What's something that a modeller should only buy new and never buy used?

[OnTheBranchline]

This is meant as a serious advice thread. 
 

second hand and or used - just to be clear.

Edited October 24, 2023 by OnTheBranchline

[Richard_A]

Glue

[roythebus1]

Paint.

[RexAshton]

Wood for baseboards and points. Sometimes used track can be used but pointwork often goes out of shape when it's lifted.

 

[Mike Buckner]

Many forms of electrical equipment - especially if they plug into the mains

[ITG]

Having returned to the hobby some 5 years ago, and after doing research both in this forum and at exhibitions and retailers, I opted to only ever buy new track, but this was after some blind buying where I soon realised I’d bought secondhand rubbish.

On the other hand, I’ve never bought a new loco or item of rolling stock, and have what I’d describe as a 90% success rate. The 10% failure rate I can live with, given the significant savings made versus buying new.

Ian

edit - ps. Also only buy new electrical equipment which connects directly to mains.

Edited October 23, 2023 by ITG
Added PS

[Nearholmer]

It’s perfectly possible to build a layout using only consumables such as paint, glue and solder from new, as multiple collectors of old models routinely demonstrate. Two of my favourites are a 1960ish Minories, built entirely using contemporary material, and a 1930/40s Leeds Model Company layout, ditto, and in both cases that extends to using NOS brick paper!

 

Up to a point, and maybe excluding some 1950s fibre-based stuff and HD two-rail, where the plastic embrittles, It seems that the more modern the track, the less well it survives attempts to re-use it, especially if glued ballast has been used.

 

Regarding mains kit: if you know what you’re doing, even old mains kit can be re-used, but you really do have to know your onions. I sometimes use a 1950s tapped-transformer controller, but it’s been carefully restored, in one or two respects modified, and tested.

[33C]

Tools for fine work, jewellers screw drivers, tweezers, metal rulers, files and set squares. Buy quality and buy once.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Definitely agree with the points and electrical items (point motors in particular). I have tried to reuse these in the past, but the results were not hugely successful. Well made baseboards can be reused, but in my experience only plywood boards stand up to this.

[The Johnster]

37 minutes ago, 33C said:

Tools for fine work, jewellers screw drivers, tweezers, metal rulers, files and set squares. Buy quality and buy once.

 

I have three sets of tools, none a complete range.   First, the 'precious tools', best quality I can afford and lovingly cared for.  Some of these are a pleasure to own in their own right apart from their usefulness.  I have a year-old Xuron rail cutter that is a precious tool.  You can borrow the precious tools, but I have to accompany them and supervise on expenses; they do not leave my posession.  Then, there are the 'tools', some of which are middling quality and some of which are worn but still useful ex-precious tools.  I have a 6-year-old Xuron rail cutter that is a tool.  You can borrow them but if I don't get them back in good order with an allowance for fair wear and tear I'll never lend you anything again.  Thirdly, there are the 'carp tools', bought in pound shops and such.  You can borrow these and I don't care if you mangle them or fail to return them, they are disposable items.  I have a cheapo pair of wire cutters that won't go through code 100 rail and is used for cutting plastic rod, which is a carp tool.

 

The carp tools are arguably the most useful, but not for their intended purposes.  Cheapo screwdrivers used as levers, poundland chisels to open paint tins, plastic clamps to hold things while the glue goes off, and the standard thing, in almost daily use, poundland superglue.  This stuff is brilliant for holding things together that are a) not load bearing and b) might have to come apart one day, e.g. loco bodies attached to altered or different chassis that can't be screwed any more.  The carp glue will keep the bodyshell in position but when you want to get inside to lube or whatever, it will break off with no damage to either component.  Bit of chipping about with poundland screwdrivers and some emery will restore the surface, and you can re-glue when you put the top back on.  I'm not recommending this, it's bodgery, but it's got me out of a hole more than once...

 

Another useful item of this sort is Poundland kiddies stiff nylon paintbrushes, come in a set with some watercolours in plastic tubes for, um, a pound.  About as useful as an ice cube on the Titanic, in horrible colourerd plastic, and with nylon bristles that would make a mess of any paint job, but perfect for sweeping stray ballast and other debris out of your flangeways and stock/closure rail interfaces.  The stiff bristles spring the crud out of the game, simples.

 

Where precision is required, it's the precious tools every time, for normal bodging about it's the tool, to prolong the life of the precious tools, and the carp tools are used as I have described.

 

 

[Colin_McLeod]

Well this thread is not going to help my ebay sales. 😥

[The Johnster]

It will if you have locos or rolling stock in good condition at reasonable prices; track, controllers, Dapol signals, and point motors perhaps not so much...

 

I've never paid full price for a loco, they're all 2h or discounted new, and very rarely payed full whack for rolling stock.  Like ITG upthread 5, I reckon 90% success with 2h/unused 'new' old stock, and about the same with brand new items.  I'm happy to buy 2h if the price is reasonable and the item in good nick, but I've been around the block a few times and know some of the wrinkles to look out for, and would not recommend the bay to newbies who may be more easily caught out.

