GUV/CCTs in passenger trains

[Wickham Green too]

On 19/11/2023 at 21:09, Wickham Green too said:

There was a ban on four- and six-wheeled stock in passenger trains from --/--/6- ................ 

Yep - I've already been corrected on that ........... furthermore ....

 

24.124 etc : Loch Carron, 21/8/74

[Stoke West]

9 hours ago, Trevellan said:

GUVs in WR passenger services seemed to be fairly common in the early 1970s. I've dug out a couple of slides from my collection, both taken in 1974. The first shows Western Envoy departing from St Austell in June of that year, with what look like two NPCCS examples of LMS origin.

 

 

 

The second shot below was taken later in 1974, but I can't recall the location, other than being somewhere east of Totnes. The light was failing by that point, so it's not a great picture.

 

1A45 is west of Totnes dropping down from Tigley 

[br2975]

On 20/11/2023 at 19:37, SCR said:

Hi 

Some more items of interest 

 

1B38 23.00 EX Cardiff to Bristol tm passinger.pos sorting vans and parcels which includes 4wheel vans

Like ex southern pmv and cct which contain fish traffic.

 

1B58. 21.20 Bristol to Plymouth passenger and parcel vans 

 

 

All ran up to mid and late 1970s

.

My 1970-1971 WTT shows 

.

1B43 23:00 Cardiff - Bristol, 'conveys POS vans' and WTT identifies the train as not being permitted to convey four-wheeled vehicles with a wheelbase of less than 18' 0"

.

I'm off to check my other WTTs and any CWNs that may be relevant.

Edited November 21, 2023 by br2975

[Ramblin Rich]

There was a thread a few years ago about DMU tail traffic which included this post of a Cross Country unit towing a CCT at Caersws on the Cambrian line:

 

[keefer]

23 hours ago, Steven B said:

1978:

27011+27032* n by Steve Thorpe, on Flickr

 

May 1995 was when Motorail was stopped by BR:

(6089Gardener on Flickr)

 

 

If you want to ride on a train with a CCT, head to the North Norfolk Railway - they attach one to a train during the summer months when it's used to carry prams and pushchairs belonging to the youngest of their passengers.

 

 

Steven B

The second pic with the cl.90 is interesting for showing how the Up (loco pushing) trains were run - the GUVs went behind the loco as they were not fitted with RCH/TDM cables.

On Down services, they would just be in the train as normal, TDM not required as the loco was hauling the train.

[w124bob]

There are a couple of pictures I've seen somewhere on Flickr of a Craven 105 dmu somewhere in the Bamber Bridge area with a parcels vehicle or two circa mid 70's. The Norwich Birmingham service was usually formed with a BG in the train but I've seen pictures, again on Flickr, where the formation included a GUV. BR retro fitted a small fleet of GUV's with B4 bogies and dual brakes/dual heat for mainline passenger service(not motor rail).

This is not the picture I had in mind as it's taken at Hitchin

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by w124bob

[31A]

1 hour ago, w124bob said:

There are a couple of pictures I've seen somewhere on Flickr of a Craven 105 dmu somewhere in the Bamber Bridge area with a parcels vehicle or two circa mid 70's. The Norwich Birmingham service was usually formed with a BG in the train but I've seen pictures, again on Flickr, where the formation included a GUV. BR retro fitted a small fleet of GUV's with B4 bogies and dual brakes/dual heat for mainline passenger service(not motor rail).

This is not the picture I had in mind as it's taken at Hitchin

 

 

 

Nice hybrid DMU!

[bécasse]

6 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Nice hybrid DMU!

Indeed! The very sort of hybrid DMU which, if you put one out on an exhibition layout, would produce a queue of people telling you that such combinations didn't occur on the real railway. I seem to remember coming up from Cambridge to Kings Cross one Saturday evening in a very similar mongrel unit in, I think, the latter part of 1974.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

I ought to recognise them I know, but what are the high density units? I didn't think the ER had any apart from the orange star 125s. 116s, perhaps?

[Davexoc]

40 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

I ought to recognise them I know, but what are the high density units? I didn't think the ER had any apart from the orange star 125s. 116s, perhaps?

 

Listed in the '79 ABC are just 3 ER class 116 3 car suburban sets, so it could be as they were back then class 116/1 MS 50897,898 or 920, with class 175 TC 59335, 353 or 375. And the missing vehicle that the 105 was filling in for was class 116/2 MBS 50844, 845 or 867.

[Wickham Green too]

23 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

... 116s, perhaps?

Oddly, that's exactly what the original caption thinks ............. but makes no mention of the van !

[Ramblin Rich]

Here's a Facebook post of Chapelton on the Exeter to Barnstaple line around 1977. Class 31, 4x BR mk1s (I think SO, BSK, CK, CK) with a CCT bringing up the rear.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10228682334141851&set=gm.5700738233290647&idorvanity=476779799019876

 

[Stoke West]

2 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Here's a Facebook post of Chapelton on the Exeter to Barnstaple line around 1977. Class 31, 4x BR mk1s (I think SO, BSK, CK, CK) with a CCT bringing up the rear.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10228682334141851&set=gm.5700738233290647&idorvanity=476779799019876

 

1558 St Davids to Barnstaple

[Stoke West]

On 24/11/2023 at 20:44, w124bob said:

There are a couple of pictures I've seen somewhere on Flickr of a Craven 105 dmu somewhere in the Bamber Bridge area with a parcels vehicle or two circa mid 70's. The Norwich Birmingham service was usually formed with a BG in the train but I've seen pictures, again on Flickr, where the formation included a GUV. BR retro fitted a small fleet of GUV's with B4 bogies and dual brakes/dual heat for mainline passenger service(not motor rail).

This is not the picture I had in mind as it's taken at Hitchin

 

Would that be a non passenger train carrying mails etc , use to get these into and out of Paddington , not the parcel units but passenger units not in service 117's , turn the seats up throw the mail bags in and away , seen it done at Reading.

[Stoke West]

1 hour ago, Stoke West said:

1558 St Davids to Barnstaple

Got it going the wrong way its the 1755 Barnstaple to Exeter , 2B99 was the  reporting number for Barnstaple trains 

[br2975]

My photo of the 'classic' Thames Valley parcels lash-up, Reading 1974ish.

.

Cl.128 DPU

Blue star through wired GUV (either W86174 or W86572)

Cl.116 DMS

SR 4-wheeled 'swinger' on the rear.

.

A closer look confirms the GUV is one of the pair formerly used in the 'Railair Express Parcels' unit (between W51137 and W51150) - as there is a gap in the lettering where 'air' has been painted out to now read "Rail Express Parcels"

[45125]

I regularly used to travel on the 1628 Doncaster to Hull service (2H62) in 1975/6 and this often conveyed a CCT, it was usually formed of a Lincoln Heavyweight DMU. 

 

Also the 2038 Hull Leeds (1L52) and the 2135 Hull Doncaster (1D62) both conveyed CCT and GUVa along with a couple of MK1s for passenger accommodation , the reverse works also conveyed the same. 

 

There was also at one time a couple of Hull York workings that conveyed a right mixture of GUVs and CCTs with passenger vehicles thrown in for good measure. Even when the 1708 ex York became a Trans Pennine DMU CCTs would be conveyed.

 

There was also a KGX Leeds working that stopped almost everywhere also conveyed a right hotch potch of NPCCS including CCTs and GUVs

 

Al Taylor 

Edited December 3, 2023 by 45125