that this colliery's processing buildings were rebuilt after a seam of very high quality steam coal was opened up during the war, explaining the corrugated asbestos that is the Walther's Diamond Coal Tippler building, but I can't see the older weighbridge having been replaced.

 

I'm considering another rethink of the colliery, as the pithead buildings are not as visually effective as I'd like, and the headframe needs from an aesthetic pov to be turned to be in side-on profile.  This means it could move a hundred yards or so south (releasing space for the under-construction pithead baths/canteen building and the modern signing-on/locker building, which are a bit cramped in their current location), with consequences for the railway yard.  The intention would be to have the weighbridge served by a loop arrangement so that it can be shunted from either end; interlacing would be difficult and in any case is not suitable for the Coopercraft bridge plate.  Nothing is decided yet, this is all at the 'chucking ideas around in my head' stage.  If anything actually happens, I'll mention it on the layout thread.

 

I rather like the existing Will's weighbridge office building, and might retain it, using the rather small (not that the Will's is palatial) Coopercraft building elsewhere. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by The Johnster

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

6 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Yes, I remember the interlaced track types and could never figure out how the 'non-weighing' set of rails was supported when the bridge was 'live'. 

I would imagine a couple of fixed beams across the top of the weighbridge pit each carrying a fixed rail, and the weighbridge mechanism underneath, with vertical upstands supporting the moving rails of the weighbridge.

 

 

[The Johnster]

Seems likely, but I would worry about wagons being weighed 'bottoming out' on the non-weighing rails.  Probably not really a worry, the bridges only dropped about 3" under load.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

In respect of underside clearance on wagons in coal traffic, by C20th the RCH design standards probably took care of that. What with the railways starting in the coalfields, I imagine there would be a significant knowledge base that had 'compiled' such operational requirements before the RCH was instituted.

[CKPR]

On 18/10/2023 at 11:46, Steamport Southport said:

Someone used to do an etched version of the weighbridge. Can't remember who though....

 

 

 

 

The etched weighbridge produced by Roger Smith is still available http://www.rogersmithmodelrailways.com/4mm_scale_oo_6.html