NCE Holder design is mine!!

[TomCrewe]

I just found this listing on flea bay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225871644290?hash=item3496ffc682:g:tXUAAOSwTRJfLr8R

 

Now few years ago I purchased a NCE Power Cab for my layout, I designed a 3D holder and along with the design and picture I put it on Thingiverse a free to share your designs website.

 

That's my design and they have even used my photograph, I just think it's a bit cheeky that something I design and gave away for free which takes a few pence to print someone else has taken advantage. At £10.75 plus £3.20 that's pricy for a bit of plastic.

 

 

[Happy Hippo]

This is what happens when you give things away for free and have no licencing arrangement in place.

 

Plenty of entrepreneurs and rip off artists out there on the look out for a fast buck.

[Oldddudders]

So that's two Good Things to come out of Crewe, then - the other one, of course, being Bentley....

[MarkSG]

32 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

This is what happens when you give things away for free and have no licencing arrangement in place.

 

Plenty of entrepreneurs and rip off artists out there on the look out for a fast buck.

 

I don't think the complaint is about the design being used. As the original post says, it was deliberately released for free, so there's nothing to stop anyone using it. The point seems to me to be more about the fact that someone is charging more than a tenner for something which, if you've got a 3D printer, costs only pennies to print.

 

Having said that, I don't think that's a justified complaint either. The tenner isn't the cost of the materials, it's the cost of the time and effort involved in converting the design to a physical product, as well as amortising the cost of the printer. That's entirely reasonable; in the vast majority of manufacturered products the overheads massively exceed the cost of materials. I bet there's only a few pennies worth of plastic in a typical RTR wagon, as well. But it's not the plastic you're paying for.

 

I do agree, though, that it is very, very cheeky to use the designer's own photo to publicise the product. The seller could at least have made one and taken their own photo of it for the listing. Using the original designer's photo gives a misleading impression that the product is in some way authorised or approved by him, which isn't the case. If it was me, I'd be inclined to complain to eBay about the use of the photo.

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, TomCrewe said:

they have even used my photograph,

It's infringement of copyright. Do you still have the original?

 

I'd contact the seller and tell him you are the owner of the photograph and he can't use it.

Unless you said the photo was also free to share.

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by melmerby

[Happy Hippo]

10 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

I do agree, though, that it is very, very cheeky to use the designer's own photo to publicise the product. The seller could at least have made one and taken their own photo of it for the listing. Using the original designer's photo gives a misleading impression that the product is in some way authorised or approved by him, which isn't the case. If it was me, I'd be inclined to complain to eBay about the use of the photo.

Certainly I'd be doing just that as there is a breach of copyright for the unauthorised use of the photo, although if it was put on the original website, the user could argue the picture was free to use as well.

 

This is why so many of our photographers have taken to watermarking their pictures, so there is absolutely no doubt.

 

some years ago, a friend and I were victims of a rip off merchant.  Back in the day before 3D printing, we produced a set of brass castings. The masters were hand made, so considerable time and effort went into them.  A couple of the narrow gauge wagon wagon kits the castings were made for, were purchased from us  by an American buyer.

 

Within weeks the castings,  now produced in white metal, accompanied an identical wagon, were being advertised on a US website.

 

Legally we had a case, as we'd deliberately put in a spurious nut and bolt, which had the kit in the USA, been designed independently would have been absent, but was there for all to see.

 

However, as one can imagine, the massive costs of bringing the case to court was prohibitive.  

 

 

[Free At Last]

Make them yourself and sell them on eBay for a few pence plus postage and put him out of business.

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Free At Last

[Damo666]

2 hours ago, TomCrewe said:

I just found this listing on flea bay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225871644290?hash=item3496ffc682:g:tXUAAOSwTRJfLr8R

 

Now few years ago I purchased a NCE Power Cab for my layout, I designed a 3D holder and along with the design and picture I put it on Thingiverse a free to share your designs website.

 

That's my design and they have even used my photograph, I just think it's a bit cheeky that something I design and gave away for free which takes a few pence to print someone else has taken advantage. At £10.75 plus £3.20 that's pricy for a bit of plastic.

 

 

Coincidently at the weekend I came across your files (assuming you are ToddTheTrainnut there) on Thngiverse, having just purchased a 3D printer. I have a list of items I want to print, and an NCE Powercab holder is one of them.

 

Looking on Thingiverse, it’s amazing how many complicated / overengineered versions there are, including one that almost encapsulates the Powercab. I like your design as it’s simply efficient and appears to work (I won’t know until I print it myself).

