What is the optimum size for an 00 gauge transportable layout?

[Robin Brasher]

For me the ideal size for a transportable layout is a layout that can be carried by one person in a small hatchback.  Metric sizes don't mean much to me but it is possible to fit an 00 gauge layout on a 4' 6'' x 3' 3" board with a couple of sidings inside. This does not give much operational interest.

 

My friend has more loading space in his car so he can fit a 5' x 4' layout in his car. He has got a Hornby Dublo 3-rail layout so it is double track with radius 1 curves and points on the inside.  There is a goods yard and a turntable with an engine shed. The layout holds our club's attention at our meetings in the evening and we run Pacific locomotives with four or five coaches. We need two people to unload it but he manages to load it into his car alone.

 

Anything larger than that takes longer to build, unload and set up.

[Harlequin]

Most transportable layouts are made of several modular boards, not a single board.

Then it's a question of the volume available in the car, not simple width by length.

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Harlequin

[Dungrange]

Optimum is subjective as it depends on your priorities.  What is most important: operational interest; fitting in your car; able to be loaded and unloaded by one person; having a continuous run; having a quick set up time?  You'll get a different answer depending on how you prioritise such things and what constraints you set.

 

As @Harlequin says, most layouts consist of several modular boards bolted together, so when you attend a model railway exhibition you'll see plenty of transportable layouts, many of which are 00.  I understand that one of the layouts being exhibited at Model Rail Scotland in February 2024 is being delivered to the exhibition hall in a 44 tonne articulated truck!  That's not 00 and presumably won't meet your thoughts on optimum.  I don't think the layout would fit in my house even if I could remove all the internal walls!  However, the layout is transportable.

 

There is an obvious trade off between operational interest and set up time.  If you want a fast set up time, then the layout has to be small and operationally uninteresting.  My project for next year is to build a transportable layout in 00.  It will be not far short of 14' in length, but to fit in the boot of my estate car, it will have to break down into five separate boards.  In theory, I should be able to set it up on my own, but even with the layout in the back, there should be enough room for three passengers in the car.  Loading and unloading will be a bit of a jigsaw puzzle though and I hope I have my measurements and calculations right.

[The Johnster]

Peice of string question.

 

As George Gershwin said, it ain' nes'ar'ly so.  Check out Rob Gunton's (NHY581) sheep layouts, self-contained, single board with a very basic fiddle stick attached, beautifully presented, and plenty to do to operate them!  The trade-off is between layout size and set-up time.

 

'Transportable' needs defining.  I have designed Cwmdimbath to be principally a permanently erected layout, as I have no wish to exhibit it, but as a concession to the fact that I live in rented accommodation and cannot absolutely guarantee security of tenure, it can be dismantled and moved if this becomes necessary.  It is free-standing and not attached to any part of the property, but is a BLT backed on to the walls of it's room. 

 

The value of this approach was proved about two years after I started it, when the then landlord decided to fully refurbish all the flats in the building prior to selling it.  As it happened, the flat across the hallway from mine was empty and I was moved into it, complete with layout in sections, for three weeks until the work in my flat was completed,  Took about a day to dismantle and nearly a week to put back up and repair the inevitable minor board-end damage.  I hope I never have to do it again, but the principle is proven and I know that, if needed, I can do it again! 

 

My view is that properly transportable layouts should be built on module 4'x2' ply boards with framing, for lightness and strength, and cross-join electrical connections made/broken with some sort of plug/socket method.  Boards should be aligned with metal buffer plates and adjustable bolts with wingnuts. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by The Johnster

[Jeff Smith]

It sounds as though you are talking about a roundy layout rather than out and back.....  4'x2' boards can be a bit heavy and unmanageable.  However 2 boards arranged side by side with 2 end boards would give you 8'x4'.  18" radius curves would give you space outside and inside for sidings etc.  Having pairs of same-size boards allows you to transport them face to face with end boards.  Supporting a layout like this will need some sort of cross-braced legs like modified saw-horses.  Track design will need to allow for board joints and use quick-connect electrical plugs and sockets like hifi din connectors.

[Dunalastair]

4 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

 4'x2' boards can be a bit heavy and unmanageable.  

 

If weight is the limit, then dense foam based boards might be better for standalone boards (and help avoid ricked backs), though edges (or at least corners) might need protection. A downside is that power feed droppers can be more difficult to arrange - grooves in the surface might work better. I'm not sure about joining multiple foam-based boards - any suggestions?

