Elsbridge - Winter 1949 (5ft x 1ft “Modular” Layout)

[TrainMan2001]

Hello all,

I've been thinking about building a little diorama in N Gauge for some time, and ultimately decided to do a level crossing and signal box in winter. I have about 16in x 10in of space in the box I've chosen, so it won't be powered. 

 

The idea is that it'll be a steam era double track gated level crossing, just beyond a station that has a small yard (shown in the poorly scaled drawing below). I've studied some level crossing photos, and so far I've been able to work out that there are typically signal boxes near level crossings, so I plan to include one, as well as a small hut. 

 

 

I also have a few questions. I've noticed that some level crossings have signals near them, so I've looked at the Ratio Signal kits, but I was wondering which type would be correct, or if the diorama would be too small for a signal to be included on it? Here are the signal types I have looked at:

- 262 is a junction or bracket signal (home or distant - lower quadrant)

- 270 is a single post signal (home or distant - upper quadrant)

- 260 is a single post signal (home or distant - lower quadrant)

 

Other than that, I'm also planning on including lineside fencing and telegraph poles, because I'd assume that signal boxes would receive messages from those. I think that would help the scene look better, unless it would make it look to busy?

 

Thanks for any advice that you can give! So far I've ordered the signal box + interior and the Level Crossing itself, so I should be able to get started soon.

Edited December 14, 2023 by TrainMan2001

[Paul H Vigor]

13 minutes ago, TrainMan2001 said:

Hello all,

I've been thinking about building a little diorama in N Gauge for some time, and ultimately decided to do a level crossing and signal box in winter. I have about 16in x 10in of space in the box I've chosen, so it won't be powered. 

 

The idea is that it'll be a steam era double track gated level crossing, just beyond a station that has a small yard (shown in the poorly scaled drawing below). I've studied some level crossing photos, and so far I've been able to work out that there are typically signal boxes near level crossings, so I plan to include one, as well as a small hut. 

 

 

I also have a few questions. I've noticed that some level crossings have signals near them, so I've looked at the Ratio Signal kits, but I was wondering which type would be correct, or if the diorama would be too small for a signal to be included on it? Here are the signal types I have looked at:

- 262 is a junction or bracket signal (home or distant - lower quadrant)

- 270 is a single post signal (home or distant - upper quadrant)

- 260 is a single post signal (home or distant - lower quadrant)

 

Other than that, I'm also planning on including lineside fencing and telegraph poles, because I'd assume that signal boxes would receive messages from those. I think that would help the scene look better, unless it would make it look to busy?

 

Thanks for any advice that you can give! So far I've ordered the signal box + interior and the Level Crossing itself, so I should be able to get started soon.

If the signal box is controlling the crossing, you may want to move the box  closer. You might find a photo of a steam-age box and crossing that you like and recreate it as a model?

[Paul H Vigor]

1 hour ago, Paul H Vigor said:

If the signal box is controlling the crossing, you may want to move the box  closer. You might find a photo of a steam-age box and crossing that you like and recreate it as a model?

I would move the box closer to the crossing and relocate the hut to the otherside of the box. Don't forget, the signalman may operate the the crossing gates with a wheel located within the box. Signalman would require good view of passing road traffic.

 

Perhaps add a footbridge?

https://www.francisfrith.com/burgess-hill/burgess-hill-keymer-crossing-1966_b284128x

Edited October 22, 2023 by Paul H Vigor
to add information

[TrainMan2001]

1 minute ago, Paul H Vigor said:

I would move the box closer to the crossing and relocate the hut to the otherside of the box. Don't forget, the signalman may operate the the crossing gates with a wheel located within the box. Signalman would require good view of passing road traffic.

Thanks! I thought that might be the case. I'll be able to adjust the plan for a while, since I'm still waiting for the signal box and crossing to arrive from the U.K.

[Michael Hodgson]

There needs* to be a stop signal (type 370 above) both sides of the level crossing at Danger to protect it when the gates are open to road traffic.  That for the outer track might be at or near the platform end.  There would be another such signal prtoecting the points into the yard.  Type 260 would be present in both directions, but off-scene.  Type 262 is for a junction, which does not apply here.  It would be quite unusual not to have a (trailing) crossover between the two main running lines at such a station.

