smokebox Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) How about this. I think it should work. Edit. Not on dc!!! Edited February 13 by smokebox Dumb error Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 5 minutes ago, smokebox said: How about this. I think it should work. Only where "power" = AC. Nothing happens with DC. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokebox Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Yep, just realised where Its wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 Seems to me from what has been discussed my error was ordering a 3 position 2NO 2NC rather than a 2 position 2NO 2NC I have some of the 'standard' type switches that people use on their way but the only reason I didn't choose these in the first place is because I wanted something a bit more 'fancy' so to speak I am still going to order some of the 2 Position 2NO 2NC type ones as presently the layout doesn't have any track down once again so no great rush for them arriving I'm sure if those don't do the job I'll find uses for them elsewhere Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted February 13 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13 9 minutes ago, sulzer71 said: Seems to me from what has been discussed my error was ordering a 3 position 2NO 2NC rather than a 2 position 2NO 2NC I have some of the 'standard' type switches that people use on their way but the only reason I didn't choose these in the first place is because I wanted something a bit more 'fancy' so to speak I am still going to order some of the 2 Position 2NO 2NC type ones as presently the layout doesn't have any track down once again so no great rush for them arriving I'm sure if those don't do the job I'll find uses for them elsewhere @5BarVT's post from the previous page says how you could wire your switches up, connecting the Tortoise to the C terminals and the power supply to the NO and NC terminals. However, before you do that, I suggest you run a set of tests, either with a multimeter or with a power supply and device (like you did earlier, using just the pins on one side at a time), and noting what happens with all combinations of pins and switch positions. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 3 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said: @5BarVT's post from the previous page says how you could wire your switches up, connecting the Tortoise to the C terminals and the power supply to the NO and NC terminals. However, before you do that, I suggest you run a set of tests, either with a multimeter or with a power supply and device (like you did earlier, using just the pins on one side at a time), and noting what happens with all combinations of pins and switch positions. I will look into this also Jeremy , thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 I'm now starting to wonder if I am connecting this switch incorrectly , I have seen diagrams where this type of switch did not have the negative feed from the power supply connected to it at all , it went straight out to the negative side of the device , the switch had one connection to the common post and that was a positive feed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted February 14 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14 22 minutes ago, sulzer71 said: I'm now starting to wonder if I am connecting this switch incorrectly , I have seen diagrams where this type of switch did not have the negative feed from the power supply connected to it at all , it went straight out to the negative side of the device , the switch had one connection to the common post and that was a positive feed? For a Tortoise point motor with an ordinary 12V dc power supply, you need to switch both positive and negative. If you are using the switch to power something that is either on or off, then you only need to switch positive or negative, and it does not matter which. In the test you described earlier, you were switching the negative side. Although you mentioned connecting the positive side to one of the switch pins, this was not actually doing anything, and it need not have been connected to the switch at all: On 13/02/2024 at 08:33, sulzer71 said: I have got one switch to do a normal function (turn on power to something) , for this I have wired a negative feed to the bottom left common post , then one from the same side of the NO to negative side of the device that needs switching on , my positive feed goes to the right pin on the NO and then to the device , I've found that you can do this on either side of the switch Turn the switch right and device switches on , turn it centre it's off , turn it left and nothing happens When you do the same but on the NC pins it turns device on when switched to the left but also stays on when in the centre position , turn it right and the device goes off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 36 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said: For a Tortoise point motor with an ordinary 12V dc power supply, you need to switch both positive and negative. If you are using the switch to power something that is either on or off, then you only need to switch positive or negative, and it does not matter which. In the test you described earlier, you were switching the negative side. Although you mentioned connecting the positive side to one of the switch pins, this was not actually doing anything, and it need not have been connected to the switch at all: Thanks Jeremy , apart from simple bus wires I'm not clued up on electronics too much , I seriously think there's no possibility that this type of switch can be wired to reverse the polarity I'm going to order some of the 2 position 2NO 2NC type without the centre off , if they don't do the job then I'll have to resort to using the 'standard' type switch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted February 14 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14 (edited) If you've got the 3-position version of the switch then the normal crossover wiring for a DPDT to reverse polarity is already built into the switch. So have you tried this: [Deleted incorrect diagram] The centre off position will connect both Tortoise power connections to either 0V or +12V, which is fine. Edited February 14 by Harlequin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 3 minutes ago, Harlequin said: If you've got the 3-position version of the switch then the normal crossover wiring for a DPDT to reverse polarity is already built into the switch. So have you tried this: The centre off position will connect both Tortoise power connections to either 0V or +12V, which is fine. I have indeed tried this configuration to no avail , throws the tortoise one way but then you need to switch the positive and negative to throw it the other way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted February 14 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Harlequin said: If you've got the 3-position version of the switch then the normal crossover wiring for a DPDT to reverse polarity is already built into the switch. So have you tried this: The centre off position will connect both Tortoise power connections to