The hard white underbelly of the Jinty

[Nick Lawson]

(I considered filing this in the pugbash thread, but as my aim was to make a Jinty look more like a Jinty rather than create a Jintystein, I didn't think it met the standard of creativity).

 

As a side project, I am fixing up an early Hornby Jinty, which was in pieces. While removing the remains of the broken front steps I gazed once too often on the unsightly blanking in the body work where there ought to be the boiler bottom and daylight. This particular model has a large screw through  one side of this blanking to secure the body to a block, itself screwed onto the top of the chassis.

 

This hole invited exploration with a piercing saw blade, scalpel, files etc. The blanking was removed. A fresh hole in the other side and that was also removed. Daylight!

 

I set out to make a boiler bottom.

 

I had saved an offcut of plastic (polypropylene?) water pipe thoughtfully left for me under the floorboards by a plumber. At a smidge under 20mm diameter, this is larger than the Jinty boiler; but only a small arc was needed so the difference in radius is inconspicuous. I cut a larger than necessary arc from the pipe and then filed it down gradually to fit.

 

The tank fronts were looking ridiculously wide as they now showed the thickness of the cut away body, so I trimmed them back carefully. They are still way wider than prototype but good enough. This trimming also allowed me to slide my new boiler bottom in from behind. I used some contact adhesive to fasten it in place.

 

I had started by cutting a decent length of pipe so I had something to hold onto, but having filed the correct arc I then cut it to length. Annoyingly I didn't check the appearance from all angles and I found I had cut the length too short, so there was a visible gap when seen diagonally. I glued back the bit I had just removed.  Flat plastikard then formed the rear of the smokebox bottom.

 

Et voila, a white underbelly.

 

 

In order to fit the improved body I then needed to unscrew the mounting block from the top of the chassis. This of course also completed the removal of the means of fastening the body to the chassis.

 

I had a packet of long 10BA screws and nuts from the late, lamented "Eileen". The underneath of the chassis had a suitably positioned threaded hole, (not sure what for),  so I drilled this right through to the top and then drilled a countersink to hide the head - even though this is much less conspicuous than the screw heads holding the pick-up plate.

 

 

 

I then glued a block of plastic under the chimney for this screw to engage with.

 

 

That's it for now. I will spray the white stuff with black primer and then see whether I think the visible join needs fairing in or just settle for that.

 

These pictures have reminded me that I still have more to do reducing the wheel flanges, so that is probably the next thing.

 

[brossard]

Brassmasters do a nice detailing kit for the Jinty.

 

https://www.brassmasters.co.uk/bachmann_jinty.htm

 

Intended for the Bachmann but I don't see why it can't also be used for Hornby.

 

If you want go even further install Markits wheels.

 

This may be beyond your scope and budget - just saying.

 

John

 

[Nick Lawson]

@brossard Thanks for the suggestions John.

 

I should explain that I am slowly building an EM Gauge layout with a through traversing fiddleyard. I discovered by accident that my OO Gauge Wrenn N2 has such fat wheels it will sit on EM Gauge track! Obviously it won't go through EM pointwork, but there is none of that in my fiddleyard. I thought it would be fun to keep this relic of my childhood (I see from the pricetag that I paid £7.50 of real saved pocket money to buy it new in a sale). It doesn't belong in my layout, but could work as an off-stage yard shunter to e.g. take a brakevan off the back of a rake and move it down the other end, ready to run a return service.

 

Then I looked at the big, ugly wheels on this Jinty and wondered if it too would sit on EM track. It does just! I need to ease some of the wheels out a bit, but I think I have another future yard shunter. So, no, I'm not rewheeling this one.

 

I do also have another Jinty which I did rewheel with Markits. I'm considering getting some bushes and EM axles for that one, although Jinties hadn't quite come into being in my time period.

 

For completeness there is a third Jinty in pieces, which I bought off another lad for 6/- in 1969.

 

Given that none of these will make it onto the layout proper, they are not going to get an expensive makeover.

 

@33C I have also been inspired by your Triang Princess thread. When I saw your A6, I thought ooh! I've got a princess chassis in the loft! One day, with smaller wheels,  there may even be an A7 in my fiddleyard! But that's a long way off.

 

 

 

[brossard]

OK Nick, happy modelling.

 

I will backtrack a bit on what I said, in case someone reading this may want to use Brassmasters kit for their Hornby Jinty.  It's really a note of caution.  Hornby's products from that period were very often 4mm shorter than they should have been.  I know from my own experience that the tender drive Black 5, Stanier coaches and the 6 wheeled sausage and milk vans were all 4mm short.  I can't speak to the Jinty but before spending money on the kit make some careful measurements, particularly of the wheelbase.

 

John

[41516]

On my rather stalled GBL body based Jinty builds (excuse the dust), I've added the tank balancing pipe to help provide a bit of something  between the tanks. Much better than the solid 'wall' between the sides.

 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

15 hours ago, brossard said:

...make some careful measurements, particularly of the wheelbase.

It's wrong. Triang used 31+33mm for this model, and then applied it 'democratically' on every 0-6-0T they and the successor businesses designed, until the fairly recent advent of the Hornby J50 which is accurate for prototype wheelbase. This pursuit of inaccuracy over what must be circa 50 years perhaps deserves wooden spoon recognition from those organisations that enjoy celebrating achievement?

 

 

[brossard]

3 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

It's wrong. Triang used 31+33mm for this model, and then applied it 'democratically' on every 0-6-0T they and the successor businesses designed, until the fairly recent advent of the Hornby J50 which is accurate for prototype wheelbase. This pursuit of inaccuracy over what must be circa 50 years perhaps deserves wooden spoon recognition from those organisations that enjoy celebrating achievement?