 

But I assume your diorama is only  the bit inside that bold rectangle, so the station layout itself is irrelevant?  If so, you may not need any signals, as it is possible that both signals protecting the crossing would be outside that rectangle.

 

* Not strictly a requirement, but almost universal in practice.  In theory it would also be permissible for a red target and lamp on the gates themselves to act as the stop signal instead, but in practice this would be uncceptable here because the curve limits visibility.

 

As regards gatewheel operation, in most cases a gatewheel would operate four gates half the width of the road because if full width gates were provided would foul each other if they are both swung them at the same time.  If somebody goes out to push the gates by hand (also very common) there would usually be two full width gates, which is not a problem as he only does one gate at a time.

[TrainMan2001]

6 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

There needs* to be a stop signal (type 370 above) both sides of the level crossing at Danger to protect it when the gates are open to road traffic.  That for the outer track might be at or near the platform end.  There would be another such signal prtoecting the points into the yard.  Type 260 would be present in both directions, but off-scene.  Type 262 is for a junction, which does not apply here.  It would be quite unusual not to have a (trailing) crossover between the two main running lines at such a station.

 

But I assume your diorama is only  the bit inside that bold rectangle, so the station layout itself is irrelevant?  If so, you may not need any signals, as it is possible that both signals protecting the crossing would be outside that rectangle.

Thanks for your help with the signals! I've tried to re-draw the plan to hopefully better show the crossings relation to the station. You are correct that the rectangle shows what would be on the diorama. My idea was that the station would be just off scene before the level crossing, presumably with the signal box between the two to control the crossing and the points in the small yard. Here are two variants of the scene with the change in signal box position, showing one with the entrance to the yard being just on-scene, and one with it being off-scene (I don't have track for the diorama yet, so I could adapt to either plan easily).

 

As far as the signal itself is concerned, I thought it would be nice to include on-scene as another point of interest (and also to help suggest that the crossing is just outside of a station), although if it would still make more sense to be off-scene, that is fine.

 

Also, the level crossing will be the Ratio one with gates, and I believe it is the type with 4 half gates.

Thanks again for your help! I hope this helps explain what I had in mind a bit better.

 

 

[Dunalastair]

The Ratio gates look the part, but to state the obvious, those steep ramps on either side, suited to a 'flat world' layout, would probably look out of place on a diorama. Indeed, longer road vehicles might well ground on a change of level like that. Blending the road surface levels should look much more convincing.

 

As previously suggested, finding an appropriate prototype image and starting from that should help, in conjunction perhaps with a large scale map from NLS. This example from Brigg might serve as an example - note the home signal on the opposite side of the crossing from the station.

 

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/nostalgia/railway-worker-who-saved-brigg-1780698

[MyRule1]

@TrainMan2001 has already said that they have looked at a number of photographs and the picture of Brigg supplied by @Dunalastair fits the bill exactly, so we should turn to the other parts of the original question and other issues. These are related to the parts of the diorama and the fact it is set in "winter".

 

But let's return to the signal box as the geographic location of the diorama will be set by which signal box you have chosen. Presuming it is a Ratio kit, they make two, GWR and Midland. In general if you have chosen the GWR you will need lower quadrant signals and for the Midland they would be upper quadrant.

 

As to Winter - own would you like it depicted? The common feature in the UK is that most trees, except conifers loose their leaves in winter. The grass is not so green and there are no flowers. You also have the spaces  in the diorama that are not railway. If these are going to be "the country" then cultivated fields might be just ploughed land. Then we come to the weather. This varies if you are modelling the GWR in Cornwall then it might need no particular attention but the Midland in Cumbria and the GWR in Wales might have significant snowfall.  Rather than spend time in this post about this perhaps you would address these points in a reply and you could then be given the appropriate advice.

 

My next project will be a very similar one to yours in that it will be a level crossing diorama but in OO gauge. It will be set at a very specific time and location. I am lucky in that, although the site has  changed I have pictures of the location and for those elements that have not changed I can drive there, take photo's and get home in under an hour.

