Smallish sub-shed near bigger shed

[TomJ]

Sorry for the confusing title - I didn’t know how phrase it better!

 
For my Minories-ish layout I’d love to add a small two road GWR and the typical coaling stage. However the set up assumes this is a secondary small city terminus away from the main station (think Birmingham Moor Street) -so assumes there is bigger station and shed not too far away. Clearly I don’t have the space to model a huge shed like Tysley or Laira!

How likely would such a scenario be? Are there any examples? Or would there be a just couple of stabling sidings - with perhaps a coaling stage?

 

Ultimately it’s my train set and rule 1 applies 

[Paul H Vigor]

9 minutes ago, TomJ said:

Sorry for the confusing title - I didn’t know how phrase it better!

 
For my Minories-ish layout I’d love to add a small two road GWR and the typical coaling stage. However the set up assumes this is a secondary small city terminus away from the main station (think Birmingham Moor Street) -so assumes there is bigger station and shed not too far away. Clearly I don’t have the space to model a huge shed like Tysley or Laira!

How likely would such a scenario be? Are there any examples? Or would there be a just couple of stabling sidings - with perhaps a coaling stage?

 

Ultimately it’s my train set and rule 1 applies 

Rule 1 = no need to ask!

[TheQ]

It wasn't originally GWR, but Ludgershall had a loco shed, water tower, coaling stage, 26 miles south of Swindon.

[Aire Head]

While not GWR on the Midland lines in Yorkshire both Ilkley and Keighley Sub-sheds were only around 10 miles away from both Manningham and Skipton sheds.

[tanatvalley]

Have a look at Penmaenpool sub shed to Machynlleth.

[Buhar]

If the stations and associated loco sheds were built by different companies it's more than feasible for them to be close to each other.  Then some sort of amalgamation or rationalisation makes one a sub-shed of the other.  If the routes or junction layouts preclude your locos being easily serviced at the main shed, there's your reason for it continuing in use.

 

Alan

[woodenhead]

The most obvious GW example that comes to mind near a terminus - Ranelagh Bridge which included a turntable.

 

https://davidheyscollection.myshopblocks.com/pages/david-heys-steam-diesel-photo-collection-96-great-way-west-1

 

 

Very compact and excuse for any type of GW loco big or small.

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

The most obvious GW example that comes to mind near a terminus - Ranelagh Bridge which included a turntable.

 

https://davidheyscollection.myshopblocks.com/pages/david-heys-steam-diesel-photo-collection-96-great-way-west-1

 

 

Very compact and excuse for any type of GW loco big or small.

Playing devils advocate, how common would classes 28xx/42xx/72xx be there? 😀

[WillCav]

What about Cheltenham Malvern Road?

 

Two road 180ft shed pre WWII with incline to a small coal stage but no turntable.

It was a Sub shed to Gloucester GW.

 

Will

[rodent279]

Another non-GW one for your delight & delectation, Leighton Buzzard was a small 2 road shed that was a sub-shed of the much larger Bletchley (1E), some 6.25 miles further north.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by rodent279

[Miss Prism]

Plymouth Docks shed and Plymouth Laira were about half-a-mile apart.

 

[The Johnster]

In general, the situation at a Minories/Moor Street inspired terminus would likely be a loco servicing siding rather than a shed.  An example would be Cardiff Bute Road, as rebuilt by the GWR 1928.  A single road kickback accessible from both platforms, room for perhaps three locos, water column and an inspection pit, cabin for crews, and that's about it! 

 

Not uncommon at termini, Ranelagh Bridge has been mentioned but there were similar setups at King's Cross, Liverpool St (not much more than Bute Road), and St.Pancras; the idea was to enable faster turnarounds of visiting locomotives.  Minories has a loco spur for this purpose as part of Cyril's original plan; train runs in, loco backs on to it from loco spur, original loco is uncoupled, brake continuity is performed, right away off-scene after a fast rush-hour turnaround, original loco backs out into spur where it can take on water and await it's next duty.  At main line termini visiting engines may have come a fair distance, so there will be coaling facilities, but most suburban jobs were coaled up with enough to last the day before leaving the shed.  Steam engines need water much more often than they need coal...

[NZRedBaron]

I seem to remember seeing a video series on YT some time this year on something similar to this concept; a tiny sub-shed that served a branch line near Kidderminster; the shed was a single road brick building with a water tower just outside the shed, and a basic platform for coaling on a siding that ran next to the shed; there was also a grounded van body acting as a tools/stores shed.

