Which Loco has the honor of the modern smokebox as we know it from Stephenson

[844fan]

Just been wondering after watching Victor Tanzig on YouTube, he has a concept called Non-Faceless Vehicles to explain Locos that are alive in his Sodor AU. While I am not wanting to run a serious conversation on Thomas here. I am sure we all have opinions on the Blue E2, but it was why I asked this question so I thought I would mention it. 

 

This got me wondering, I know that at some point Rocket was given a modern Smokebox as the remains of the old one sit in the National Collection with a buffer beam and round Smokebox. But that wasn't how it was in the early years of running, at Rainhill it had a tube not a flue with blast pipes. So I wonder what was the first steam engine to be given a proper Smokebox (also is it one or two words? I always say Smokebox but I have been wrong.) and who better to ask then my colleagues in rail history from the birthplace of steam?

 

Hopefully this will actually be a good discussion, I know my prior posts were a tad vague.

[Dunalastair]

1829 Stourbridge Lion? Pre-Rocket? But no door - only a painting of a Lion.

 

https://www.therailwayhub.co.uk/62622/stourbridge-lion/

Edited December 8, 2023 by Dunalastair

[Steamport Southport]

Northumbrian is the locomotive deemed to have the first "modern" locomotive boiler with smokebox.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northumbrian_(locomotive)

 

 

 

Jason

[Jeremy Cumberland]

Well, the blastpipe was invented by Trevithick, but in early locomotives it was placed in the chimney. With single and return flue boilers, it was also found that the blast might be too powerful and lift the fire. Early locomotives had no particular need for a smokebox that I can see, but some (all?) return flue boilers had an access hatch at the far end.

 

The multi-tubular boiler was invented by Marc Seguin in 1827, which he used in a return-flue arrangement. Seguin foresaw that draught might be a problem, for he equipped his locomotive with a blower, which used hand-worked fans to literally blow air through the fire.

 

Stephenson and Seguin had a long history of collaboration, and Stephenson took Seguin's fire-tube design and used it on Rocket. To improve draughting (but reducing thermal efficiency) he placed the firebox outside the boiler, and of course he used a blastpipe in the chimney.

 

Northumbrian, as well as having a smokebox, also had a water jacket around the firebox, which is arguably a more important invention than the smokebox. My guess is that the addition of a smokebox wasn't so much to improve draughting, which I doubt was any better in Northumbrian than in Rocket, but for other reasons. In Rocket's original design, any cinders conveyed through the tubes would be difficult to remove, the front tube plate would have been very difficult to access for inspection or repair, and there was no thermal barrier at the front of the boiler, where it was most needed when travelling at high speeds. The smokebox solved all these problems.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Jeremy Cumberland

[LMS2968]

The suggestion to use multiple tubes in Rocket's boiler came from Henry Booth, the L&MR Secretary and Treasurer, and not from either of the Stephensons although it was Robert who had to make it work in practice. It was on this basis that Booth claimed one third of of the £500 premium the engine won at Rainhill.

 

Rocket's external firebox was also water jacketed around the sides and top, and was later fitted with a water jacketed backplate.

[844fan]

On 08/12/2023 at 05:23, LMS2968 said:

The suggestion to use multiple tubes in Rocket's boiler came from Henry Booth, the L&MR Secretary and Treasurer, and not from either of the Stephensons although it was Robert who had to make it work in practice. It was on this basis that Booth claimed one third of of the £500 premium the engine won at Rainhill.

 

Rocket's external firebox was also water jacketed around the sides and top, and was later fitted with a water jacketed backplate.

A wise investment, Rocket didn't just achieve the stipulations of the RHT,it flat out blew them away. When do you think Stephenson added a smokebox to the Rain Hill King, and why if as you all say it would be too much draft to not put out the fire, yet we know thanks to the National Collection it was improved on.

 

So many grand names to connect to the history of these living machines. Watt was only responsible for using steam in the Earth, but Richard, Stephenson, and so many would give us fire, water, earth and air. The fire sword of alchemy wrought into a creature that has and always will be important to history. 

 

You can't tell me that steam isn't alive, look at Dolgoch how could pure mechanical power run to the terminus of that line with one cylinder, in a downpour of Welsh weather and leaking steam? The steam locomotive earned the name Iron Horse .

[LMS2968]

The answers here on Page 127 of Michael R Bailey and John Glithero's The Engineering and History of Rocket (2000) National Railway Museum, York ISBN 1 900747 18 9. It suggests via Robert Stannard that the smokebox was fitted some time in November 1830 during repairs from an accident on Chat Moss. The reason was to ease the removal of smokebox char and also to allow a greater volume of it to be carried before this removal became imperative. It would also have smoothed out the pulses from the blastpipe giving a more constant vacuum.

 

It's worth mentioning that both Novelty and San Pareil exceeded the Rainhill Trials requirements, but only for short periods. Their problems were more to do with reliability over a long distance, and in the latter case excess weight, a lack of springs and spark throwing.