 

I wouldn't buy used track but have done ok with old stock unused Peco turnouts.  I'd agree with the recommendation to avoid anything that might ever get a sniff of mains power, and also recommend avoiding anything that has old solder on it; track, turnouts, point motors, loco motors, &c.  I also make it a rule to not buy any RTR locos or stock on the Bay unless they have NEM pockets, a simple guide to identifying relatively recently produced models.  For example, very early Bachmann 57xx, same as Replica and Mainline model, prone to same reliabiliy issues, but easily identifiable with Mainline-profile tension lock couplings and no lamp irons.  '2nd generation' Bachmann, retains split-chassis collection and problems but has proper motor with worm/idler gear drive, better, but also shown by the Mainline-profile couplings.  Subseqent toolings, all good models, have NEM pockets.

 

If you are buying a lot of stuff 2h, then you'll probably buy a dog that wasn't worth the asking price sooner or later, that's life.  But my experience with locos suggests that there are always brand new dogs as well, and some of them don't show up their canine tendencies until after the warranty has expired!

Edited October 23, 2023 by The Johnster

[dasatcopthorne]

4 hours ago, rka said:

Glue

Damb. You beat me to it.

[andyman7]

5 hours ago, rka said:

Glue

 

Whilst I don't deliberately buy secondhand glue, I've a whole stash tubes of Balsa cement, Poly cement and a few others that have turned up in used kits or auction lots I've acquired. I don't think I've actually paid for either of those in years... 

 

5 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

Paint.

 

Given the various changes in the allowable ingredients in paint, I'm more than happy to take on any used but useable old pots of enamel paint, the consistency and covering power of which can often be superior to new. 

 

5 hours ago, RexAshton said:

Wood for baseboards and points. Sometimes used track can be used but pointwork often goes out of shape when it's lifted.

 

 

I've never broken up a layout without recovering decent timbers, and points that can be lifted without damage. 

 

4 hours ago, Mike Buckner said:

Many forms of electrical equipment - especially if they plug into the mains

 

Whilst there's plenty of obsolete electrics I'll leave alone there are many items worth buying secondhand. Of the four Gaugemaster controllers in use in this house, two came secondhand.

 

4 hours ago, ITG said:

Having returned to the hobby some 5 years ago, and after doing research both in this forum and at exhibitions and retailers, I opted to only ever buy new track, but this was after some blind buying where I soon realised I’d bought secondhand rubbish.

On the other hand, I’ve never bought a new loco or item of rolling stock, and have what I’d describe as a 90% success rate. The 10% failure rate I can live with, given the significant savings made versus buying new.

Ian

edit - ps. Also only buy new electrical equipment which connects directly to mains.

 

I've acquired loads of track 'secondhand', but always good items. The key is to leave the rubbish behind and take on only the good stuff.

 

2 hours ago, 33C said:

Tools for fine work, jewellers screw drivers, tweezers, metal rulers, files and set squares. Buy quality and buy once.

 

Many times in auction lots or even secondhand kits I've found useful tools. 

Basically I seem to have broken every rule going 🙂

Edited October 23, 2023 by andyman7

[Pete the Elaner]

5 hours ago, RexAshton said:

Wood for baseboards and points. Sometimes used track can be used but pointwork often goes out of shape when it's lifted.

 

 

I wish everybody at the club acknowledged that.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Etched kits. Well, with a caveat.

 

If still in the box and "untouched" then it is a reasonable risk. But those that have been "started"may be missing bits and pieces, while some parts may be difficult to identify if removed from the fret. Of course, if you are unscrupulous you can contact the kit producer and claim that they were missing from your kit, which you had bought some years ago and just got around to starting.

[melmoth]

 Jaffa Cakes!

 

16 hours ago, OnTheBranchline said:

This is meant as a serious advice thread. 

 

Oh.

 

[Bucoops]

17 hours ago, OnTheBranchline said:

This is meant as a serious advice thread. 

 

Shame. 🤡

 

Used is very different to second hand. Plenty of second hand stuff which would be perfectly fine that wouldn't be if used - e.g. solder.

 

 

[Mallard60022]

Blades. (Not Sheffield United; they are well used).

Phil

[OnTheBranchline]

2 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Shame. 🤡

 

Used is very different to second hand. Plenty of second hand stuff which would be perfectly fine that wouldn't be if used - e.g. solder.

 

 

Isn’t second hand and used the same thing?

[Mallard60022]

Just now, OnTheBranchline said:

Isn’t second hand and used the same thing?

 

Just now, OnTheBranchline said:

Isn’t second hand and used the same thing?

 

Just now, OnTheBranchline said:

Isn’t second hand and used the same thing?

Second hand infers a previous owner. Used might be multiple previous owners?

Phil 

[OnTheBranchline]

2 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

 

 

Second hand infers a previous owner. Used might be multiple previous owners?

Phil 

Oh I meant second hand as well.

[Bucoops]

29 minutes ago, OnTheBranchline said:

Isn’t second hand and used the same thing?

 

I would say no. To use my own example, I have a reel of solder next to me. If I sold it, it would be second hand. I also have some blobs of solder lying around from cleaning tips etc - If I tried to sell those, they would be used.

[BachelorBoy]

Presumably if you bought a loco from Hornby that had been used on a demo layout at the Hornby Visitor Centre, it would be used but not second-hand. 

 

[The Johnster]

Used; what it says on the tin, something that has been used and is now for sale. 
 

Second-hand; something that has been owned by somebody else and is now for sale.  It may not have ever been used. 
 

Pre-owned, pre-loved, collectors item or any similar description; one of the above for sale by a mendacious chiseller.