 

 

[Michael Hodgson]

The two later track layouts now show a facing point into a loop or bay platform at the station.  So you would want a signal like 262 in this case as the signal protecting the crossing also protects a junction.  However the bracket with a lower arm would be to the left of the post, not the right, as the loop is the lower speed line.

 

The point seen in the photo of Brigg is on the opposite line, so the tracks there are converging not diverging.  We don't see a signal in that direction, because there would be a simple stop signal for each of those lines, sufficiently short of the points that a train standing at them would not be so close to the adjacent track that it would be fouled by a train in the next track.

 

Brigg signalbox today looks a little different, the line now being freight only.  The locking room windows have been boarded up, the crossing now has barriers and wig-wags and the semaphores have gone - but they have recently repainted it. 

[TrainMan2001]

4 hours ago, MyRule1 said:

@TrainMan2001 has already said that they have looked at a number of photographs and the picture of Brigg supplied by @Dunalastair fits the bill exactly, so we should turn to the other parts of the original question and other issues. These are related to the parts of the diorama and the fact it is set in "winter".

 

But let's return to the signal box as the geographic location of the diorama will be set by which signal box you have chosen. Presuming it is a Ratio kit, they make two, GWR and Midland. In general if you have chosen the GWR you will need lower quadrant signals and for the Midland they would be upper quadrant.

 

As to Winter - own would you like it depicted? The common feature in the UK is that most trees, except conifers loose their leaves in winter. The grass is not so green and there are no flowers. You also have the spaces  in the diorama that are not railway. If these are going to be "the country" then cultivated fields might be just ploughed land. Then we come to the weather. This varies if you are modelling the GWR in Cornwall then it might need no particular attention but the Midland in Cumbria and the GWR in Wales might have significant snowfall.  Rather than spend time in this post about this perhaps you would address these points in a reply and you could then be given the appropriate advice.

 

 

Hello, thanks for the reply! As far as where the diorama is set, it'll be a bit ambiguous as these form my motive power:

 

I also have Dapol's new release of Stepney on pre-order, as well as Rapido's SECR Wagons.

 

Other than that, I currently have some BR wagons that I run behind Thomas and Percy, SECR Birdcage Coaches for the C Class, and the Bluebell's 6-wheel milk tank.

 

The signal box is the Peco kit, which I'll add the Ratio interior to, and I'll plan on painting the signal box during assembly, rather than leaving it unpainted.

As far as coloring goes, it looks like the Bluebell has options for either Yellow(ish) w/ Green Trim or White/Cream with Dark Red Trim.

 

Looking at various photos of the Bluebell in winter, I'm thinking of doing snow that mostly covers the ground, but has a few areas where taller grass/weeds poke through the snow.

 

Other than that, I'm not really worried about depicting a particular prototype exactly; I'm mostly trying to see what I can do with scenery and a couple buildings.

[TrainMan2001]

Hello all,

The signal box kit and crossing arrived, and it looks like I should have plenty of room to work with for the diorama. The picture shows the box it'll be made in, without any work done on it yet (note: the Metcalfe signal box is standing in for the Peco one). 

 

I have also begun work on the Peco signal box. So far I've put the brick base together, and gotten the walls, doors, and windows together and primed for painting. I'm planning on painting it in maroon & cream, with white window frames.

 

Now as far as the track plan goes, I like the idea of doing this one, that has the points as part of the scene:

 

@Michael Hodgson, I believe you mentioned that in this case, I would want a signal like 262. Assuming I need one of those and 1or 2 of signal 270 (depending on if they'd be placed within the diorama space), would you know roughly what the placements of such signals would be? Thanks for your help.

 

That's all for now, but I am looking forward to working on it more!

Edited October 31, 2023 by TrainMan2001

[Michael Hodgson]

Would be a few yards before the crossing gates, and therefore possibly off-scene.

[TrainMan2001]

Sorry I haven't posted for a while, I've been a bit busy, and I've also been thinking a lot.

 

A couple of months back, NHY 581 posted about some bed trays he purchased from Ikea that could potentially be used to make a layout. The post ended up being inspiring, because I realized that I could create a layout that would be easily transportable, be decently sized (for N Gauge, at least), but also not take up a lot of space overall.