[DavidB-AU]

I would strongly suggest looking at the construction of the Heart of Georgia layout.

 

https://hogrr.blogspot.com/

 

Although HO American outline, the construction method is not difficult and it breaks down into 4 easy to transport/store sections. When you consider that a 5x4 layout need 2' of access space around all sides, the actual amount of floor space it requires is more like 9x8'. An 8x4 needs 12x8' of floor space. Using that floor space and putting the access space inside allows a much longer run of main line, gentler curves and realistic operation.

Edited December 24, 2023 by DavidB-AU

[Chris M]

The start point is to measure your car. Then build boards that will fit. You then of course will change your car before you take your layout anywhere, but that's life.

 

I built a 7ft by 3ft 6in N gauge layout on two boards that would fit most hatchbacks. One thing to watch out for is the width between the wheelarches. That is usually the narrowest point of a loadspace and if you make your layout boards wider than that you will have a problem. You will also need to have room to carry legs, controllers, stock, tool box etc.

 

My current layout is 12ft long and needs a transit to move it. Most exhibition managers were ok with that but I haven't done any one day shows.  The great thing about N is that you can get so much more in than you can in 00.

 

Many years ago I used an Allergo estate to move my 9'6" by 7'6" 00 layout around. Because of the shape of the Allegro (a bit like a hearse) and the wide space between the wheelarches the layout fitted fine, tight but fine. So all of this lot can fit into a car if you buy the right one - an Allegro is probably not a good idea nowadays though! The one I had was old and used as a second car and to take the layout to exhibitions. It did it's job well enough.

[RobinofLoxley]

I have it only as an outline plan, but I have been giving some though as to what I would do for a project once my loft layout is fully operational, and I am just filling it with landscaping stuff, much of which is already built. I constructed a test rig based on a single spare oak laminate plank which is about 4 feet by 10 inches and have decided eventually to make a layout using several of those planks or similar, that will fit in my car, so I could exhibit. I can either have a basic branch line layout in OO or something much more elaborate in N or TT. These planks dont warp so any frames will be to conceal and protect operational stuff underneath, so while they arent light I won't increase the weight too much by building on them. I could go up to 20' in length that way. Is that optimum, I dont know.

[AndyB]

Not forgetting that you'd need to leave room in the car for so e kind of supporting legs to bring the baseboards up to a sensible viewing height.  

And a long list of ancillary bits and bobs, e.g. stock boxes, lighting rig, running repair kit, overnight bag...

 

[Andy Hayter]

6 hours ago, Dunalastair said:

 

If weight is the limit, then dense foam based boards might be better for standalone boards (and help avoid ricked backs), though edges (or at least corners) might need protection. A downside is that power feed droppers can be more difficult to arrange - grooves in the surface might work better. I'm not sure about joining multiple foam-based boards - any suggestions?

 

 

Wooden ends protruding below or out of the sides where bolts and or dowels can be used to hold tight and align.  This also acts as protection for the foam board.

[Jeff Smith]

2 hours ago, AndyB said:

Not forgetting that you'd need to leave room in the car for so e kind of supporting legs to bring the baseboards up to a sensible viewing height.  

And a long list of ancillary bits and bobs, e.g. stock boxes, lighting rig, running repair kit, overnight bag...

 

Back in the eighties before I moved to the US I had an OO exhibition branch terminal.  Two scenic 4'x2' boards and a same size sector plate.  All three were bolted together for transportation using two end boards (with allowance for track ends).  The 4 stands were arranged under the ends and the board joins.  They were cross-braced in both directions and were remarkably steady.  It fitted in my Ambassador and went to several exhibitions.  The boards were 1/2" fibre board braced with 3"x1" timber.  Lighting was a single flood on a 6' pole at one end.

 

Exhibiting as a solo is quite difficult - it pays to have one or two assistants to help set-up etc., and to operate while you take a walk around the other layouts......

[TheQ]

Remember, It has to..

Go through standard doorways, with your hands holding it.

Through the access way into the car, that's often smaller than the volume inside.

It has to be light enough to lift, but strong enough for being humped around.

 

For example...

Our car has 48 inch wide, 39 inch deep, 45 inch high space inside....but...

But the wheel arches and door handles take space out of that and....