either 0V or +12V, which is fine. The other way round, surely. The red wire to both NO terminals and the black wire to both NC terminals (or vice versa). @sulzer71's already shown that one side works as an SPDT. Edited February 14 by Jeremy Cumberland 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 I'll give this configuration another try this evening Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 7 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said: The other way round, surely. The red wire to both NO terminals and the black wire to both NC terminals (or vice versa). @sulzer71's already shown that one side works as an SPDT. Jeremy , that is one configuration I haven't tried funnily enough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted February 14 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said: The other way round, surely. The red wire to both NO terminals and the black wire to both NC terminals (or vice versa). @sulzer71's already shown that one side works as an SPDT. Yes, you're right. This: Edited February 14 by Harlequin 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 6 minutes ago, Harlequin said: Yes, you're right. This: Cheers , will give this a try this evening For the LED side of things I'm thinking it will be possible to place a jumper across from one of the positive and one of the negative feeds? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted February 14 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14 (edited) 20 minutes ago, sulzer71 said: Cheers , will give this a try this evening For the LED side of things I'm thinking it will be possible to place a jumper across from one of the positive and one of the negative feeds? It isn't clear how the LEDs are powered or switched. The page you link to in the very first post in this thread shows a different style of switch (an SPDT with red and green LEDs), with three pins to control the LED switching, which appears to be independent of the switch position. Do your switches have one colour of LED or two? If they have just one colour, my guess is that this lights when you connect the positive output from your power supply to the + terminal and the negative supply to the - terminal, and the switch position does not matter. If they have two colours, then perhaps connecting the power supply to the + and - terminals the other way round will make it light in the second colour. Conceivably some other pair of pins will light an LED, especially if there is more than one colour. I suggest you experiment and see what you need to do to get the LED or LEDs to illuminate. Also, please tell us when you want the LED to be lit. All the time, or just with the points set one way? Edited February 14 by Jeremy Cumberland Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said: It isn't clear how the LEDs are powered or switched. The page you link to in the very first post in this thread shows a different style of switch (an SPDT with red and green LEDs), with three pins to control the LED switching, which appears to be independent of the switch position. Do your switches have one colour of LED or two? If they have just one colour, my guess is that this lights when you connect the positive output from your power supply to the + terminal and the negative supply to the - terminal, and the switch position does not matter. If they have two colours, then perhaps connecting the power supply to the + and - terminals the other way round will make it light in the second colour. Conceivably some other pair of pins will light an LED, especially if there is more than one colour. I suggest you experiment and see what you need to do to get the LED or LEDs to illuminate. Also, please tell us when you want the LED to be lit. All the time, or just with the points set one way? Jeremy , it's the ones later in my post not from the beginning so just separate positive and negative feeds although on the switch I have used to turn on some lights I have that wired so it will only come on when the switch is on so will need to experiment possibly to get that to function in the same manner As below Edited February 14 by sulzer71 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 17 hours ago, Harlequin said: Yes, you're right. This: You sir are a star! works as required , even managed to add 2 bi colour LED's into the circuit as I wanted to see if I was capable of doing that , connection to switch illumination left off until it's fitted to the facia Thanks again VID_20240215_072335.mp4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted February 15 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15 Great! I thought that a wiring diagram showing the actual back of the switch would help because it's an unconventional device. And thanks to @Jeremy Cumberland for pointing out my initial mistake. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 The help from everyone has been invaluable , think I'm going to look at the illumination of the switch itself which I managed to get working from jumping a positive and negative feed to but wouldn't mind seeing if I could rig it so it's on when switched left or right but off in the centre position Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted February 15 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15 (edited) 51 minutes ago, sulzer71 said: The help from everyone has been invaluable , think I'm going to look at the illumination of the switch itself which I managed to get working from jumping a positive and negative feed to but wouldn't mind seeing if I could rig it so it's on when switched left or right but off in the centre position The internal LED (LEDs, plural?) is connected to one of the C common pins and the switch includes a resistor for the LED (that's what the voltage ratings on the side are about). So, assuming that the switch is rated 12V, I think that bridging from one of the NC or NO pins (i.e. to 0v or +12v) to one or both of the LED pins should do the job. If the LED comes on in the wrong sense, connect to the other C pin. Scrub that. It's wrong. Edited February 15 by Harlequin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted February 15 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15 If it is just one LED, I'd be inclined to connect one C pin to + and the other C pin to -. If the LED comes on for the wrong position, simply cross these wires over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 Yes it's just a single colour LED on the Halo ring of the switch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted February 15 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15 28 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said: If it is just one LED, I'd be inclined to connect one C pin to + and the other C pin to -. If the LED comes on for the wrong position, simply cross these wires over. Yes, my previous suggestion was wrong. I think the two LED connectors are simple + and - across the internal LED and there's no internal connection to other parts of the switch. Sorry, the way the product is described on AliExpress is a bit confusing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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