 

 

After finding out they're available in the States as well, I bought 3. This will allow me to create a layout that is roughly 12 inches × 62 inches (or 300mm × 1587mm).

 

As far as the layout plan goes, I've always liked the idea of doing an interpretation of Elsbridge Station based on the Rev. Awdry's notes. The idea is that I'll be able to make a layout that I can run Thomas, Percy and Toby on, but hopefully will look realistic enough that I could swap them out for real engines.

 

 

 

As far as the track layout goes, it'll be an amalgamation of the illustrations and Awdry's own plan for an intended layout. I've also looked at various station layouts on disusedstations.co.uk and model layout plans for further inspiration.

 

 

Above is a look at what I've come up with. Since Elsbridge is on a branch line, the track will enter and leave the layout as a single track line. Since Awdry placed the goods shed and dairy close to the river (and I kept that, though the river will be off scene), I've added a level crossing just before the station (left side). Points allow for the station itself to have two lines, which is how it has been illustrated in every book. Behind the station would be Station Rd, where I'm planning on making low relief buildings depicting shops, pubs, hotel, etc. To the right of the station would be the yard. The track curves here, and I put a double slip in to bring the station lines back to the main, and also to allow a way into the dairy sidings without putting points in an awkward place on the boards. The second line continues as a heads headshunt and entrance to the goods shed, similar to Awdry's plan, though the headshunt doesn't extend onto the bridge. At the moment, I have excluded the siding with the coal staithes, but I'm sure I could find a place for it. The single line would finally leave the scene towards the bridge.

 

Over the coming weeks, I'm planning to prepare the boards for track laying, though I'm not planning to order the track (Peco Code 55) until after the New Year. I recognize the significant change in scale that this project will be, so the only deadline I'm planning on setting for myself for now is to get the track laid and wired by Summer.

 

In my next post, I'll probably show what I've done with the Signal Box kit so far, and my plans for it going forward. Thanks for reading!

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by TrainMan2001
Picture was sideways.

[47606odin]

Well, having just purchased a couple of the railway series locos in OO for a project, it’ll be good to see your interpretation of a more realistic version of the railway. It’s my intention to make my locos more of a realistic version of the railway locos, keeping their faces, but less toylike hopefully. 
 

I shall be following your progress

 

[TrainMan2001]

On 11/12/2023 at 02:24, 47606odin said:

Well, having just purchased a couple of the railway series locos in OO for a project, it’ll be good to see your interpretation of a more realistic version of the railway. It’s my intention to make my locos more of a realistic version of the railway locos, keeping their faces, but less toylike hopefully. 
 

I shall be following your progress

 

Sorry for the late reply, I've been a bit busy. Which locos are you making? Even though this layout is based on the Railway Series, my locos will be Bachmann N Gauge locos modified to look more like they did in the Model Series, rather than the CGI Series. I have Thomas done so far (though I plan to redo his face eventually). If anyone would like me to go more in-depth about what I did to him, just let me know.

 

As far as rolling stock goes, I'm planning to make bogie versions of Annie & Clarabel, then have some NW-lettered wagons mixed with real wagons.

______________

 

I also ought to update you everyone about the signal box. I got the brick part built, and I tried to do a wash to make the mortar lines grey. However, I don't think it looks good from a distance, as the mortar lines overpower the color of the brickwork.

As such, instead of plastic brickwork, I'm planning to go with printed card/paper brickwork instead. I have some old Metcalfe kits, and I think the overall brick effect on them looks better (at least in N Gauge). I do plan on mostly scratchbuilding my own structures, rather than using Metcalfe ones, though.

[47606odin]

Currently on their way is a Percy, I originally bought one back in the 1980’s, and a Henry. Both Hornby. I will look at a Thomas at a later date and will obtain a pair of ex LMS non corridor coaches for Annie and Clarabel, as apparently that’s what the coaches were based on originally before the TV series came out in the books. It always niggled me that the tv series used 4 wheel coaches that Hornby also used when the books clearly showed them as bogie coaches