K's Jubilee Tender

[ianwales]

Just wondering if someone with the knowledge or long memory may be able to assist, Is my memory correct in thinking the whitemetal LMS tender that K's did for their Jubilee 4-6-0 was a curve top 3500 gall example rather than a 4000 gall one?

 

Ian

[sjp23480]

I believe it is, yes

[Steamport Southport]

Yes. As fitted to 5552 Silver Jubilee after it had swapped identities (which was the number and name supplied with the kit).

 

The Black Five had a 4000 gallon and the Stanier Mogul a 3500 gallon Fowler. You could buy the tenders separately at the time. Saw a 3500 gallon Stanier tender on eBay a few weeks ago still in the packaging. Sold for about £15.

 

I think the only other option is the Brassmasters kit.

 

 

 

Jason

[Clive Mortimore]

This week I cut and shut a 4,000 tender. I thought it was a Bachmann one but only the frame was, the top I think is a Hornby one. It only had one foot step and the loco coupling was in a rather odd place. That what comes of seeing a cheap model on line. 

 

The 3,500 gallon stumpy tender.

 

Here it is with a 4,000 gallon one.

 

I am also making a 3,500 gallon straight sided tender, my four Jubilees each with a different tender.

[41516]

Mainline body above, (rather battered 2nd hand) K's below.

 

[65179]

Noticeable that it has the top horizontal row of rivets in the wrong place for a 3500 gallon tender. The bigger gap on the 3500 gallon tender between the beading around the rear of the tender sidesheet and that row of rivets is the easiest way to distinguish this tender from a 4000 gallon one in photos.

 

Flickr photo posted by 'Richard' showing 45659 Drake and another 3500 gallon tender fitted loco at Kentish Town :

Simon

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, 65179 said:

Noticeable that it has the top horizontal row of rivets in the wrong place for a 3500 gallon tender. The bigger gap on the 3500 gallon tender between the beading around the rear of the tender sidesheet and that row of rivets is the easiest way to distinguish this tender from a 4000 gallon one in photos.

 

Flickr photo posted by 'Richard' showing 45659 Drake and another 3500 gallon tender fitted loco at Kentish Town :

Simon

Hi Simon

 

Just over a week ago I went through Flickr, one Jubilee at a time looking at the rivet positions on Stanier tenders to see which ones in the late 50s and early 60s were towing 3,500 gallon tenders. I assume the information which loco and which tender were paired with each other at what dates is available somewhere so my exercise might be seen by some as a waste of time, but who doesn't like looking at photos of trains.

 

As for my model, I am not going to remove the row of rivets to replace them with rivet transfers when in 4mm scale the smaller tender is a more readable means of identification. 

 

As for the Ks model, had I known I might have waited for one to appear on E-bin, on the other hand I might have still done the conversion.

[65179]

26 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Simon

 

Just over a week ago I went through Flickr, one Jubilee at a time looking at the rivet positions on Stanier tenders to see which ones in the late 50s and early 60s were towing 3,500 gallon tenders. I assume the information which loco and which tender were paired with each other at what dates is available somewhere so my exercise might be seen by some as a waste of time, but who doesn't like looking at photos of trains.

 

As for my model, I am not going to remove the row of rivets to replace them with rivet transfers when in 4mm scale the smaller tender is a more readable means of identification. 

 

As for the Ks model, had I known I might have waited for one to appear on E-bin, on the other hand I might have still done the conversion.

 

Hi Clive,

 

In 4mm Brassmasters and Alan Gibson are/were the other options aside from K's.

 

The Book of the Jubilees is pretty good for information on which locos had which tenders.  That information, as I understand it, comes from the record cards, so looking at photos would still be a good idea particularly for the end of their lives.  It's always worth a second look,  particularly if it's a Midland Division Jubilee, just to check if it's a 4000 or 3500 gallon tender.

 

I don't blame you for not changing the rivets! It might be a useful aid to spotting them in photos, but it's hardly worth risking messing up your tender sides trying to move them a few millimetres.

 

I do like a 3500 gallon tendered Jubilee:

 

 

What's your straight sided one going to be?

Simon

[Clive Mortimore]

39 minutes ago, 65179 said:

 

Hi Clive,

 

In 4mm Brassmasters and Alan Gibson are/were the other options aside from K's.

 

The Book of the Jubilees is pretty good for information on which locos had which tenders.  That information, as I understand it, comes from the record cards, so looking at photos would still be a good idea particularly for the end of their lives.  It's always worth a second look,  particularly if it's a Midland Division Jubilee, just to check if it's a 4000 or 3500 gallon tender.

 

I don't blame you for not changing the rivets! It might be a useful aid to spotting them in photos, but it's hardly worth risking messing up your tender sides trying to move them a few millimetres.

