Deltic Names Reimagined for 2023

[Stentor]

Pure musing this but if it's in the wrong place please move it wonderful Admin team.

 

Lying awake at 4 a.m. the other night trying to get to sleep I started thing about what names the Deltics would be named if they were recreated in a parallel universe in 2023. 

 

For the regiments it might be what those original regiments are now called.

 

Looking at the last big name wins of the racehorses it would be perhaps the name of the horse that won the equivalent big race the number of years it was before the original horse names were allocated in 1961/2. So Meld won the St. Ledger in 1955, six years before she was named in 1961 so her name in 2023 would be the St. Leger winner in 2017.

 

So here are my suggestions for what they could be in 2023:

 

55001                          Eldar Eldarov

55002 and 55017      The Rifles

55003                          Capri

55004 and 55013      The Scottish, Welsh & Irish Divisions

55005                          The Royal Yorkshire Regiment

55006                          The Scottish and North Irish Yeomanry

55007                          Golden Horn

55008 and 55014      The Royal Yorkshire Regiment

55009                          Fame & Glory

55010 and 55021      The Royal Regiment of Scotland

55011                          The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers

55012                          Anthony Van Dyck

55015                          Kingston Hill

55016                          92nd Regiment of Foot

55018                          Sottsass

55019                          The Highland Light Infantry

55020                          Workforce

55022                          Royal Scots Dragoon Guards

 

So what does this tell us? As we all sadly know the army has been chopped up well and truly in the last 60 or so years with many famous names now just proud memories. 

 

As for the horses I can now understand why you don’t see many modern locomotives named after racehorses as apart from Capri, I loved my 2 litre S, they are not an especially inspiring bunch of names unless of course you had a big win on one of them. I certainly cannot see anybody naming a loco Golden Horn these days.

 

Well that's my guess, I'll go back to sleep now.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

Meld was a Triple Crown winner, and I am sure that if racehorse names had been perpetuated then Nijinsky (1970) would have been honoured. Oh So Sharp (1985) is the only subsequent Triple Crown winner, but does not have such a good name. The LNER were not averse to trawling the history books. The Class A1/A3 Blink Bonny (built in 1924) honoured the 1857 winner of both The Derby and The Oaks.

 

Golden Horn definitely deserves his place in your list, and Workforce seems a decent choice as well, but I'm not so sure about most of the others. The biggest omission is surely Frankel, the 2011 winner of the 2000 Guineas (all the Deltic racehorses won at least one of the Classics, so this has to be the entry point, although Frankel is better known for his other races). Fame & Glory was beaten by Sea the Stars in the 2009 Derby, and it is surely Sea the Stars who would be honoured. Sottsass wasn't at all a bad horse, but he was French. I don't know my LNER locomotive names well enough to know whether they ever named a locomotive after a French racehorse.

 

This leaves a few names short. Camelot is an obvious contender, as well has having a great name. Whoever chose names for the Deltics seemed to favour the St Leger, and Logician is perhaps the most memorable winner of recent years.

[john new]

31 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

Meld was a Triple Crown winner, and I am sure that if racehorse names had been perpetuated then Nijinsky (1970) would have been honoured. Oh So Sharp (1985) is the only subsequent Triple Crown winner, but does not have such a good name. The LNER were not averse to trawling the history books. The Class A1/A3 Blink Bonny (built in 1924) honoured the 1857 winner of both The Derby and The Oaks.

 

Golden Horn definitely deserves his place in your list, and Workforce seems a decent choice as well, but I'm not so sure about most of the others. The biggest omission is surely Frankel, the 2011 winner of the 2000 Guineas (all the Deltic racehorses won at least one of the Classics, so this has to be the entry point, although Frankel is better known for his other races). Fame & Glory was beaten by Sea the Stars in the 2009 Derby, and it is surely Sea the Stars who would be honoured. Sottsass wasn't at all a bad horse, but he was French. I don't know my LNER locomotive names well enough to know whether they ever named a locomotive after a French racehorse.

 

This leaves a few names short. Camelot is an obvious contender, as well has having a great name. Whoever chose names for the Deltics seemed to favour the St Leger, and Logician is perhaps the most memorable winner of recent years.

The St Leger is run at Doncaster to explain the bias.

[Bernard Lamb]

Sea Bird or Galileo as among the best.

Santa Claus as far as my family is concerned. In 1964 he was. A long standing family joke that my mother never did understand.

There were several oddities in the LNER system. Brown Jack being probably the best example.

Bernard

 

[Trevellan]

An interesting concept.

 

My first thought upon seeing the name of 55 003 was that it would have been in a bright yellow livery with black trim and roof.