The rear hatch is only 22 inches high and about 36 inch wide. ...but..

The lock on the rear hatch takes another inch out of the height...

It has rear side doors ... But. .

They don't open out beyond 45 degrees, 

 

The MRC club house has a standard 30 inch wide door opening.... But 

The door doesn't open out clear, so take another 4 inches off of that..

 

It's the gotchyas that you have to watch out for..

 

Anyway after considering the layout for our car.

It's two folding sections each 17 inches wide, each 3ft long.

Each folds out to be therefore 6ft long, so it could be, if chosen, a 12ft long 17 inch wide layout. But each of the sections can only be 20inches high when folded, including legs. Though I've chosen to arrange them in use in an L shape.

 

The rolling stock case, control panel and the clip on wheels  to transport the layout, have to slip in a side door on top of the layouts and be secured,  so they don't visit the driver.

Curtains will be rolled up in the rear foot wells.

 

Oh and the limited tests so far have shown it can be assembled / disassembled in 15 minutes.

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by TheQ

[RobinofLoxley]

1 hour ago, Jeff Smith said:

Back in the eighties before I moved to the US I had an OO exhibition branch terminal.  Two scenic 4'x2' boards and a same size sector plate.  All three were bolted together for transportation using two end boards (with allowance for track ends).  The 4 stands were arranged under the ends and the board joins.  They were cross-braced in both directions and were remarkably steady.  It fitted in my Ambassador and went to several exhibitions.  The boards were 1/2" fibre board braced with 3"x1" timber.  Lighting was a single flood on a 6' pole at one end.

 

Exhibiting as a solo is quite difficult - it pays to have one or two assistants to help set-up etc., and to operate while you take a walk around the other layouts......

You had an Ambassador!! I'm amazed you ever got to an exhibition in it! But mine did take a 3-piece suite one time

[Jeff Smith]

2 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

You had an Ambassador!! I'm amazed you ever got to an exhibition in it! But mine did take a 3-piece suite one time

Yes, I traded my Princess.  It was automatic, a nice car but I kept having to change oil pressure sensors which seemed to fail often.....the one time I ignored it the engine siezed.  Also fitted a manual choke.  I sold it for a song when moving to the States!

[fulton]

On transport, some years ago a freind had a Mini Clubman estate, his layout was made to fit,on the way to an exhibition along the M4 on a very wet night, he noted a car on the hard shoulder with a puncher, he then thought where was his spare wheel, to his horror he realised that to get to it the whole layout would have to come out! after that the spare wheel travelled in the passenger foot well.

[Michael Hodgson]

10 hours ago, Chris M said:

an Allegro is probably not a good idea nowadays though! The one I had was old and used as a second car and to take the layout to exhibitions. It did it's job well enough.

 

It wasn't a good idea when they were built.  They deserved the name "All Aggro"

 

My 1275cc model (it was the same engine block as the 1100 but bored out to a larger diameter) kept blowing between cylinder 2 & 3 because they were too close together, and I became adept at removing the cylinder head at the roadside.  But at least there was enough space in the engine compartment for me to climb into it to do that job.

[DCB]

 A size of around 4ft X 2ft  1200nmm X 600mm is quite manageable my 4ft X 3ft 3" test track certainly is not with a massive 1/2 " or so ply base  C.J Freezer's Minories is a good example of a portable layout as it hinges back on itself from the middle with hinges well above track level.   I would suggest following this example and  have something well above track level to take loads if another baseboard is placed on it and protect scenery . .    Sound design  is the key to portable layouts,  maybe use adjustable trestles which engage with the baseboards supports rather than legs,  I thoroughly  dislike thick ply sheets as a table top due to weight, but as framing it makes a lot of sense especially with lots of lightening holes which can slash weight with little or no reduction in strength

 

Cars

 

Wow   Austin Ambassador, father in Law had one, points melted.      Austin all Aggro    Rear wheels were held on by one single nut and sometimes came off.     and Mini 1275 / 1100.    My  specialised subject nearly  I worked in a British Leyland dealership   I had a really fast 1275 metro,  Standard non MG cam, MG carb, exhaust manifolds and air cleaner and a 1600R series Maestro carb needle.  It was  torquey but ran out of revs at 7000 rpm It even ticked over and didn't bog down changing into 4th   Even bog standard The MG Metro  went over 8000 which was not hugely useful on the road.  BL never used that spec my Metro had  and it was the best Metro I ever drove.     I did the same with an 1100 Mini  engine putting Metro carb and manifolds on, it really went at town speeds , great torque not ideal on the motorway  too low geared.

