Big 4 pre-nationalization container diagrams

[Carlislecitadel2]

[Carlislecitadel2]

Hi Evertrainz,

I sent you a message last week re containers and conflats. Can you please message me back as there may be somebody interetsed in making a conflat wagon and I see no point in duplicating models of the same vehiles so I am just trying to co-ordinate any efforts that may be out there. For example, I had seen somebody talking about drawing a LNER D25 frozen meat container but there is already a .stl available for such an item.

All the best,

Stephen

[Carlislecitadel2]

As we are trying to arrange for decals for the containers that we have drawn, we have been stumped by LMS container colours. Essery's LMS wagons Vol.2 says that the livery could be light or dark grey with white lettering,  or crimson lake with yellow lettering. From the pictures in his work, I believe that the furnititure containers were crimson lake and even had coaching stock style shadd lettering throughout, and some carried the LMS roundel. What is less clear is whether other containers had crimson lake paint or was it justdark grey. To my eyes, several of the B tye containers were painted crimson late rather than dark grey, but that is just going by my imterpretation of the shade.hue/depth, whatever you call it, of the grey in the black and white photos. Essery states that these containers could be crimson lake, or just dark grey but never commits as to which is more likely in any caption. So even though the LMS livery guides say some containers were crison lake with yellow letttering or than furniture ones with shared yellow/gold lettering, is anyone aware of what colour the steel types, and others in the book were most likely to have been. I have tried running scans of them through an online colouriser, but eah time the result still looks like a black and white pic. does this mean the containers were therefore dark grey or is the colouriser just useless? Hvave any more recently articles since Vol. 2's ublication shed more light on this issue. Any info would be gratefully appreciated. I would like to see these models in crimson livery as I think that would be more attractive, but I'm more concerned that they look accurate.

Also please find attached a screen rint of the latest D ype - an LMS steel version.

[Carlislecitadel2]

sorry, right pic this time

[NZRedBaron]

On the subject of which; I was looking at PECO's website before, and at what was listed as a Type DX open container kit, to suit the companion conflat kit; what would such a container even be used for?

[65179]

5 hours ago, NZRedBaron said:

On the subject of which; I was looking at PECO's website before, and at what was listed as a Type DX open container kit, to suit the companion conflat kit; what would such a container even be used for?

 

Anything you might find in an open wagon that would fit in the container and not obstruct fitting of the spreader beams. Peter Tatlow's LNER Wagons 4B lists bottles, machinery, tiles, bricks, scrap tin, concrete and plaster blocks,  castings, ranges, cookers, registers, radiators, baths, earthenware, hardware, box boards, gramophone, iron and steelwork and shrubs and trees.  @jwealleans has in the past noted a photo showing one or more DX loaded with aggregate if memory serves. 

 

Paul Bartlett's site has some useful details for the smaller Type H container:

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brhodcontainer/h36be5370

 

Simon 

[Wickham Green too]

13 hours ago, Carlislecitadel2 said:

... or is the colouriser just useless? ...

It can only be as useful or useless as the info it holds  -  and it's probably never met an LMS container before ....... ☹️

[Mol_PMB]

I posted these links earlier in response to another query but they might perhaps be of interest here. Apologies if not. 
 

A selection of 1960s photos of Ardwick goods depot, Manchester, which handled a lot of traditional containers. Includes conflats, various container types, road vehicles, cranes etc. Scroll down a bit:

gmlives.org.uk/results.html?#imu[search=ardwick goods]

Some pictures from nearby Oldham Road which also handled containers. No close-up views but some of the open containers and some nice general views of the yard, facilities and road vehicles:

gmlives.org.uk/results.html?#imu[search=oldham road goods]

 

Hope that gives some inspiration, even if they are all in shades of grey and probably BR types by this late date. 

Mol

[Cwmtwrch]

At Ardwick FM60176 was Ice Blue and BR; the one with the Geest bananas label was possibly white, possibly very faded blue. The furniture container BK8821B with the faded flying crate was bauxite and also BR. The BD partly hidden by the crane lorry is bauxite as well; the other two are not identifiable, but are likely to be bauxite again, given the date. The open containers at Oldham Road would have been unfitted wagon grey, and possibly out of use when the 1966 photos were taken.

 

Thanks for posting details of the site. I had a lot of Manchester photo references from a project a few years ago and couldn't find the pictures online last time I tried; I now know where they are again!

[Buhar]

In the absence of a definitive answer on their colours in LMS days, it would be reasonable to assume lake for those containers likely to be seen out and about by the general public, eg removals or store delivery with grey for more mundane activities.  Which shade of grey is a matter for you.

 

Alan

Edited December 19, 2023 by Buhar
Clarity

[Carlislecitadel2]

Thanks for the link to the Manchester photos Mol. Any pics of containers are welcome. I had come to same conclusion as Alan, namely that crimson lake was probably only used on furniture containers or ones seen as public rather than industry facing. It’s a shame as I think the steel types would look good in crimson lake. There is a  YouTube video of Camden goods depot in LMS days. Would a colouriser maybe work better in a video where there is more detail etc, in adjoining frames to play with or does it only colourise on a frame by frame basis?