 

Right, now where's my medication?

[Titan]

Whilst you can name a racehorse almost anything you like, there are some restrictions regarding obscenity and vulgarity.  However there are some that will try it on, and occasionally one will get through.

 

Hoof Hearted was one such, which somehow seems quite appropriate for a Deltic. Dunno if he won anything though.

[Strathwood]

The suggestions for names could be far worse if we drifted back towards the likes of Top of the Pops and Jimmy Saville you can see what I mean...

 

The regimental names employed by the LMS, LNER and to a lesser degree by the GWR were inspiring, as were the Squadrons on the SR, along with distinguished Admirals, even BR joined in with some good choices for Britannia names which in turn evolved into a decent selection of names for Peaks, Warships and Deltics. Even regimental names were considered for several Class 37s.

 

This brings me back full circle to suggesting that those who came up with the likes of those two names above around Top of the Pops and many similar "daft" names, perhaps thought that in naming D822 Hercules was after the Warship for sure but by the time they got around to naming 50007 as Hercules in 1978 it was after Albert Steptoe's horse, hence renaming 50007 to Sir Edward Elgar (Edward the green engine)?

 

Kevin

[Steamport Southport]

Whilst not Deltics I always thought it odd that Aldaniti got a Class 86 named after it, yet arguably the most famous racehorse ever, Red Rum, didn't!

 

It did get a Merseyrail 507 EMU a few years later, but that's hardly in the same league.

 

 

 

Jason

[Talltim]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

Whilst not Deltics I always thought it odd that Aldaniti got a Class 86 named after it, yet arguably the most famous racehorse ever, Red Rum, didn't!

 

It did get a Merseyrail 507 EMU a few years later, but that's hardly in the same league.

 

 

 

Jason

Would Red Rum be named Mur Der on the other side?

[Steamport Southport]

16 minutes ago, Talltim said:

Would Red Rum be named Mur Der on the other side?

 

Only if you start doing the funny voice!

 

 

[62613]

8 hours ago, Strathwood said:

The suggestions for names could be far worse if we drifted back towards the likes of Top of the Pops and Jimmy Saville you can see what I mean...

 

The regimental names employed by the LMS, LNER and to a lesser degree by the GWR were inspiring, as were the Squadrons on the SR, along with distinguished Admirals, even BR joined in with some good choices for Britannia names which in turn evolved into a decent selection of names for Peaks, Warships and Deltics. Even regimental names were considered for several Class 37s.

 

This brings me back full circle to suggesting that those who came up with the likes of those two names above around Top of the Pops and many similar "daft" names, perhaps thought that in naming D822 Hercules was after the Warship for sure but by the time they got around to naming 50007 as Hercules in 1978 it was after Albert Steptoe's horse, hence renaming 50007 to Sir Edward Elgar (Edward the green engine)?

 

Kevin

Hercules was a battleship, though; 10 x 12", 4" secondary armament. I think a single - ship class, the last before the Super Dreadnoughts appeared

[62613]

What about Mill Reef?

[pH]

Or this one:
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ela-Mana-Mou

[wolfman055]

Interesting topic. I think LNER also used birds eg Mallard and Bittern but based upon your revised names thank god they chose the brilliant names they did. 

As another poster has mentioned warships and 50s it's a coincidence that I was out after 68s Thursday and saw a few but was hauled but Courageous. 

Maybe they should have used deltic racehorse names for the 68s instead. 

[Nearholmer]

Many Dinorwic quarry locos were named after racehorses owned by the quarry owner, which included some pretty successful/famous ones in Victorian m/Edwardian times. The Leighton Buzzard NG railway also used racehorse names for its diesel locos for a while, and there is certainly still a ‘Red Rum’.

 

Here is Cloister:

 

And, here is Cloister, with Mr Asheton Smith, who owned them both:

 

I think he had three Grand National winners, Cloister, Jerry M, and Covertcoat, all of which had locos named after them.

 

PS: The Festiniog loco that really made that railway famous ‘Little Wonder’ was I think also named after a Derby winner which in Victorian times was a byword for an unlikely success, because it came in at 50/1.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Many Dinorwic quarry locos were named after racehorses owned by the quarry owner, which included some pretty successful/famous ones in Victorian m/Edwardian times. The Leighton Buzzard NG railway also used racehorse names for its diesel locos for a while, and there is certainly still a ‘Red Rum’.

 

Here is Cloister:

 

And, here is Cloister, with Mr Asheton Smith, who owned them both:

 

I think he had three Grand National winners, Cloister, Jerry M, and Covertcoat, all of which had locos named after them.