 

Thank you

[MarkC]

I feel your pain. About 25 years ago, my ship's incinerator control panel died, and the maker advised that the unit was obsolete. They offered a different item; this was received on board with no specific instructions for installation.

 

I worked out a suitable scheme, which took a couple of days to do properly, wired it up & tested it. All OK. I sent a copy of my drawing, with details of necessary modifications to the machine & its cabling, to my Superintendent for filing in the Office documentation.

 

2 months later, a circular from the makers was received, advising that the control panel on incinerator Type xxx was now obsolete, but a suitable replacement was available from them, and here was a copy of the modifications you would need to do... yes, my drawing & notes, verbatim...

 

I called the Superintendent. Oh, he says, I just forwarded your stuff to the makers to see if they had any comments to make. Sorry...

 

I was NOT impressed...

 

Mark

[NBL]

The dangers of free sharing I'm afraid.  

 

They can charge what they want, no-one is forcing anyone to buy it, and I'm pretty sure they are not living the high life from their profits!

 

I agree with what's been said above, if you are so inclined, print and sell your own and sell at a cost that is below theirs.

 

Regarding the photo, it's pretty poor form them using it, I'd contact them to ask them take it down and use their own photo.

[TomCrewe]

24 minutes ago, Damo666 said:

 

(assuming you are ToddTheTrainnut there) on Thngiverse,

 

No I am not 'ToddTheTrainnut' I am 'TomCrewe' A bit of explanation 'Thingiverse' is somewhere to share your designs and see others for free, use prints for yourself, adapt others and get idea's. Now the design I put up there a few people have printed and used but with my design you needed to drill the mounting holes as I did not know where the user needed it fitting. Then 'ToddTheTrainnut' adapted my design by adding two holes and that's what 'Thingiverse' is all about. Todd's is better unless you need different position for holes.

 

I am not that unhappy about the ebay rip off but just think it's a bit cheeky, for fun I may message them and ask for 20% design fee.......

[DCCconcepts]

These are cheaper than the ebay one and can be used for lots of other handsets - not just NCE!

 

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/controller-caddy-universal-handset-holder-single-pack/

 

Best Regards,

The DCCconcepts Team

[Damo666]

2 hours ago, TomCrewe said:

No I am not 'ToddTheTrainnut' I am 'TomCrewe'

 

Apologies for my mistake.

 

2 hours ago, TomCrewe said:

I am not that unhappy about the ebay rip off but just think it's a bit cheeky, for fun I may message them and ask for 20% design fee.......

 

I would definitely do that, if for no other reason than to let him/her know they have been spotted and there may be some consequences forthcoming, either a solicitor’s letter or a reprimand from eBay. It’ll worry them a little for a few days. Take that as karma.

 

It’ll also let them know others are watching what they are doing, and perhaps work a little harder the next time they use other’s hard work.

[Bernard Lamb]

2 hours ago, MarkC said:

I feel your pain. About 25 years ago, my ship's incinerator control panel died, and the maker advised that the unit was obsolete. They offered a different item; this was received on board with no specific instructions for installation.

 

I worked out a suitable scheme, which took a couple of days to do properly, wired it up & tested it. All OK. I sent a copy of my drawing, with details of necessary modifications to the machine & its cabling, to my Superintendent for filing in the Office documentation.

 

2 months later, a circular from the makers was received, advising that the control panel on incinerator Type xxx was now obsolete, but a suitable replacement was available from them, and here was a copy of the modifications you would need to do... yes, my drawing & notes, verbatim...

 

I called the Superintendent. Oh, he says, I just forwarded your stuff to the makers to see if they had any comments to make. Sorry...

 

I was NOT impressed...

 

Mark

I had exactly the opposite experience once.

Back in the late 1980s at work we had bought a new tensile testing machine. With a computer to control it that had  all the latest features. It was the third such machine in the country and the only one in the south of England. The supplier asked if it would be possible to let prospective customers see it in operation. I agreed subject to any commercial problems. He said that he would demonstrate it and I did not have to get involved. I had designed various routines to store the results and perform various calculations. I ran through what I did on the machine for the sales manager before he brought a potential customer to see it. He remarked that my software modifictions were better than the original and suggested that we show it to any potential clients. If they bought a machine from him they could buy the software update from me.

Bernard 

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, DCCconcepts said:

These are cheaper than the ebay one and can be used for lots of other handsets - not just NCE!