 

I do like a 3500 gallon tendered Jubilee:

 

 

What's your straight sided one going to be?

Simon

Hi Simon

 

Again I was unaware of the Brassmasters and Alan Gibson models. I am quite happy to cut up a plastic model to achieve what I am after, after all all there over 100 ways to peel a potato (I am married to a vegan so can't talk about skinning cats).

 

As for the flat sided tender, following information from Model Railways Jan 1974, the loco in front will be 45710 Irresistible. Naturally named after me. Other possibilities are 45610 Jamaica or 45613 Kenya.  

[ianwales]

Many Thanks for the various replies, this one is on ebay at the moment, is it a 3500 or a 4000? - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/126181436718?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=kTIAJmolRvW&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

Ian

[ianwales]

4 hours ago, 65179 said:

 

Hi Clive,

 

In 4mm Brassmasters and Alan Gibson are/were the other options aside from K's.

 

The Book of the Jubilees is pretty good for information on which locos had which tenders.  That information, as I understand it, comes from the record cards, so looking at photos would still be a good idea particularly for the end of their lives.  It's always worth a second look,  particularly if it's a Midland Division Jubilee, just to check if it's a 4000 or 3500 gallon tender.

 

I don't blame you for not changing the rivets! It might be a useful aid to spotting them in photos, but it's hardly worth risking messing up your tender sides trying to move them a few millimetres.

 

I do like a 3500 gallon tendered Jubilee:

 

 

What's your straight sided one going to be?

Simon

 

Hi Simon

 

Any options for the 3500G Straight High side tender, the only one I was aware of was the Jidenco/Falcon Brass one?

 

Ian

Edited November 16, 2023 by ianwales

[sjp23480]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Alan Gibson models

I was watching an AG version on Ebay a few weeks back. 

Bidding topped out at over £46, a bit too rich for my taste. 

I think the Brassmasters version retails at about £40.

[65179]

16 minutes ago, ianwales said:

 

Hi Simon

 

Any options for the 3500G Straight High side tender, the only one I was aware of was the Jidenco/Falcon Brass one?

 

Ian

 

Hi Ian,

 

You could see if @innocentman still takes orders for his as mentioned on this thread: 

 

 

Other former options are also mentioned.

1 minute ago, sjp23480 said:

I was watching an AG version on Ebay a few weeks back. 

Bidding topped out at over £46, a bit too rich for my taste. 

I think the Brassmasters version retails at about £40.

 

It's £65 now such has been the increase in metal prices.

 

Simon

[sjp23480]

1 minute ago, 65179 said:

It's £65 now such has been the increase in metal prices

Yikes!  Shows how long it's been since I looked on their website. 

[Steamport Southport]

Judith Edge do an etch for the experimental "prototype" 3500 gallon high sided tender as fitted to a couple of the Compounds.

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrmlsh74.htm

 

Pointing it out for completeness. Got one in the pile, but need an LMS Compound to fit it to.

 

 

Jason

[45568]

Here is one I completed earlier this year, grafted the K's whitemetal body on to a Bachmann  Fowler underframe. Lining/transfers/plates by Fox.

 

 

 

Like others, I would like the hybrid 3500 tender. I followed the one on Ebay as I intended to graft the sides on to another Bachmann Fowler. 

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[DCB]

There is a very good thread from June 2012   Bachmann Jubilee  By Lochinvar, June 2, 2012 in "Bachmann"   with pictures on page 6  of the  preserved Stanier 3500 gallon tender  which ran behind  48305   (in 2012) .

All the model tenders seem to have a buffer beam or cross member on the front end  of the frames in front of the tender foot steps which the full size tenders did not have. Without it the tender can be coupled a more realistic closer distance.   I can't help thinking  the Ks chassis is pretty dire and binning it in favour of a Bachmann etc one  might be a good idea, even if that means cutting the frame from the body.   I did  something similar with a Hawksworth tender to use the body on a RTR chassis before Dapol brought out the 00 RTR one

Edited November 17, 2023 by DCB

[Steamport Southport]

Careful with the "preserved" example as it's a hybrid of different tenders.

 

http://www.ten.rhrp.org.uk/tens/TenderInfo.asp?Ref=168

 

 

Jason

[65179]

4 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Careful with the "preserved" example as it's a hybrid of different tenders.

 

http://www.ten.rhrp.org.uk/tens/TenderInfo.asp?Ref=168

 

 

Jason

 

Yes, we've been here before on here with 48305's tender.  The Johnson chassis on that tender gave it a rather different look, not least in terms of different side frame cutouts and particularly axleboxes. As Jason's link shows the tank has now been rebuilt too so that the current tender is essentially no use for modellers creating a 3500 gallon tender as built.

 

Simon