 

PS: The Festiniog loco that really made that railway famous ‘Little Wonder’ was I think also named after a Derby winner which in Victorian times was a byword for an unlikely success, because it came in at 50/1.

 

Also LADAS on the Snowdon Mountain Railway which shared it's name with the horse that the LNER A3 was named after.

 

Named after Laura Alice Duff Assheton-Smith.

 

The owner of the horse was friends of the family (many of which were politicians) The Earl Of Roseberry, briefly Prime Minister. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archibald_Primrose,_5th_Earl_of_Rosebery

 

The Hunslet Alice's name comes from the same source.

 

 

Jason

[Nearholmer]

But was the horse Ladas named after Laura Alice? I know the loco was, and I think one version of the nameplates showed L.A.D.A.S, but I thought the horse was named after Alexander the Great’s messenger.

 

The family were so horse mad that it’s conceivable that they made sure the daughter’s initials spelled the name of a famous horse! [No, Laura Alice married into the clan, born Laura Alice Stanhope Jones, m1888. Also, the family were conservatives, while Roseberry was a Liberal, so I’m not totally sure they were pals. Lord Salisbury certainly was pals with them.]
 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Jeremy Cumberland]

I'm pretty sure that the Snowdon Mountain LADAS has no connection with the racehorse.

 

It is fairly common for railway owners to name locomotives after their wives and daughters, and the Duff Assheton-Smiths extended this to naming locomotives after their winning racehorses. However, not all locomotives had racehorse names bestowed on them for such noble reasons. On the other side of the mountain from Dinorwic was Penrhyn Quarry, and when in 1921 they bought an unnamed second-hand Kerr Stuart Haig class locomotive, the staff quickly bestowed on it the name Sergeant Murphy, because its gait was supposed to resemble that of the famous hurdler (reported by JIC Boyd in Narrow Gauge Railways in North Caernavonshire Volume 2). Later on, Sergeant Murphy (the horse) went on to win the Grand National, and Sgt Murphy (the locomotive - I don't think it ever had "Sergeant" nameplates) became an Archangel live steam model, and so entered my consciousness.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Jeremy Cumberland

[Bernard Lamb]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

But was the horse Ladas named after Laura Alice? I know the loco was, and I think one version of the nameplates showed L.A.D.A.S, but I thought the horse was named after Alexander the Great’s messenger.

 

The family were so horse mad that it’s conceivable that they made sure the daughter’s initials spelled the name of a famous horse! [No, Laura Alice married into the clan, born Laura Alice Stanhope Jones, m1888. Also, the family were conservatives, while Roseberry was a Liberal, so I’m not totally sure they were pals. Lord Salisbury certainly was pals with them.]
 

 

I have never come across any connection and agree re the derivation of the name for the Gresley locomotive.

Oddly enough I almost bought a house in Grafton that was part of the stud farm, at the time when the whole Mentmore estate was sold off.

Bernard

 

[Nearholmer]

I bought a really very nice Volkswagen Passat Estate car, full leather interior, automatic transmission, all added gizmos, barely any mileage, which had been used by her ladyship* on her occasional visits to tour the various farms - absolute bargain, which served me for fifteen years. A rare example of ‘trickle down’!
 

*Baroness, I think. She died in 2019, but about ten years before that had become a bit frail for her horse pursuits.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Nearholmer

[Anadin Dogwalker]

How about Sefton, the most seriously injured survivor of the Hyde Park barracks bombing? There's a life-size statue of him at the Royal Veterinary College near Potters Bar.

[Flying Pig]

15 hours ago, wolfman055 said:

I think LNER also used birds eg Mallard and Bittern

 

I look forward to a batch of Deltics named Green Warbler, Greenish Warbler and Two-barred Greenish Warbler (all about the size of a blue tit).

[Nearholmer]

I’ve always thought ‘Silver Blaze’ should have had a loco named after it, even if it was a fictional famous horse. It would have gone well with Silver King etc.

[Steamport Southport]

5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

But was the horse Ladas named after Laura Alice? I know the loco was, and I think one version of the nameplates showed L.A.D.A.S, but I thought the horse was named after Alexander the Great’s messenger.

 

The family were so horse mad that it’s conceivable that they made sure the daughter’s initials spelled the name of a famous horse! [No, Laura Alice married into the clan, born Laura Alice Stanhope Jones, m1888. Also, the family were conservatives, while Roseberry was a Liberal, so I’m not totally sure they were pals. Lord Salisbury certainly was pals with them.]
 

 

 

Look at the dates. 

 

Huge coincidence otherwise, and I don't believe in them.

 

 

Jason

[Nearholmer]

Have a look at the story of the horse, and how it got its name - nothing to do with the lady in question: it was named after another horse.