Edited October 31, 2023 by NZRedBaron

[Jeremy Cumberland]

Sheds were needed where locomotives were disposed of in the evening, stabled overnight and prepped in the morning. The usual basis for a Minories-type layout is a city terminus where commuters, shoppers and others come to the city from out of town, and later on go back home again, rather than being the starting point for trains to elsewhere. Locomotives would be shedded out of town, where the trains came from, rather than in the city. The station pilot, if there was one, was probably shedded at some other location in the city. Although small engine sheds for station pilots seem common on model railways, I can't think of any examples in real life.

 

15 hours ago, TomJ said:

Ultimately it’s my train set and rule 1 applies 

Indeed. Build a layout that looks pleasing to you. It will probably look pleasing to others, too.

[2251]

How close is close?

 

Stratford on Avon might provide a nice example of a two-road shed and on one view it is close to Tyseley. Admittedly Stratford isn't a terminus but with some re-arrangement it would work.

 

 

[Steven B]

Several locations had small sheds for the stabling of banking loco's - Ledbury and Box are two examples (although Ledbury was more of a covered coaling stage!).

 

Something similar for a Minories based layout could work - the first train of the day would need a loco stabled overnight to power the return service or help release the train loco.

 

Steven B.

[TomJ]

Thanks everyone. Some good examples. Malvern Road seems to fit the bill with it being a short distance down the line from the terminus at St James

 

Interestingly I was looking through the Railway Modeller archive last night and found drawings for the coaling stage and water tank at Stratford Upon Avon, along with a track plan. Again looks a good example of the size I was looking for 

 

What did we do before this place and google!??

[bécasse]

4 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

Although small engine sheds for station pilots seem common on model railways, I can't think of any examples in real life.

Winchester City on the London-Southampton main line had a minuscule shed to house its pilot loco. The usual pilot loco (over many decades) was a B4 0-4-0T; they made excellent pilot locos, sure footed and able to shift almost anything, but running any distance light engine they pitched fore and aft so doing so was avoided if at all possible, hence presumably the provision of the shed.

[2251]

1 hour ago, TomJ said:

Thanks everyone. Some good examples. Malvern Road seems to fit the bill with it being a short distance down the line from the terminus at St James

 

Interestingly I was looking through the Railway Modeller archive last night and found drawings for the coaling stage and water tank at Stratford Upon Avon, along with a track plan. Again looks a good example of the size I was looking for 

 

What did we do before this place and google!??

 

The shed at Cheltenham was considerably closer to St James until the Honeybourne line opened -- the new junction was pretty much on the site of the old shed.

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by 2251

[Miss Prism]

Thanks for that - I had never seen a plan of the original Cheltenham shed. What does that turntable length scale to? (Not that such maps can be trusted to that level of detail.) 

[2251]

23 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

Thanks for that - I had never seen a plan of the original Cheltenham shed. What does that turntable length scale to? (Not that such maps can be trusted to that level of detail.) 

 

About 30 feet, for what that's worth.   

[Miss Prism]

Tank engines only! (I thought so.)

 

When did it disappear? 1910?

 

(It would make a great diorama though.)

 

[Welchester]

1 hour ago, 2251 said:

 

The shed at Cheltenham was considerably closer to St James until the Honeybourne line opened -- the new junction was pretty much on the site of the old shed.

 

 

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

Thanks for that - I had never seen a plan of the original Cheltenham shed. What does that turntable length scale to? (Not that such maps can be trusted to that level of detail.) 

 

1 hour ago, 2251 said:

 

About 30 feet, for what that's worth.   

 

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

Tank engines only! (I thought so.)

 

When did it disappear? 1910?

 

(It would make a great diorama though.)

 

 

You can see the edge of the turntable in this photograph from Brian Arman's Broad Gauge Engines of the Great Western Railway: Part 1 (Lightmoor Press). Another turntable was provided on the St James' Station site after the line to Honeybourne was opened.

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Plymouth Docks shed and Plymouth Laira were about half-a-mile apart.

 

Pardon - 2.5+ miles by rail and I would think a couple of miles by even the most direct road route and over a mile as the seagull flies.

 

However i think what the OP is really looking for is not a sub-shed but something more along the lines of Ranelagh Bridge (but smaller and no turntable), or Kingswear (but again without the turntable) or the Turntable Sidings at the west end of Plymouth North Road station. (but again without the turntable).  Kingsewar would probably be the best example as it linked almost directly off a platform line

[TomJ]

I’m not against a turntable but it’s the challenge of fitting and motorising it in N gauge that concerns me! Far better to assume there is a triangle nearby on which locos are turned!!!