 

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/controller-caddy-universal-handset-holder-single-pack/

 

Best Regards,

The DCCconcepts Team

I have a couple of a similar version - only snag is the sides obscure the outermost buttons of the keypad, so some functions can't be used with the throttle in the pocket. The seller (a.n.other DCC trader)  told me it's possible to trim away the sides to give access to the buttons, but I didn't like to mess with it.

I like Tom's version here. 👍

[Nick C]

7 hours ago, TomCrewe said:

I just found this listing on flea bay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225871644290?hash=item3496ffc682:g:tXUAAOSwTRJfLr8R

 

Now few years ago I purchased a NCE Power Cab for my layout, I designed a 3D holder and along with the design and picture I put it on Thingiverse a free to share your designs website.

 

That's my design and they have even used my photograph, I just think it's a bit cheeky that something I design and gave away for free which takes a few pence to print someone else has taken advantage. At £10.75 plus £3.20 that's pricy for a bit of plastic.

 

You didn't give it away for free, you licenced it under a Creative Commons Attribution licence - and that means that if someone else is distributing it, they have to give you credit - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ 

 

They've not done so, so they're in breach of the licence terms. 

[62613]

5 hours ago, MarkC said:

I feel your pain. About 25 years ago, my ship's incinerator control panel died, and the maker advised that the unit was obsolete. They offered a different item; this was received on board with no specific instructions for installation.

 

I worked out a suitable scheme, which took a couple of days to do properly, wired it up & tested it. All OK. I sent a copy of my drawing, with details of necessary modifications to the machine & its cabling, to my Superintendent for filing in the Office documentation.

 

2 months later, a circular from the makers was received, advising that the control panel on incinerator Type xxx was now obsolete, but a suitable replacement was available from them, and here was a copy of the modifications you would need to do... yes, my drawing & notes, verbatim...

 

I called the Superintendent. Oh, he says, I just forwarded your stuff to the makers to see if they had any comments to make. Sorry...

 

I was NOT impressed...

 

Mark

That's why we started issuing drawings in .pdf format, complete with all the various title blocks! Much more difficult to substitute another title block in that case (it's happened on CAD!).

[Bernard Lamb]

10 hours ago, TomCrewe said:

I just found this listing on flea bay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225871644290?hash=item3496ffc682:g:tXUAAOSwTRJfLr8R

 

Now few years ago I purchased a NCE Power Cab for my layout, I designed a 3D holder and along with the design and picture I put it on Thingiverse a free to share your designs website.

 

That's my design and they have even used my photograph, I just think it's a bit cheeky that something I design and gave away for free which takes a few pence to print someone else has taken advantage. At £10.75 plus £3.20 that's pricy for a bit of plastic.

 

 

If you have a few £ to spare and want a bit of entertainment, it would be worth while sending them an invoice for the use of the photo. Say around £75 as a reasonable sum. I doubt if they will pay it. Then start a County Court procedure to recover the £75. I doubt if they will get involved. You are unlikely to get your money and fees back. However a judgement against them will mess up their credit rating.

No need for a Solicitor or any other expense. It is a straight forward procedure. 

I have done it once and it took a fair amount of time and effort, but I did get my revenge.

I have dealt with the national press over the use of photographs and they pay up straight away when sent an invoice.

Bernard

[MarkC]

4 hours ago, 62613 said:

That's why we started issuing drawings in .pdf format, complete with all the various title blocks! Much more difficult to substitute another title block in that case (it's happened on CAD!).

Sadly back then it was all faxed, plus one did still expect some honourable behaviour from others...

 

Mark

(Becoming ever more cynical as time passes...)

[jjb1970]

At one time one of the US based suppliers of body shells was notorious for allegedly making moulds from products made by other manufacturers. 

 

Unfortunately, as the hippo says,  the costs of seeking legal redress are prohibitive for small companies and even if you win you'll almost certainly still be out of pocket given the potential damages and that in all liklihood the other party probably doesn't have much in the way of assets. 

[Giles]

T'was ever thus...... I have a number of commercial inventions - some mine but most 'owned' by a company. They get ripped off internationally,  and there is little to be done realistically as the cost of protecting a product can be extraordinarily high, and patents or registered designs can be got round by alterations etc.. the best course of action is usually to manufacture it better and cheaper, and be known for it, so customers come to you for it. it is however still galling to find rip-off products in places like the National Theatre (who had them installed innocently).