6 hours ago, fulton said:

On transport, some years ago a freind had a Mini Clubman estate, his layout was made to fit,on the way to an exhibition along the M4 on a very wet night, he noted a car on the hard shoulder with a puncher, he then thought where was his spare wheel, to his horror he realised that to get to it the whole layout would have to come out! after that the spare wheel travelled in the passenger foot well.

Spare wheel,  getting everything out would take a fraction of the time getting a modern spare wheel less car's wheel off and  taken to a tyre shop and and new tyre fitted  Turns a minor nuisance into a catastrophe.   I have always sourced a spare wheel and jack when purchasing a car,

 

 

[TheQ]

The reason the Allegro wheels were coming off was mechanics not reading the the manual.

The old Austin Morris 1100 had a castle nut to be torqued up to 60lbs then the split pin inserted... 

The mechanics kept doing that to Allegros, but their castle nut was only supposed to be 5lbs then backed off just enough to insert the split pin....

Because the mechanics kept doing Allegros to 60 lbs they suffered from crushed nuts wheel bearings.

 

Once had an Allegros wheel pass me on the M74, as I slowed to go into the services, luckily it wasn't my car. The allegro followed me in " Three wheels on my wagon "

[AndyB]

My current layout breaks down into 3 baseboards, each one is 2'6" deep and between 3 and 4 feet in length. I dud this just in case a house move were ever on the cards and with a vague idea to exhibit it.

Things I learnt...

1) The open-framed baseboard constructed from timber and ply I already had is far too heavy. Top marks for upcycling but "Could do better" for practicality.

2) The backscene is going to be quite tall making each module quite tricky to manoeuvre without causing damage.

3) If I wanted to exhibit a layout I'd probably build one for home use only and a small, lightweight layout (as per @DCB's suggestion) that uses the same rolling stock for exhibition purposes. Or possibly something a completely different genre. 

4) If giving lots of people the chance to see your layout is the driver then consider a YouTube channel.

 

The Allegro: this was the 2nd car I inherited from my dad. I actually quite liked it. Its only qwerk towards the end was the starter motor kept sticking. The guys in the workshop at work gave me a lump hammer with which to "tap" it with each time it stuck, which was most mornings and evenings! This happened so often that eventually the bonnet release cable broke. We parted company at 130k miles. Its replacement was a Ford Escort which was probably the worst car purchase I ever made.   

[fulton]

4 hours ago, AndyB said:

@DCB

The Allegro: this was the 2nd car I inherited from my dad. I actually quite liked it. Its only qwerk towards the end was the starter motor kept sticking.

My first company car was an early Allegro, complete with odd steering wheel, basic mechanics seemed sound it was all the things bolted on that failed, speedo, wiper motor, dynamo, water pump and starter, a good car let down by poor quality control.

[Jeff Smith]

We have drifted somewhat but just have to mention a series of YouTube videos by Big Car dealing with the histories of most British and some foreign cars bought in the UK.  Very enlightening!

[DCB]

13 hours ago, fulton said:

My first company car was an early Allegro, complete with odd steering wheel, basic mechanics seemed sound it was all the things bolted on that failed, speedo, wiper motor, dynamo, water pump and starter, a good car let down by poor quality control.

It was a bad car designed by idiots to appeal to people who wouldn't be seen dead  in an Austin anyway , the good bits were common to the 1100/1300 which had far more interior space and the metro,  the  (4 door) 11/1300 needed a front mounted radiator and electric fan and a ballast resistor coil,  not a supremely ugly smaller more expensive replacement       Stupidly enough the end of the line Allegro1750  sport was a very good  car, 5 speed good torque,  reasonable handling, round steering wheel  but the  public had lost faith .   Adrian Newey (Red Bull etc) had a brief expose to BL according to his book and wisely ran a mile

[fulton]

Maybe it was a bad car, but I never felt unsafe driving one, unlike the Morris Marina, the only car I ever lost control of and it almost killed me, a touch of the brakes on a damp road and it was gone, cars have improved alot, even my current van has better handling.

[Jeff Smith]

Front wheel drive against rear - that was probably the difference.....