 

 

 

Perhaps a rubber chicken on a plinth.

 

Not all bad though.  I had the later Black5 with sound on board (a proper decoder from Loksound) and it was hands down one of the best locos I ever had.

 

John

[cypherman]

Hi all,

This is one of my 2 rather old modified Jinty's. Think I did them in the mid 1970s. I still have them both...... 😄

[Steamport Southport]

One of the problems with the old Jinty (pre mid 1970s model*) was it was a bit of a mishmash between MR and LMS versions. Most noticeable in the cab and smokebox areas. Look at photos of the rebuilt MR 7200 series locomotives compared to the LMS built ones.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midland_Railway_2441_Class

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Fowler_Class_3F

 

 

I certainly wouldn't be wasting good money on one. The GBL copy of the Bachmann model is one of their better efforts. I plan on putting a couple of those on Comet or High Level chassis. Undo a few screws, sling the chassis and you've virtually got a Bachmann body!

 

 

*Far better model apart from some slight discrepancies in the wheelbase. Totally eclipsed by the Bachmann model though.

 

 

 

Jason

[Nick Lawson]

Now in black:

 

 

Inspired by a bit of low morning sun through the window, I thought "photoshoot time", forgetting that of course it would show up every imperfection even better than usual.

 

I had bought a spray can allegedly of Black, Matt Finish to save daubing with a brush. This product, "Rustoleum Universal Advanced Formula All Surface Paint" turned out not to be my idea of matt.  Although, for future reference, if one wants to match the slightly shiny plastic finish of an old black loco as-is, it may be a useful product. As you can see, I have daubed real matt over the top, but halfheartedly. I haven't time to finish this off properly at the moment, so back in the box it goes.

 

In the meantime, I have replaced the missing front steps, by grafting on the cab steps salvaged from another, very badly damaged, Jinty body. The nearside is not too bad, but the off-side is a bit ... off. Apart from that the tell-tale is that the cab steps have some rivet heads while the front steps don't.

[cypherman]

For the cab steps why do you not just use a plasticine mould made by pressing in the Jinty step and filling it in with resin. Paul the Restorer on his Youtube channel has done this several times to make missing parts for his models. 

[Compound2632]

On 26/10/2023 at 16:17, brossard said:

Brassmasters do a nice detailing kit for the Jinty.

 

https://www.brassmasters.co.uk/bachmann_jinty.htm

 

Intended for the Bachmann but I don't see why it can't also be used for Hornby.

 

It would do for the newer (1980s) Hornby model, which is reasonably to scale, but the 1960s Triang model is just a bit too much dimensionally-compromised - except in one respect, the front splashers. Because Triang consistently mounted bodies 2 mm too high, the splasher didn't need to be made over-scale to clear over-scale flanges, as on the Hornby and Bachmann models. This was done to allow enough clearance for bogie swing on outside-cylindered engines. These models were not only designed to go round first radius curves but also to cope with dramatic changes of gradient!

 

47606 was my first engine, back in 1972. I still have it, somewhere!

Edited November 28, 2023 by Compound2632

[brossard]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

It would do for the newer (1980s) Hornby model, which is reasonably to scale, but the 1960s Triang model is just a bit too much dimensionally-compromised - except in one respect, the front splashers. Because Triang consistently mounted bodies 2 mm too high, the splasher didn't need to be made over-scale to clear over-scale flanges, as on the Hornby and Bachmann models. This was done to allow enough clearance for bogie swing on outside-cylindered engines. These models were not only designed to go round first radius curves but also to cope with dramatic changes of gradient!

 

47606 was my first engine, back in 1972. I still have it, somewhere!

 

I made a caveat in my 26 Oct post about early Hornby Jintys being dimensionally inaccurate.  I just took a look at what I assume to be Hornby's latest Jinty.  It is still crude IMO and anyone wanting a Jinty is far better off with the Bachmann.

 

John

Edited November 28, 2023 by brossard

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, brossard said:

I made a caveat in my 26 Oct post about early Hornby Jintys being dimensionally inaccurate. 

 

So I now see you did; my apologies. But I was principally out to sing the praises of the front splashers.

[Compound2632]

The Triang wheelbase is 1 3/16" + 1 5/16", 2 1/2" overall.

[Buhar]

6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

The Triang wheelbase is 1 3/16" + 1 5/16", 2 1/2" overall.

Hmm - just about an eightieth of a perch or rod.  May scale better in cubits.

 

Alan

[Nick Lawson]

On 23/11/2023 at 17:10, cypherman said:

why do you not just use a plasticine mould made by pressing in the Jinty step and filling it in with resin

Resin casting is one of the many things on my things-to-try list. I had hoped, but failed, to get a slot with Graham King at Warley the other day, for a tutorial. I do have a specific Cunning Plan to try one day, so happy to hear more.

 

However in this instance I had another, badly damaged, Jinty body which I plan to replace with a J83 body I acquired decades ago; so I robbed the scrap Jinty.

[Steamport Southport]

You could use brass steps from Wizard/Mainly Trains. They do the Jinty ones.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/mt231/

 

And others.

 

Wizard/Comet steps

 

For general reference. I do know that most people probably aren't wanting to spend good money on old models as when you add all the extras up you might as well just buy a Bachmann or London Road Models one!

 

 

 

Jason

[cypherman]

9 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

You could use brass steps from Wizard/Mainly Trains. They do the Jinty ones.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/mt231/

 

And others.

 

Wizard/Comet steps

 

For general reference. I do know that most people probably aren't wanting to spend good money on old models as when you add all the extras up you might as well just buy a Bachmann or London Road Models one!

 

 

 

Jason

Hi Steamport Southport I understand where you are coming from. It would be easier for some one just buy a newer model. But where's the fun and satisfaction in that.